When was the apex of [American] power?
- Thread starter RedRalph
- Start date
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Relative or absolute power? And, what kind of power?
This is an important distinction.
Rating power is sort of tough. For example, for the British Empire, it was the largest in the inter-war period but it was far from having the absolute military superiority it had on the high seas in the past.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Also they occupied most of Eastern Europe, but that again assumes we mean "power" as "military power," which isn't its only meaning.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Case in point, the first thing that they did after the war was to start stripping Eastern Europe of resources to reconstruct their tottering, war-ravaged economy.
TopGearFanatic
Duke of St. Louis
I like to think that the United States hasn't reached its apex yet.
Britain would have to be 1815 until about 1870: the last real rival colonial empire had just been handed a royal kicking, and there was nobody else who could challenge Britain economically or militarily until the Germans and Americans started getting seriously good later on. America - 1991-2001. The USSR has to be about 1970-80, the Germans 1936-41, and the others aren't really disputed that much
Hornblower
Cry Havoc!
USA 1987-1991 (give or take a year) - economy, military/industrial complex, political influence and general ability to respond to most issues
UK 1909-1914 for the same reasons as above. IMHO the involvement in Great War saw the beginning of a long but inevitable decline. By the end of WWII the UK had exhausted 2/3rd of the wealth that they had spent the previous 300 years amassing. By 1950 the empire was gone.
France - the Napoleonic era pre Trafalgar. 1800-1805
Spain - just prior to the loss of the Armada off England.
Germany - 1937-1941 or possibly unification in 1870.
USSR 1945-1950 - militarily they were unchallenged. Although we have the benefit of hindsight that saw the entire communist experiment collapse IMHO the whole Communist machine seemed at its strongest and most effective during the post war period and the world seemed to tremble in the shadow of the USSR.
China - some time in the next 25-50 years.
UK 1909-1914 for the same reasons as above. IMHO the involvement in Great War saw the beginning of a long but inevitable decline. By the end of WWII the UK had exhausted 2/3rd of the wealth that they had spent the previous 300 years amassing. By 1950 the empire was gone.
France - the Napoleonic era pre Trafalgar. 1800-1805
Spain - just prior to the loss of the Armada off England.
Germany - 1937-1941 or possibly unification in 1870.
USSR 1945-1950 - militarily they were unchallenged. Although we have the benefit of hindsight that saw the entire communist experiment collapse IMHO the whole Communist machine seemed at its strongest and most effective during the post war period and the world seemed to tremble in the shadow of the USSR.
China - some time in the next 25-50 years.
You could possibly argue they were "unchallenged" in terms of land forces, but that would still be wrong
Until the USSR got the bomb, the USA was certainly superior militarily.
TopGearFanatic
Duke of St. Louis
I wouldn't say the world was trembling.
Funny to see this era seen as listed as the "apex" of Soviet Power. It's certainly right in that the Soviets had no where else to go but down by this point, but it's generally remembered as a negative point rather than a "golden age".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Era_of_Stagnation
Hornblower
Cry Havoc!
Yes, yes we all know the true extent of Soviet power in hindsight but put yourself in the shoes of a Western Ally in 1948. They were all tremendously worried about how strong the USSR had become. Some such as Churchill advocated rolling right onto Moscow in 1945 to stop the threat. You must remember that the other former allies went through massive demobilisation programmes after WWII and downsized their military complexes. Due to the (now misguided) military doctrinal thinking of the US they believed the atomic bomb was their ace in the hole and standing armies were no longer needed. As such they scrapped entire armies worth of equipment. The Russians threw nothing away and demobbed not a sausage. All I'm saying is that the Apex for the USSR was 1945-1950 - they were at their strongest. The argument is not whether they were stronger than the US or anybody else. This is when they themselves were at their all round best.
Dreadnought
Deity
The USA - n/a
UK - 1815-1914
France - ~1685-1720
Spain - 1521-1575
Prussia/Germany - 1871-1914, 1936-1943
Rome - 50 BC-200 AD
The Ottoman Empire - 1453-1625
Russia/The USSR - 1945-1980
China - n/a
UK - 1815-1914
France - ~1685-1720
Spain - 1521-1575
Prussia/Germany - 1871-1914, 1936-1943
Rome - 50 BC-200 AD
The Ottoman Empire - 1453-1625
Russia/The USSR - 1945-1980
China - n/a
Hornblower
Cry Havoc!
My statement that the Soviet Union was unchallenged in the period 1945-50 may seem ridiculous to you but that is my opinion. The remaining allies from WWII were truely concerned about the Soviet threat and more than one intel agency told them to fear the USSR. Witness all the ridiculous appeasements by the soon to be NATO forces of the late 40's and I surmise that the West was scared of provoking the USSR. The US didn't want a war so soon after the last and as such would not challenge the Soviets over anything significant. Instead they retreated behind the safety of their bomb and hoped that nothing insurmountable occurred to force their hand. As I said. Just my opinion. I believe that period was the Apex of Soviet power. It does not represent a period when that country controlled the world, otherwise the OP would have asked a different question.
Ergo Sum
Prince
I think I can only reasonably talk about American history in this thread, but 1945-1950 may not be our most influential time period. There's an argument for the four year period til 1949 but that period was marked by the onset of the Cold War, an uncertain economy with a dip in per capita income, Soviet atom bombs and Chinese unification under the Communists. I'd point toward ten years after, from around 1956-1962. The US saw unprecedented economic growth, cemented its place as leader of the West with the decolonization of the French and British Empires, saw military power on the upswing with an accompanying increase in boldness against the Eastern Bloc, and cultivated East Asia against the communists in North Korea and Japan. Certainly the Soviets saw victories then as well, like the Cuban Revolution, but Americans were ready for a struggle - a far cry from detente or the Vietnam War. Late 80s/early 90s with fall of the USSR, second Gulf War gave the Americans some sense of victory, of being a superpower, but relative political influence and economic prosperity might've peaked back in the 50s.
Subjective
"Golden Age"
The USA: second half of 20th century
UK: first half of 20th century
France: first half of 18th century
Spain: first half of 16th century
Prussia/Germany: second half of 19th century
Rome: "Five Good Emperors"
The Ottoman Empire: mid-16th century
Russia/The USSR: 1950s
"Golden Age"
The USA: second half of 20th century
UK: first half of 20th century
France: first half of 18th century
Spain: first half of 16th century
Prussia/Germany: second half of 19th century
Rome: "Five Good Emperors"
The Ottoman Empire: mid-16th century
Russia/The USSR: 1950s
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