Which book are you reading now? Volume XI

[Mouthwash]

You should definitely give The Wasp Factory a look, imo.

How would you like it if I refused to sell my books to people of your nationality or belief? I don't think that art by Nazis were ever intended to be enjoyed by Jews or Africans. Yet there are obviously some that might consume such art anyway. Personally, if it's an issue that's long dead and buried, I won't hold it against a dead author. So I don't care if Lovecraft was racist. But this is different.

Imagine the outcry if Orson Scott Card actually said that he didn't want gay people to read his books in order to boycott "the homosexual agenda."

 

[Borachio]

Wut?

What are you saying? Did Banks say Jews shouldn't read his books?

I suppose it's possible (since all things are possible), but it seems a very strange thing for him to say. And it's news to me.

 

[Mouthwash]

Wut?

What are you saying? Did Banks say Jews shouldn't read his books?

I suppose it's possible (since all things are possible), but it seems a very strange thing for him to say.

Israelis.

 

[Borachio]

Did he say Israelis shouldn't read his books?

I can't imagine why. Perhaps he was miffed over Palestine, or something. I don't know.

But he is dead, you know.

I wouldn't deny myself the pleasure of The Wasp Factory, for it. Though of course you're entitled to.

Do you consider yourself an Israeli, then?

Aren't you above all nationalities?

Just how much of your sense of self is tied to being Israeli?

 

[warpus]

Should I read Banks? Sure, he's a scumbucket, but does art really have anything to do with an author's horrible views? I'm sure there are gays who read OSC or black people that read Lovecraft. But I can't bring myself to actually pick up one of his books.

You should definitely read Banks, and I have no idea what you are on about in terms of him being hateful in any way, so you might as well explain, because it sounds like a bunch of BS to me as things stand now.

 

[Mouthwash]

Did he say Israelis shouldn't read his books?

I can't imagine why. Perhaps he was miffed over Palestine, or something. I don't know.

But he is dead, you know.

I wouldn't deny myself the pleasure of The Wasp Factory, for it. Though of course you're entitled to.

Do you consider yourself an Israeli, then?

Aren't you above all nationalities?

Just how much of your sense of self is tied to being Israeli?

I am patriotic. Extremely so. I don't think national sovereignty and personal service can really be divided.

You should definitely read Banks, and I have no idea what you are on about in terms of him being hateful in any way, so you might as well explain, because it sounds like a bunch of BS to me as things stand now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Banks#Politics

 

[warpus]

Don't see anything hateful there... Politics are politics.. You're just reaching, for whatever reason.

 

[Arakhor]

There's also not speaking ill of the dead for no good reason.

 

[Mouthwash]

Don't see anything hateful there... Politics are politics.. You're just reaching, for whatever reason.

"I don't want my book to be sold in Poland."

Would that strike you as hateful?

 

[warpus]

"I don't want my book to be sold in Poland."

Would that strike you as hateful?

Depends on the context.

"I don't want my book to be sold in Poland because Polish people are stupid and can't read and they're all fat and smell and stuff" YES

"I don't want my book to be sold in Poland because Poland continues building illegal Polish settlements on German soil" NO, that's kind of crappy, what the hell Poland, why would you do such a thing!?? You stupid mean Poland, no books for you.

But whatever, if you're just asking about Banks so you can swing the discussion to this point here, then I'm going to say.. No? Don't read any Banks. You're obviously not here to get an informed opinion about any of his works, so why should I bother being more informative than that?

 

[JohannaK]

I'm with warpus.

 

[Mouthwash]

"I don't want my book to be sold in Poland because Poland continues building illegal Polish settlements on German soil" NO, that's kind of crappy, what the hell Poland, why would you do such a thing!?? You stupid mean Poland, no books for you.

Advocating collective punishment (and yes, boycotts are a form of violence), against the entire citizenry of a country because of that state's actions is bigoted. I am not responsible for the Israeli settlements and I shouldn't be punished for it.

Here's a better analogy: Orson Scott Card won't let his books be sold to anyone who belongs to gay rights groups. Hateful or no?

As for my purpose on this thread, I'm just speculating about how someone can consume works by hateful writers or artists. I'm a big fan of OSC and I really am unemotional about gay marriage (despite supporting it), for instance, but I couldn't blame gay people for not wanting to read him.

 

[Ajidica]

Advocating collective punishment (and yes, boycotts are a form of violence), against the entire citizenry of a country because of that state's actions is bigoted.

So, my entire college campus was bigoted in the 1980's when we refused to buy school clothing made in South Africa in protest of apartheid?

 

[Mouthwash]

So, my entire college campus was bigoted in the 1980's when we refused to buy school clothing made in South Africa in protest of apartheid?

Depends. What we did to South Africa was highly situation dependent and requires at least some leeway for the ends to justify the means. I don't know enough to make a decision either way. But denying South Africans the right to read my books is never justified, because there is no possible reason to do so. Cultural and educational boycotts are precisely the thing NOT to do when convincing a country to change.

Was there special "not made by racists" clothing brands from South Africa, btw?

 

[Borachio]

I am patriotic. Extremely so. I don't think national sovereignty and personal service can really be divided.

To be brutally frank, I think you ( and every other extreme patriot), are bonkers.

I rather fancy Nietzsche would be turning in his grave. If they hadn't nailed him down.

 

[Flying Pig]

Boycotts, it's pretty clear, are comments on a government, not the people, especially when they're on commodities such as a particular author's science fiction books or cricket tests. I'm pretty sure that the world's sporting bodies felt no ill-will towards the majority of the South African population when they boycotted the country during Apartheid.

 

[warpus]

Advocating collective punishment (and yes, boycotts are a form of violence), against the entire citizenry of a country because of that state's actions is bigoted. I am not responsible for the Israeli settlements and I shouldn't be punished for it.

Here's a better analogy: Orson Scott Card won't let his books be sold to anyone who belongs to gay rights groups. Hateful or no?

As for my purpose on this thread, I'm just speculating about how someone can consume works by hateful writers or artists. I'm a big fan of OSC and I really am unemotional about gay marriage (despite supporting it), for instance, but I couldn't blame gay people for not wanting to read him.

Sorry but you lost me at "Boycotts are a form of violence". I'm with Borochio on this one.

 

[Mouthwash]

Boycotts, it's pretty clear, are comments on a government, not the people, especially when they're on commodities such as a particular author's science fiction books or cricket tests. I'm pretty sure that the world's sporting bodies felt no ill-will towards the majority of the South African population when they boycotted the country during Apartheid.

Boycotts are collective punishment. It doesn't matter what the intentions were.

Sorry but you lost me at "Boycotts are a form of violence". I'm with Borochio on this one.

It self evidently is. If I withhold medicine from a sick person, am I in any way responsible for his death?

 

[warpus]

But what is the real meaning of the word "is" ? That's where are headed if you start talking like this.

But anyway, we should be discussing books.

 

[Borachio]

It self evidently is. If I withhold medicine from a sick person, am I in any way responsible for his death?

Wow!

That seems very strange to me, when it's applied to a novel!

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/apr/05/iain-banks-cultural-boycott-israel

If I, as an author, refuse to allow my book to be published in a certain country, what am I responsible for?

Especially if, as it would seem, the citizens of that country refuse to read my book in return.