Why do abrahamic religions think the cosmos and humans are governed by good and evil?

[classical_hero]

I am not redefining the word serpent. It has many meanings than just what the literal meaning of a serpent. It i often used to described crookedness, because that is they a snake moves, by slithering on the ground, IE, in a manner that is not straight. So as you can see, many words can have addition meanings than just th literal meaing of the word.

 

[El_Machinae]

What I mean is that you're accepting the definition of someone who defined the word "serpent" in Genesis who lived 2000 years after the story was written.

Did the ancient Isreali's use that same definition way back when? We don't know.

 

[puglover]

The idea of Good and Evil forces comes from Persian influence, namely Persian Dualism. So it's not a directly Abrahamic idea.

The idea of good and evil exists in all cultures, and all men have a certain instinctive sense of right and wrong. It didn't come from the Persians, or the Israelites, or even early cavemen. From the dawn of mankind, humans have felt the conflict within them. And that's one of the great evidences that the standard of right and wrong exists, because it exists over many cultures, engrained in the human soul.

To think that the concept of good and evil came from ancient Persia is silly. Man has always strived for moral righteousness.

 

[classical_hero]

Do you know what the word Satan and the word Devil actually means?

 

[Warman17]

I wonder this because good and evil are a recent thing in the history of the universe. In fact good and evil are a creation of man kind. So how can that be a big deal in gods design if he created the universe to begin with? Animals arent concered with good or evil and they kill other animals all the time.

I dont see the significance of doing good in the whole mess of the universe and why that makes a big deal to god (im agnostic so im saying in general) when the universe is largely chaotic.

It doesnt seem like a issue to me. So why would god be concerned with this rather then just having people be faithful in life?

Here is ago again having to try and remove Judaism from the "Judao-Christian beliefs" which are more often than not found in Christianity alone. And once again try and remove the earliest abrahamic religion from the other two.

SHORT ANSWER:
The cosmos is governed by God and humans are governed by free will

Long Answer:
[Good]
Judaism, which is an abrahamic religion, isn't concererned about good and evil so much as it's concerned about the following of God's mitzvot, his commandments. Theres more than the 10 brought down by Moses. There are 613 commandments found throughout the old testament and it's your duty as a Jew to follow as many as you can.

If you've heard the term "having my Bar Mitzvah" its an incorrect statement. Bar Mitzvah means "son of commandment." You become a Bar Mitzvah. It means that you now too must also follow the mitzvot set down by God.

Of course thats not all there is to the Jewish faith. Following Mitzvot today has become synonymous with doing good deeds, acts of kidness, charitable work, and doing moral and ethical things moreso than following a strict list of 613 specific points.

[Evil]

Judaism believes that every human being has free will. There are no demons, devil, or satan(satan as refered to in the Book of Job is dervied from the word "adversary" in which he doubts mankinds loyalty to God and not God himself) which tries to sway humans away from 'the path.' Humans make their own choices in life and some of those are bad ones. "Evil" is regarded as someone who intentionally defies God's commandments to spite him, or the defiance of God's laws for personal gain. Today that meaning is much wider in which we normally see evil, when someone acts without compassion or care and/or with cruelty and malice. However many of the acts we see as evil are normally also found to be breaking one commandment or another; Murder, kidnapping, rape etc.

 

[ironduck]

Why wouldn't this guy's version of a deity be infinitely more realistic:

http://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html

Oh, excellent!

 

[ironduck]

What is the serpent if not a symbol of evil? edit: when written originally.

The serpent is not in any way a symbol of evil the way I read it. Let's take a look at the relevant passage:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

The serpent explains to the woman that god has indirectly* lied to her. Eating from the tree will not bring her death, it will open her eyes. What the serpent does is to give the woman the ability to achieve free will.

*in a sense god isn't lying because by achieving free will the woman's nature changes and her old self 'dies' in order to become her new self. Much in the same way that a caterpillar 'dies' to become a butterfly.

 

[Syterion]

There's got to be a good guy and a bad guy. Otherwise the audience won't have someone to root for or against. The cliffhanger endings are also a brilliant touch. There weren't no sitcoms and dramas back in the days these religions were created, people needed some entertainment.

 

[Quasar1011]

The serpent is not in any way a symbol of evil the way I read it. Let's take a look at the relevant passage:

Yes, and the relevant passage is here:
Genesis 3:14-15
So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."

How many beings are cursed in this passage? Theologians will tell you its 2. God curses the serpent in verse 14. But beginning with verse 15 (And I will put enmity), God is pronouncing a curse on Satan! Many theologians will tell you that Genesis 3:15 is the most imprtant verse in the Old Testament, for it sets the tone for all that will follow: the offspring of Satan vs the seed of the woman. The point here is that Satan possessed the serpent.

Am I reading something into this verse? Well, consider this passage...

Ezekiel 28:12-14
"Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

The King of Tyre was not in Eden, the Garden of God. So we know that this passage actually refers to someone else. But whom? We have more clues in the passage. This person was obviously in Heaven, because he is said to be on the holy mount of God. Verse 17 later reads, "Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;"

So who is this heavenly being that was thrown to the Earth? Jesus answered that:

Luke 10:18
He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

You must remember a couple of things about Scripture. Firstly, Scripture interprets Scripture. Secondly, God's word involves progressive revelation. Tying the relevant concepts together from the whole of Scripture, shows that Satan was in the Garden of Eden.

The serpent explains to the woman that god has indirectly* lied to her. Eating from the tree will not bring her death, it will open her eyes. What the serpent does is to give the woman the ability to achieve free will.

The woman already had free will. The serpent lied to her.

 

[dh_epic]

To me, all these thought experiments lead me to one of three conclusions:

1) God is not perfectly good. If he were omnipotent AND perfectly good, he'd interfere in our day to day affairs all the time. Since he doesn't, he's probably relatively apathetic to the day-to-day goings on.

2) God is not omnipotent. If he were omnipotent and perfectly good, he would have designed a MUCH better universe, where suffering would not be necessary. Since the world is filled with suffering and evil, God must not be omnipotent.

3) Evil is either non-existant or rare. There is good, and there is the greater good, and there are more direct paths towards greater good. But ultimately, God doesn't really care about, say, genocide because he knows it will spur more discussion and progress than it will cause harm. After all, the civil rights movement and the independence of India were both born out of the reaction to Hitler.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

It is the great trilemma of Abrahamic (specifically, Christian) religion - God can't be omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, and existing in the same universe as us. There is no way to reconcile God's absolute love, and absolute power, with the existence of evil. Logically, it doesn't work. Either God has limitations on His power, or He has limitations on His love. I believe the former - He must allow us to commit evil - and in other ways allow suffering to befall us - because they are necessary consequences of free will, and free will is necessary for us to realize our potential.

 

[emzie]

I am not redefining the word serpent. It has many meanings than just what the literal meaning of a serpent. It i often used to described crookedness, because that is they a snake moves, by slithering on the ground, IE, in a manner that is not straight. So as you can see, many words can have addition meanings than just th literal meaing of the word.

You're not, the writer of that section of Revelation is. Oh right, you believe the Bible came unto earth via fax from God and thus the serpent was always the Devil. We will have to disagree on that interpretation, but my point still stands: there is no mention of Satan, the Devil or evil forces using the Pentateuch -- upon which Judaism, Christianity, Islam are founded -- alone.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

There is, however, a concept of wickedness vs. righteousness. Of course, which parts of the OT are considered as pre-Exile, and which are commonly believed to be later (whether they are or not) is somewhat disputed, I think.

Anyways, I think that even taking a purely biological view of morality, one can still end up with a definition of "good" behavior versus "bad" behavior, and it doesn;t require an organized religions to attach the words "good" or "evil" to them.

 

[nihilistic]

Well, nihilistic, the real question is why would God expect us to worship Him if He didn't give us free will? Because then the decision would be entirely His. But as we have free will, we can worship God or not, as we choose, thus our worship is actually worth something.

Worth what? I don't see how if I am truly omnipotent and not insecure, I'd care about whether others worship me. Plus, what is the point of creating people with free will if all you wanted them to do is behave and worship yourself? Why create something as interesting as free will and then make every attempt to hold it back?

 

[emzie]

There is, however, a concept of wickedness vs. righteousness. Of course, which parts of the OT are considered as pre-Exile, and which are commonly believed to be later (whether they are or not) is somewhat disputed, I think.

Anyways, I think that even taking a purely biological view of morality, one can still end up with a definition of "good" behavior versus "bad" behavior, and it doesn;t require an organized religions to attach the words "good" or "evil" to them.

Yes but that concept of wickedness v rightetousness in the Pentateuch is seen as Our God v Their gods (even if the Jews did or didn't believe the other gods were real). It wasn't seen as Our God v Them and Satan.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

God doesn't want us to worship Him for His benefit - he doesn't need the validation. It's for our sake. Of course, it occurs to me we might have different definitions of the word - what do you mean by the word "worship"?

As far as free will, He didn't just do it for fun, He did it because the only way to fulfill our potential is by choosing the right course. So of course He doesn't want us to do what is wrong, but this isn't "holding us back" - to do that would require taking away free will altogether.

 

[Elrohir]

So God allowed the creation of evil to fulfil his self-centre desire to be loved (a concept he also created)? It just doesn't work, I think the problem lies in the fact that a perfect being would not need to around creating stuff in the first place...

God doesn't need anything. He wants things, yes, but not need. Need implies you must have something to survive or stay in good health.

It sounds self-centered from a human point of view. But it's not from God's, especially when you consider that it is only when human beings love God, and serve Him that we can fulfill our potential and be truly happy.

 

[Truronian]

God doesn't need anything. He wants things, yes, but not need. Need implies you must have something to survive or stay in good health.

Want is just a diluted form of need, and if your all powerful they cannot be anything but the same.

It sounds self-centered from a human point of view. But it's not from God's, especially when you consider that it is only when human beings love God, and serve Him that we can fulfill our potential and be truly happy.

The problem doesn't involve humans, its a problem with the interpretation of God. An all-powerful being that is in all ways good would have no need/want/desire to do anything other than float there. If you start introducing needs/wants/desires, you start introducing character to this being, and all characters have flaws.

As Eran said, logically you can have your God all-loving or all-powerful, but not both.

 

[dh_epic]

I think most people have basically said that god is not all powerful. That there's some things God can't change.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

But very few will admit that that is what they are saying, that God is not truly omnipotent.