why do we go to school? @$*%*#!) seriously

[timtofly]

That's rather a reason why religion shouldn't be important.

But yeah, education is the best counter against mysticism.

Seeing as how 90% of that religion is Law, they may make great lawyers one day.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Also, by honing in on Cheezy's "experts in teaching" remark you guys are missing the point which was that children need to learn and they can do so better from a teacher than on their own or from their parents.

I wish they had focused on the expert in teaching part. That was the point. Education degree classes are mostly "how to deal with different kinds of students" and "different teaching techniques" with a lot of ad practicum in the classroom [student teaching and the like]. It's these things that separate a teacher from a parent. As I said, a teacher is an expert in teaching. That's what their degree is in. It's not an "umbrella degree where all the stupid and apathetic people of the world go who can't hack it in 'real' jobs."

The "experts" at teaching children thing is probably overrated. Most of the peers I had back in university days who chose teaching as a job not because they were good at it but that it's a stable living and they couldn't hope to compete in their respective fields.

I also highly doubt that 1-2 years of training in a B. Ed degree would make them experts. It doesn't mean teachers are bad of course but it's not like they all did M. Ed or P. Eds which involved far more rigourous training selection.

In my home state, and I believe it is this way in most states, you are required to either have a Master's in Education, or be progressing toward one (which the state will usually help you with) in order to even be employed as a teacher.

I'm an expert in what I do for a living. My fiance is an expert in hers. We have educators who are professionals at what they do, so that we don't have to be. That's the purpose of the technical division of labour. The professional mechanic is a better mechanic than I, even though I can take care of some basic stuff myself. The professional electrician is a better electrician than myself, even though I know quite a bit about electromagentism and even circuit construction, and can take care of many small things myself. And my [future] kids will be better taught by teachers who are professionals at educating; even though I will be able to help them out with many things at home, I can never be a substitute for that professional.

Kind of a naive viewpoint (or maybe you just had really good teachers).

Kind of a naive viewpoint, or maybe you just had really bad teachers?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

But yeah, education is the best counter against mysticism.

Or the best perpetrator.

In school people are not really or at all taught to critically reflect stuff. That works well enough in natural sciences. As our modern model of the physical world is so well-founded.
In other areas it becomes troublesome really fast.

 

[Akka]

You are the rare exception to the rule.

People thinking they's above the common rable and being all social darwinist as long as they believe they're going to be among the top, are hardly an exception.

 

[bathsheba666]

Oh, teachers, are my lessons done ?


Link to video.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

I'm an expert in what I do for a living. My fiance is an expert in hers.

I am not sure what you do for a living but if one of your recent threads is not fiction, then I'd have to state that a recent graduate of a Master's degree is unlikely to be an expert in anything. Accordingly, I'd attribute the term "expert" to those who publish regularly in the field (like your former supervisor).

I said this not to offend but to offer a dose of reality. As a M.sc from a top university with a respectable publication and working in one of the top IT companies in the world, I wouldn't call myself an expert in anything nor would I offer that title to most of my colleagues with the same rank. We are all very good at what we do but term "expert" implies an overall mastery in the field which we don't have.

We have educators who are professionals at what they do, so that we don't have to be. That's the purpose of the technical division of labour. The professional mechanic is a better mechanic than I, even though I can take care of some basic stuff myself. The professional electrician is a better electrician than myself, even though I know quite a bit about electromagentism and even circuit construction, and can take care of many small things myself. And my [future] kids will be better taught by teachers who are professionals at educating; even though I will be able to help them out with many things at home, I can never be a substitute for that professional.

Yes, that's completely true, but these various specialized professionals are not close to be equally competent at their job, which is the whole point.

If I have kids in the future, I would probably supplement their pre-college education with tutoring for the simple fact that there's just not a lot of quality assurance prior to university.

 

[Goodfella]

I wish they had focused on the expert in teaching part. That was the point. Education degree classes are mostly "how to deal with different kinds of students" and "different teaching techniques" with a lot of ad practicum in the classroom [student teaching and the like]. It's these things that separate a teacher from a parent. As I said, a teacher is an expert in teaching. That's what their degree is in. It's not an "umbrella degree where all the stupid and apathetic people of the world go who can't hack it in 'real' jobs."

If that's the case I'll have to backtrack and agree with ywhtptgtfo. Why should the argument be that a teachers are education experts and not just that their in an overall better position to teach than parents or individual students?

 

[ThERat]

I teach in a polytechnic in Singapore and we recently start to have the same discussion about online learning.

People who do not know students, do seem to see the issue as just another technicality. They forget that education is a lot more than communicating facts. In fact, a theory heavy subject could be taught online at least partially. However, teaching maths based stuff that involves graphs and calculus etc is a lot harder to teach and learn. I teach it using a combination of tools.
Most important, I mix teaching facts with stuff that goes on in the world, with my work experience, all stuff that you can not just pick up from reading wiki and other online sources.

We also impart a lot of other soft skills, when we bring students overseas etc. And of course, they have a lot of hands on lessons that teach them a lot more than any video or e-resource could ever do.

The students appreciate the contact with staff here and do not really fancy online learning. I dare say, if we would go for online courses, we would end up with graduates who might know some facts or two, but who know nothing about the real world and wouldn't be able to do anything useful as employees until after the companies have trained them for a long time.

 

[ThERat]

As for the issue of bad teachers and professors, I can safely say, I had my fair share of them and dreaded school or uni partly thanks to that.

However, I also had great teachers who would provoke our thinking, who would share their stories about life, who would be really engaging. These are my role models. Too many teachers seem to have been born as teachers and forgotten how it was to be a student. As a teacher, you must never forget that and be more than a teacher. You almost got to be an entertainer. I enjoy teaching my students and every lecture is a mini performance for me. if you don't like your teaching job, students will hate it too.

 

[Rashiminos]

everything is on the internet nowadays...

Including the myriad varieties of fecal matter.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Including the myriad varieties of fecal matter.

Even fecal matter can have their fans who'd laminate it and put it up for display on a rack as if it is some sort of glorious trophy... and don't you dare to insult that almighty, all-knowing, and infallible fecal matter because it knows better than you.

 

[Luckymoose]

If you don't want to go to school, don't. It doesn't hurt me. So long as without a highschool level education you're not allowed to vote, that is.

 

[bhsup]

So long as without a highschool level education you're not allowed to vote, that is.

Thanks It's hard to start my day without a morning dose of CFC OT elitism. Almost as bad as not getting a cup of coffee.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Thanks It's hard to start my day without a morning dose of CFC OT elitism. Almost as bad as not getting a cup of coffee.

On the bright side, at least you don't need to own a 50km cotton plantation in Alabama, with minimum of 150 slaves. Any person with less than that is a mongrel undeserving to vote and that civilised people can only pity.

High school is easier than that, considering the fact that it's designed to propel you upwards without any competition.

 

[Hygro]

On the bright side, at least you don't need to own a 50km cotton plantation in Alabama, with minimum of 150 slaves. Any person with less than that is a mongrel undeserving to vote and that civilised people can only pity.

High school is easier than that, considering the fact that it's designed to propel you upwards without any competition.

On the brighter side, at least you don't need a high school diploma to be an enfranchised citizen voter.

 

[gay_Aleks]

On the brighter side, at least you don't need a high school diploma to be an enfranchised citizen voter.

Until some enlightened, yet kind of lost legislator decides to insert a censure for voters, claiming that he's doing it "for the good of our country".

 

[Goodfella]

So long as without a highschool level education you're not allowed to vote, that is.

Why not implement literacy tests and poll taxes while we're at it?

 

[Hygro]

Only householders operating harems can enough at stake to be trusted with voting.

 

[Goodfella]

The illiteracy of negroes indicates the status of a people reared in barbarism, transplanted into the midst of civilization, but bearing none of its burdens and responsibilities, and participating in no way in its social and cultural activities. Such people clearly shouldn't be afforded the privilege of suffrage.

 

[Camikaze]

We are all very good at what we do but term "expert" implies an overall mastery in the field which we don't have.

I think it more implies expertise than mastery (which is presumably just a very high level of expertise). I'd say it's a fairly relative term, too. The less other people know about a particular topic, the more of an expert you are.