Why "All Lives Matters" is wrong

jackelgull

An aberration of nature
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So the phrase "All Lives Matters" has always rubbed me the wrong way, because it implies an alliance between all Americans, regardless of creed ethnicity or race, with bigots being outside of the norm. That is not true. The election of Donald Trump proves that white people as a demographic will just as likely ally with bigots as with minorities. I want to stress this is not meant to be an individual judgment on all white people, but as an understanding that in our current model of race relations, a minority group cannot fundamentally trust the white majority as a demographic to protect their rights. In this model of race relations, a minority can only really trust others of a similar back ground and shared experience to protect their rights because it is in their best interests to do so too. Any cooperation with white people can only be a temporary coalition based on mutually beneficial goals, rather than an alliance based on shared values.

And the sad thing is, this begins with the actions of the white demographic. Let me start you off with an example, the same example, but one where it happens in an "All Lives Matter" world, and one that happens in the real world.

In the "All Lives Matter" world, we have a bigot boss, doesn't matter how he got there, doesn't matter why he's there, he's the boss of a company, and he's a bigot. So one day he tells his hiring manager, "Don't hire black people" although let's parrot recent political language and rephrase it to "Just throw out the applications of people with inner city sounding names, we all know they won't pass the drug tests anyways". The hiring manager will say, "I'm not doing that" because he knows and the boss knows the boss can't just fire him and find someone who will.

In the real world, we have a bigoted boss who says the same thing, and the hiring manager would go along with it because he himself might agree and because he knows other people would do it.

In both cases, the hiring manager is not a significantly better person than in the other.

And in the real world, this would create the shared experience that makes a touchstone of the black experience, because there is a pattern of bosses and managers like this.

Also in the real world, if a boss decides, "Let's hire these people exclusively to give them a chance from all the places that reject them" everyone would screech reverse racism.
 
Why does the real world side of your example suggest everyone involved is a bigot?
 
Why does the real world side of your example suggest everyone involved is a bigot?

Does it? It just suggests the hiring manager might see the boss' request as fairly reasonable, and that even if he saw it for what it was and disagreed strongly with the bigoted sentiment, he'd know people who'd be ok taking his job if he refused and was fired. The example doesn't rely on everybody being a bigot, just there being enough people willing to enforce the boss' bigoted vision that this occurs.
 
I don't see how that differs from this suggested "All Lives Matter" fantasy realm. Fear of reprisal is a 'thing' regardless of the world you live in. Being canned when refusing to commit an illegal act for your employer is common and is a regularly taken up case by legal organizations that specialize in confronting that issue. This has more to do with the power a boss possesses than an inherent moral failure of an imagined world. If that's the case, you might as well restructure the thread to be a call for communism so we can seize the means of production.
 
I don't see how that differs from this suggested "All Lives Matter" fantasy realm. Fear of reprisal is a 'thing' regardless of the world you live in. Being canned when refusing to commit an illegal act for your employer is common and is a regularly taken up case by legal organizations that specialize in confronting that issue. This has more to do with the power a boss possesses than an inherent moral failure of an imagined world. If that's the case, you might as well restructure the thread to be a call for communism so we can seize the means of production.

In an "All lives matter" world, fear of reprisal wouldn't be a problem, because the hiring manager knows he's safe because the boss can't depend on a large supply of people to enforce his will. There wouldn't be enough bigots and people willing to ally with bigots for this to be a problem.
 
I don't see how that differs from this suggested "All Lives Matter" fantasy realm. Fear of reprisal is a 'thing' regardless of the world you live in. Being canned when refusing to commit an illegal act for your employer is common and is a regularly taken up case by legal organizations that specialize in confronting that issue. This has more to do with the power a boss possesses than an inherent moral failure of an imagined world. If that's the case, you might as well restructure the thread to be a call for communism so we can seize the means of production.

Do you really think your "being canned for refusing to commit an illegal act" is all that common when it comes to violations of the EoE? I really don't see many people stepping up to that plate. "Boss doesn't wanna hire black people, that's their problem and maybe his, but certainly not mine" seems a lot more likely. The point being (I think) that this hiring manager probably wouldn't be considered a bigot, but is still certainly not someone a minority person wants "in the foxhole" with them.
 
Do you really think your "being canned for refusing to commit an illegal act" is all that common when it comes to violations of the EoE? I really don't see many people stepping up to that plate. "Boss doesn't wanna hire black people, that's their problem and maybe his, but certainly not mine" seems a lot more likely. The point being (I think) that this hiring manager probably wouldn't be considered a bigot, but is still certainly not someone a minority person wants "in the foxhole" with them.
More like the manager isn't a bigot, but he's certainly willing to ally with them, helping creating discrimination minorities face. Is it any wonder then, that they band together with people who have faced the same thing, rather than trust white people, which contain alot of people like this manager, who while not bigoted, helped discriminate against them?

So basically you're point but a little more long winded
 
The premise that it requires bigotry to discriminate against people of color in employment situations is incorrect.
 
The premise that it requires bigotry to discriminate against people of color in employment situations is incorrect.

I'm aware there are more factors involved in employment which disadvantage people of colour, but I wanted to touch upon a specific idea using an easily understood example. This was not intended to be seen as representative of all forms of locking up opportunity for people of color, just an easily demonstrable way in which a person's willingness to ally with a bigot creates discrimination.
 
What rights do white people have that protected minorities don't, especially with regards to employment?

Your post reads pretty much that you consider all white people to be bigots which is pretty damn racist on it own. Whatever happened to MLK and the hope that people would be judged on the content of their character rather than their skin color?
 
What rights do white people have that protected minorities don't, especially with regards to employment?

Formally speaking, none. Black unemployment rate is consistently about three times the white, though. There is massive systemic discrimination against black people in the labor market.
 
I'm tired of whose lives matter to whom.
 
Formally speaking, none. Black unemployment rate is consistently about three times the white, though. There is massive systemic discrimination against black people in the labor market.

A lot of this would be based on high minimum wages, especially $15/hr. Without a high minimum wage you could afford to take a chance on hiring kids with no experience and see if they can do the job. If they do well you could then pay them more or at least the kid would then have job experience which would then help him get a better job. A really high minimum wage just makes it hard for a kid to get that all so important first job.

The prevalence of a criminal record among minorities for minor drug offenses further compounds the problem as no one wants to hire an ex-con. Better to de-criminalize marijuana, call the war on drugs a draw and give kids a chance to become productive members of society.

Historically, high minimum wages were used by Unions to keep minorities out of the job market. When minimum wages fell to where the market wage exceeded the minimum black youth employment was as high or higher than white kids (based on comments from Dr. Thomas Sowell about his youth back in the 1950's).
 
I thought this thread would take a revolting turn. You have exceeded all expectations.

I agree judging somebody on the content of their character instead of on their skin color, the horror!

Luckily for you identity politics is the defining ideology of the left so there is small chance of ever achieving MLK's dream.
 
Point noted. I agree that the racial issue deserves to be recognized as an issue on its own, rather than just washing it away with generalization or relativism.
However, a sense of "black identity" and togetherness etc is also potentially a shot in their own foot. Black people can't "win" against white people, for the foreseeable future. By which I don't mean that it was not worthwhile to fight regardless, but If you are not a rapper or basketball player, your best chance to overcome the hurdles of discrimination is to seem as white as possible. Black names or black dialect etc. ... it all marks you not only as black, but also as coming from a bad social background and potentially being a bit stupid. And that is not entirely unjustified. This division of culture I see in the US will only hurt black people and help white people. You can't overcome that. For there to be no discrimination, you need a common theme of normal, not white or black normal.
 
The reason why people come up with alternative identities is because they're shut out of mainstream ones. You've said it yourself - even normal, decent, Obama-voting people still see marks of blackness as signs of 'a bad social background' (never mind that the least educated county in the Union is 0.4% black) or 'potentially being a bit stupid' (never mind that everyone is potentially quite a lot stupid). People who don't like black people wearing chains and calling themselves DeShawn aren't going to be satisfied if those black people start wearing ties and calling themselves Phillip. The problem isn't that there's some objective standard of 'decency', or whatever you call it, and some people are failing to measure up to it. The problem is that the people who don't like black people make their own standards of what is acceptable, and move the goalposts around to exclude the people they don't like. There's a wonderful Irish phrase, used for Catholics, that translates into family-friendly as 'white black person' - a valuable reminder that people don't have to treat somebody as white even when they acknowledge that the person is white!
 
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