What would your D&D stats be?

[Evie]

Miracle of the day: you and I agree on something.

I'm fine with the number of skills in DnD ; using the same in mine. Actually, arguably, using FAR fewer in mine, because all weapons and tools proficiencies get rolled into skills and I still only have 18 skills (though I may end up upping the count - I could see going up to the 21-24 range. Even so, again, that's the whole category of weapons/armors/tools proficiencies that I don't have at all).

The current set of skill is Athletics, Communication, Computer, Crafting, Crime & Law, Hand to Hand combat ; Investigation, Knowledge, Medical, Melee Weapons, Performing, Occultism, Ranged Weapons, Science, Social, Tactics, Trekking, Wild Card (up to any one skill not covered in those that the players want to convince the GM to allow).

I don't object to the number of skills in DnD (though I object to the selection). It's the handling of them. "You either have a skill or you don't ; if you do add your fixed proficiency bonus which is the same across the board, if you don't, don't"? Yeah, no. Not a fan.

 

[JollyRoger]

My dice seem to be stuck on 6. Is that bad?

J

You are rolling Obamas?

 

[Harv]

You are rolling Obamas?

No. Then he would be rolling O's.

 

[Evie]

Nah, I'm pretty sure rolling only sixes on 3d6 qualifies too.

 

[Harv]

It still looks like there is a wide variety of opinions on the definition of average.

Say a (human male) character with 12 Strength, 12 Dexterity, and 12 Constitution walks into a modern day gym. Does he turn heads? What about if you changed one of those numbers from 12 to 14?

Since there has been so much conversation about Strength, (easiest to quantify) I have another question: If we made an xy plot, maximum 1-Rep deadlift as a function of percentile, it should make some sort of curve. What does it look like? Does anybody have data? (Seen Strength Standards chart for various lifts that Zelig linked.)

Another note: In the earlier versions of the game, it is assumed that the adventurers have been training regularly in their field and have reached their potential. So when you rolled an ability score, you were pretty much stuck with it. Gym training would have a dramatic effect on the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of, say, a typical CFC user.

 

[Steph]

That's why in the RPG system I designed years ago I used a different approach.
The stats such as Strength determined your "natual potential", and then you could train in a skill (like musculation). And the actual effect was a combination of both.
So a tall heavy guy has a strength of 7, he doesn't train, he can lift 70
A smaller guy has a strength of 6, he doesn't train, he can lift 60. He decides to train to the max until he can each 120. So more than the taller guy. But if the other trains to the max, he could lift 140

Figures here are just to explain the principle.

Oh, and stats or skills where from 0 to 10 for a human. And when you had to test, you rolled 2d5 (i.e. 2d6 numbered 0-5). I think it is better than d20 because you have more chance to get an average result, and extrem results (critics) are not too common.

 

[Evie]

LArgely the same in my system. Strength is raw potential ; athletics is getting good at it. Very heavy training might improve your potential a little (stats are not 100% set in stone), but by and large changes after character creation will boost skills, not stats.

Plus skills are on a 0-10 scale (1 is novice, 2 is amateur, 5 is professional, 7+ is world-clas vs stats on a 1-6(7) scale for human characters (1-6 normaly, but you can go up to one stat at 7 for generational talents using certain character-building decisions)

(I'd say a STR 12 CON 12 character does not turn heads but some people may take note of how much he or she is lifting. STR 14 Con 12 (or vice-versa) very well might get more notice.

 

[Zelig]

I'm not so picky about enforcing long-term continuity, it's easier to just retcon stuff as required, so measuring the difference between potential and current stats isn't of any value to me.

One of my groups just retconned a character from female to male.

And when you had to test, you rolled 2d5 (i.e. 2d6 numbered 0-5). I think it is better than d20 because you have more chance to get an average result

That's only relevant with respect to the distribution of what you're rolling against though. For any individual roll, you only have probabilities of pass/fail (unless your system has something other than this) - the actual distributions within pass/fail don't matter. The difference in crits matters, but you can get the same pass/fail odds with any number/size of dice given an arbitrary number to beat.

 

[Steph]

Yes, in my system the importance it not to pass/fail, but the margin.
For example, the higher the margin, the more powerfull a spell.

If you use a skill to build a weapon, a better margin means better quality, and so on

 

[Evie]

It's probably easier form a design perspective to set average difficulties of different tasks (and figure out what is difficult and what isn't) with bell curves rather than linear probabilities, because extreme outliers are less likely. When 40% of rolls are either very low (4 or less) or very high (17 or more), that's a lof extreme rolls.

A 2D10 roll by comparison has 17% odds of the same number. Still perhaps higher than I'd like, but still valid.

And yep, margin-based system here too. (Which greatly simplify attack rolls - the margin of success on your attack roll plus the weapon's damage modifier is what determines how much damage you do)

 

[Harv]

Okay, finally I will bite:

Basic D&D Rules, 1981.

Strength 12 - Deadlift PR is 385 pounds. I will call when I hit 390.
Dexterity 9 - I break this down into 2 Flexibility, 3 Agility, and 4 Handwork.
Constitution 12 - I break this down into 4 Size, 4 Health, and 4 VO2.
Intelligence 16 - Not sure how to break this one down, based on ease of academic achievement.
Wisdom 9 - I broke this down into 2 Spirituality, 4 Guidance, 3 Discipline.
Charisma 9 - I broke this down into 3's, Grace and Charm, Aura, and Personality.

No armor for me? So give me a Dagger and a Pointy Hat and tell me to flame those Goblins, not my fellow CFCers. Maybe the d4 was kind to me and I get 4hp! One more Constitution point would have made that 5 and we might have a chance at surviving a hit somewhere. One more Strength point and you would have been wondering why I did not reduce that to 9 and increase Intelligence to 18.

I suppose an Elf would work too. Then I would get Plate Mail and a Shield and a Sword, and hopefully 6 hit points. Hide behind the Fighter with a Bow and Arrow?

One spell in the Spell Book. Hmm. Charm Person? The girls avoid me like the plague? Problem solved.

I never actually played this old variation of D&D in any detail, just hack and slash. Therefore as a kid I had a bias for Fighters. Maybe I had to make up for something.

The odds of making it to Level 2 are entirely dependent on how good the Fighter is, correct? Magic-User had to make it to Level 5 before being able to do anything?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Okay, finally I will bite:

Basic D&D Rules, 1981.

Strength 12 - Deadlift PR is 385 pounds. I will call when I hit 390.
Dexterity 9 - I break this down into 2 Flexibility, 3 Agility, and 4 Handwork.
Constitution 12 - I break this down into 4 Size, 4 Health, and 4 VO2.
Intelligence 16 - Not sure how to break this one down, based on ease of academic achievement.
Wisdom 9 - I broke this down into 2 Spirituality, 4 Guidance, 3 Discipline.
Charisma 9 - I broke this down into 3's, Grace and Charm, Aura, and Personality.

No armor for me? So give me a Dagger and a Pointy Hat and tell me to flame those Goblins, not my fellow CFCers. Maybe the d4 was kind to me and I get 4hp! One more Constitution point would have made that 5 and we might have a chance at surviving a hit somewhere. One more Strength point and you would have been wondering why I did not reduce that to 9 and increase Intelligence to 18.

I suppose an Elf would work too. Then I would get Plate Mail and a Shield and a Sword, and hopefully 6 hit points. Hide behind the Fighter with a Bow and Arrow?

One spell in the Spell Book. Hmm. Charm Person? The girls avoid me like the plague? Problem solved.

I never actually played this old variation of D&D in any detail, just hack and slash. Therefore as a kid I had a bias for Fighters. Maybe I had to make up for something.

The odds of making it to Level 2 are entirely dependent on how good the Fighter is, correct? Magic-User had to make it to Level 5 before being able to do anything?

If I can only have one spell, that one is Sleep. There are so many useful things you can do with it, including something I read in a Guardians of the Flame novel: When you're in a fight for your life and you've only got one or two spells, either put the enemy to sleep or turn invisible, and then kill him. I remember how shocked some people in my D&D group were when I did that, and they promptly asked, "What is your alignment?"

The way I see it, if it's kill or be killed, do it the most efficient way possible that's least likely to put yourself or anyone else in the party in harm's way. I was playing a first-level magic-user, so that's one of the reasons we survived that fight.

 

[Harv]

If I can only have one spell, that one is Sleep. There are so many useful things you can do with it, including something I read in a Guardians of the Flame novel: When you're in a fight for your life and you've only got one or two spells, either put the enemy to sleep or turn invisible, and then kill him.

Thanks for the advice on surviving Level 1!

You said before you played Second Edition Vanilla D&D? When I think about it, you are correct that Sleep is the spell to take to survive to Level 2. It turns one tough fight into an easy win. Hobgoblins counted as 1 Hit Die even though their Hit Points were d8+1, correct? So one sleep spell per day turns one tough fight into an easy win - And the Magic-User saves the day.

I remember how shocked some people in my D&D group were when I did that, and they promptly asked, "What is your alignment?"

Lawful. Very much so. Nothing in the Player's Hand Book said putting your enemies to sleep and then killing them is a Chaotic act. Nothing in the Player's hand book says turning Invisible and killing your opponent is a Chaotic act. Striking below the belt in a ring fight where the rules are agreed upon with the intention of slowing your opponent down while getting away with a mere warning is - but not so in a dungeon situation.

The way I see it, if it's kill or be killed, do it the most efficient way possible that's least likely to put yourself or anyone else in the party in harm's way. I was playing a first-level magic-user, so that's one of the reasons we survived that fight.

The first part sounds like a Neutral response. The part in bold sounds like a Lawful response.

 

[bhavv]

But what if the enemy resists / saves / is immune to your sleep spell?

 

[gay_Aleks]

Then you throw a dice for an Agility save to run your ass off outta there.

 

[Steph]

If I can only have one spell, that one is Sleep. There are so many useful things you can do with it, including something I read in a Guardians of the Flame novel: When you're in a fight for your life and you've only got one or two spells, either put the enemy to sleep or turn invisible, and then kill him. I remember how shocked some people in my D&D group were when I did that, and they promptly asked, "What is your alignment?"

The way I see it, if it's kill or be killed, do it the most efficient way possible that's least likely to put yourself or anyone else in the party in harm's way. I was playing a first-level magic-user, so that's one of the reasons we survived that fight.

Another useful spell, I don't know the name in English. In French it's "injonction". You can give an order with ONE word, and the guy obeys it.
If threatened by a large force, target the leader, use the spell, and the word is "Surrender". It can create quite a confusion to let you escape, especially if the force is from a people used to a strong hierarchy.

I'd say it's more evil than chaotic. You can make them sleep, and then bind them or flee.

 

[Harv]

But what if the enemy resists / saves / is immune to your sleep spell?

2e Basic Set: 2d8 Hit Dice of creatures go to sleep. No save. I think the target must be a Humanoid, and no bigger than an Ogre. Smallest (by Hit Dice) creatures go to sleep first. So if you have a group of Goblins and an Ogre, the Goblins go to sleep first. Undead definitely immune.

Another useful spell, I don't know the name in English. In French it's "injonction". You can give an order with ONE word, and the guy obeys it.
If threatened by a large force, target the leader, use the spell, and the word is "Surrender". It can create quite a confusion to let you escape, especially if the force is from a people used to a strong hierarchy.

It might be Command. It does not exist in 2e Basic Rules which I was citing.

I'd say it's more evil than chaotic. You can make them sleep, and then bind them or flee.

Depends on circumstances.

 

[bhavv]

Command is just a crowd control that forces the enemies to lie prone if they fail a will save.

If a large group I approaching, just cast mass hold / web / fear or similar CCs.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

But what if the enemy resists / saves / is immune to your sleep spell?

Then you get out of the way so the Fighter, Cleric, and Elf can hopefully fight the enemy. Or if circumstances allow, you might still be able to fight with a dagger or quarterstaff.

As I recall, we were fighting the enemy near a bridge that crossed a very deep chasm, and we had to get across the bridge. Since we were a 1st-level party, I didn't feel at all guilty for using dirty (but legal, within-the-rules) tricks.

 

[Harv]

Then you get out of the way so the Fighter, Cleric, and Elf can hopefully fight the enemy. Or if circumstances allow, you might still be able to fight with a dagger or quarterstaff.

Dorf! You forgot the Dorf! Clang! Clang! Clang! goes the Dorf! My buddy who played a lot of 2e D&D and 2e AD&D was 195 cm and I have never seen him play anything more than 135 cm, maybe to compensate for something.

I am struggling to remember the 2e Basic Level 1 Spell List. There were 12 spells, but I only remember 9 of them.

Spoiler :

1. Charm Person
2. Detect Magic
3. Floating Disk
4. Light
5. Magic Missile
6. Read Language
7. Read Magic
8. Shield
9. Sleep

Protection from Evil?