While We Wait: Part 5

[Masada]

I'm not knocking the military, I am worried about giving politicians that kind of... impetus.

What I'm getting at is this is volunteering for pre-existing charitable non-paying work is volunteering for pre-existing charitable non-paying work... why it needs to be paid $40/hour is beyond me up to $4000. Wouldn't your example already be paid? And I do not want to know what the Charity-General comes up with, I can imagine the intense lobbying already

And yes when you have crumbling infrastructure, and other serious economic problems, spending money on a social experiment is not good fiscal sense to me.

Mawkin is just the most pertinent example, and he is one of the most respected economists of the right. He's also positively mild compared to some others

@Everyone: Please don't call NWAG a Libertarian he cannot make that claim whatsoever with any substance whatsoever nor has he. There was no principled stance, he's bounced from, rampant paternalism, to utilitarianism, to being an apologist for the South, to accepting the possibility that owning someone is acceptable. Lets just accept that he's retreated from each and every argument he's made, and that he has to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, accept him as the Devils Advocate and nothing more.

 

[Symphony D.]

I'm not knocking the military, I am worried about giving politicians that kind of... impetus.

... Which can't be used for anything really terrible.

What I'm getting at is this is volunteering for pre-existing charitable non-paying work is volunteering for pre-existing charitable non-paying work... why it needs to be paid $40/hour is beyond me up to $4000.

Because a society that doesn't reward valuable work is kind of crappy, and people aren't going to be terribly inclined to do it for no benefit whatsoever, even if they'd like to because in a capitalist society, time is money? Gee, I dunno.

Wouldn't your example already be paid? And I do not want to know what the Charity-General comes up with.

As a special program for people with Education Majors, yes.

And yes when you have crumbling infrastructure, and other serious economic problems, spending money on a social experiment is not good fiscal sense to me.

Yeah, and most people in our colleges go to be MBAs and Lawyers and other leeches on society (), which is not conductive to infrastructure or serious economic problems. Allowing people who could not otherwise get a higher education to do so is beneficial to a functioning first world economy in the long-term, since you need people to benefit from and maintain all that spiffy high-tech infrastructure. This is a two-way street.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

... And then we have all of the people who don't own a PS3 or an XBOX 360 and therefore lack all those good/prettygraphicshighspeedgameplaynodepth shooters.

We simply play Timesplitters, BF2, Brawl and NES and are happy with that.

[NORTH KING I WANT YOUR N3S TO BE UPDATED!! I CAN'T WAIT SEEING WHATEVER PROGRESS MY PROJECT WILL HAVE!! ]

EDIT: Oh, and Mario Kart Wii rocks aswell online.

I've played two games on the Wii- Brawl and Mario Kart- I enjoyed both.

Wii games don't have any depth

That's what computer games are for.

Elementary is grades 1-5, Middle School is 6-8, High School is 9-12. Anything else is just a different name for one of those three or some crazy private-school program. Elementary and Middle School together comprise what's known as "Primary" schooling elsewhere.

Where I live, Elementary School is Kindergarten, 1-7, and High School is 8-12. However, that is due to our small population making Middle School an unfeasible idea.

One of the reason I wanted the NES Gamer thread by EQ to flourish. But nobody ever got anything up&running. Once, though, I managed to do some Civ3 with Iggy and azale, I think, but that was quite a dissapointment (PBEM due to internet connection issues of some of us, or me only).

I'm still up for a PBEM...

 

[sp1023]

So you can play Civ3 online? How? Is there a multiplayer version?

 

[germanicus12]

Yeah, and most people in our colleges go to be MBAs and Lawyers and other leeches on society (), which is not conductive to infrastructure or serious economic problems. Allowing people who could not otherwise get a higher education to do so is beneficial to a functioning first world economy in the long-term, since you need people to benefit from and maintain all that spiffy high-tech infrastructure. This is a two-way street.

It is funny you say that.... the reason those lawyers and leeches, as you so elequently put it, are what they are is due to the complicated process of producing the books, pencils, briefcases, papers, food, and those fancy BMW's you drive to your stores. All of these are brought by trucks, these guys are not college trained, but rather trained to drive a truck and deliver the goods.

Now when these same trucks are no longer rolling, those same Lawyers and leeches will no longer get the stuff they need to continue being lawyers and leeches. Then the economy crashes and everything goes down the toilet fast. First starting with riots as supermarkets run out of food, then even more as gas station pumps run out of gas, (Georgia has experience with this I believe), then the stock market plummets eventually leading to a crash, then those so called lawyers and leeches shoot themselves in the head over all the money they have lost. Only becuase some genius in Washington believes the roads are in top shape.

I propose a challenge, the first person to guess correctly gets a cookie:

How fast would the supermarkets run out of food and gas station pumps run dry should all of the trucks get pulled off the roads?

 

[Symphony D.]

It is funny you say that.... the reason those lawyers and leeches, as you so elequently put it, are what they are is due to the complicated process of producing the books, pencils, briefcases, papers, food, and those fancy BMW's you drive to your stores. All of these are brought by trucks, these guys are not college trained, but rather trained to drive a truck and deliver the goods.

And your trucks are made by engineers and mechanics, who need a college education, and who are employed by giant corporations which have vast R&D programs to design and improve their vehicles. Society functions circularly! You need to get everything to work, not just one thing and pray it solves all the other problems.

 

[flyingchicken]

Lawyers can be truckers any day, but truckers can be lawyers only after dedicating years to edumacation!

 

[germanicus12]

And your trucks are made by engineers and mechanics, who need a college education, and who are employed by giant corporations which have vast R&D programs to design and improve their vehicles. Society functions circularly! You need to get everything to work, not just one thing and pray it solves all the other problems.

Yes, and those same trucks haul the stuff you need to build more. These trucks are designed to last for a long time. I know we cant live without the other guys.

Wait.... mechanics need a college degree? Engineers I know, but mechanics? They go to a trade school just like truckers.

But what I am saying is the fact that the bulk of the American economy relies on those trucks. Trains, ships, and planes can only carry so much and go certain places. There are approximatley 8 million trucks on a daily basis running up and down those highways, hauling 800 billion pounds of freight a year.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

You have to get a high-level license in order to drive a rig fc.

 

[flyingchicken]

That's just artificial elevation to make truckers feel better.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Hey fc, are you still going to make your magical, fantasy NES? Or have you scrapped that idea in favor of NERFNES?

 

[flyingchicken]

NERFSNES is an exercise until I get (1) a hold of ArcGIS for my Dymaxion map and (2) when the stuff (i.e. my readings) for my fantasy NES are well and complete. I plan to complete NERFSNES, however, just to get over the failure of fcNES (which is unrelated to NERFSNES).

 

[Dachs]

The quizballer has returned, and what he has seen is good. If only we had people on our team other than me that scored some points...I mean, over seventy PPG is nice, but it'd be even better if somebody scored more than an average of a TU a game. I'm pretty sure we qualified for the next level of ACF, though, so

There is not a single mention of the idea of a "living constitution" in the drafting commitie, nor in any time up to the death of Washington. The Founding Fathers you appeal to would have been outraged as well.

Uh, what? First off, read the Federalist Papers. Secondly, you were the one who appealed to the Founding Fathers, not me, and I was merely demonstrating that attempting to do so had balls-all to do with the argument.

Force does not justify a decision legally- if the United States had recognised the South, it arguably would have (assuming the South was illegitimate) given it legal legitimacy, but until then would make no difference.

Where's the 'arguably' in it?

In a state like the United States, the bulk of law is legislation. Legislation's role as a part of law is undeniable.

They're still not always the same thing. Law is socially imposed constraint on behavior. Legislation is what the government enacts.

It was a refutation of one of yours- knowing that they could not simply take the relevant property, despite it being theirs by right, they attempted, as the next best thing, to purchase it.

That still doesn't disprove anything. Good intentions don't mean jack . .. .. .. ..

De jure Serbian government property would still exist within Kosovo, which was de facto prior to evacuation. This would have been turned over to the United Nations, then Kosovo.

And? The Serbian government agreed to evacuate those positions. The United States government made no such agreement. And, if you consider the Serbian government to have had legitimate title to those installations even after Kumanovo was signed (which seems to be the tenor of your argument, consisting as it does of basically disagreeing with me everywhere regardless of its utility to your argument), then the United States' legal title to their own military installations would seem to be unassailable, making the legitimacy of a Confederate attack against same either a criminal act or an act of war.

You can't- that's my point, outrageous as some observers will probably think it.

Then on what grounds are your own moral arguments, insofar as they exist, resting?

O.K- I concede there is a good case for calling the war such (assuming, as is probable, that Davis was not a secret Union supporter).

THIS...THIS...THIS.​

​

I am done, I got what I came for. This was what the argument was about; all the rest was tangential window dressing.

To make a point I think you will concede, the cause "destroyed" was not just mine, but that of the modern neo-Confederate movement (they refuse to call it a civil war).

Since I was under the impression that you supported this position, that's what I meant; if not, then I suppose yeah. This isn't a personal vendetta.

In the years leading up to the war, the Crown directly appointed governors for the colonies, like the Roman governors before them. How is that not part of the same country.

Differences of administration. Actions in the colonies and actions in the metropoly are usually considered something different. It's only when the events in the colonies lead to large-scale events in the home country that something like that turns into a Civil War. Hence the difference between de Gaulle's civil war/coup at the end of the Fourth Republic, and the actions the Belgians fought to retain their colony in the Congo at a concurrent time. The former could possibly be considered a civil war, but the latter was nothing of the sort.

Is designed or was designed? There is a world of difference here.

There is, isn't there? I suppose that fun distinction between legislation and law comes in again.

From info from The Economomist they estimate around the same thing.

Given your comments about your mother frequently preventing you from being able to NES, that is possibly one of the best Freudian slips ever.

 

[Supermath]

The quizballer has returned, and what he has seen is good. If only we had people on our team other than me that scored some points...I mean, over seventy PPG is nice, but it'd be even better if somebody scored more than an average of a TU a game. I'm pretty sure we qualified for the next level of ACF, though, so

No, I am not going to apply to your college just for quizbowl.

And speaking of which, it's always fun when your top scorer decides to go to a Model UN conference as opposed to a relatively high-profile quizbowl tournament.

 

[Dachs]

No, I am not going to apply to your college just for quizbowl.

I'm probably leaving after this year anyway.

And speaking of which, it's always fun when your top scorer decides to go to a Model UN conference as opposed to a relatively high-profile quizbowl tournament.

Especially when his position at said Model UN conference, on a committee discussing colonialism in the imperialistic age of the late 19th century in Britain, involved sitting there listening to idiots talk about how Home Rule ought to be given to Ireland and how decolonization is a good idea and then seeing them gavel. American Model United Nations: a total epic failure?

 

[North King]

AMUN isn't the worst thing in the world... Okay, yes it is.

 

[Neverwonagame3]

I'm going to deal with other things first, but I am going to post more things to finish off the argument on the peripheral points.

 

[Dachs]

I'm going to deal with other things first, but I am going to post more things to finish off the argument on the peripheral points.

Then I won't respond. As I have noted, the other points were as tangential as that red dude that the Gravemind had control of. The main issue, that of the legitimacy of the name 'American Civil War' in labeling that conflict, has been resolved.

 

[Supermath]

Especially when his position at said Model UN conference, on a committee discussing colonialism in the imperialistic age of the late 19th century in Britain, involved sitting there listening to idiots talk about how Home Rule ought to be given to Ireland and how decolonization is a good idea and then seeing them gavel. American Model United Nations: a total epic failure?

Seriously, is that all he did?

 

[Birdjaguar]

I propose a challenge, the first person to guess correctly gets a cookie:

How fast would the supermarkets run out of food and gas station pumps run dry should all of the trucks get pulled off the roads?

A busy gas station gets one or more refills every day; less busy ones every few days.

Fresh food in a busy supermarket will not last long and little is kept in inventory. After 24 hours the holes will begin to appear.