Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
yeah, then we can arrange an... accidentrmsharpe said:I supported the Chinese sending their guy up into space. Hopefully soon, they'll be able to send up the whole Central Committee.

yeah, then we can arrange an... accidentrmsharpe said:I supported the Chinese sending their guy up into space. Hopefully soon, they'll be able to send up the whole Central Committee.
Warman17 said:I know the United States, Russia, France and Japan have gone into space before China probobly a few other nations as well. What do you mean by third nation to go to space? Manned visits, space stations, what?
The Guo Ming Dang right now is very honest and open to the people. It is Chen Shui Bien who is very manipulative and corrupted.lobster said:There is also the fact that the Kuomintang (Nationalist party) has problems too. It's corrupt, very corrupt (the main reason they lost mainland to CCP).
(+) Influence said:And also the fact that $1 in China will get you a lot more than $1 in the US.
Chronic said:Also the fact that they hold the threat of war over a country that wants to remain 'de-facto' independent is bad enough.
10Seven said:Why not post, 'why I support Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler' - there is no difference as all are guilty of the same.
Thank you for informing us Taiwanese what were protesting aboutrmsharpe said:As far as the anti-independence protests go, do you know what they are protesting? They don't want to be a part of the communist regime, they continue to believe that the KMT (as I believe also) is the legal and legitimate government of mainland China, not the island of Taiwan/Formosa.
You are confused between status and progress. Yes, if you average out the wealth, the per capita income is still very low, but huge progresses are being made. Remember, the CCP was handed practically a wasteland from Mao. In the 30 years time, China couldnt possibly be like the US who has industrialized for over 100 years now.Luiz said:Still it certainly makes the situation of the chinese people very far from beign nice. China is still below Turkmenistan and Paraguay!
Thats true, we would never support a government like that, but most of the Taiwanese dont see China as that guy. You Americans may see it that way, but we dont. There is a strong opposition to lifting of the embargo (and you may see that as evidence of Chinese aggression), but there was also a strong opposition of the US selling weapons to Taiwan. Both of those issues are seen as attempts to divide China.And I guess many taiwaneses could never support a government that is permanently threatning to anihilate them with an invasion.
In order to understand the situation, you really have to break out of that American mentality of seeing Taiwan and China as David and Goliath. Its a difference in culture, and its hard to understand, but we Taiwanese dont have the mentality of We have a better system so therefore youre wrong, and wed have nothing to do with you In the Chinese culture family is first and if the family is not divided, any conflict can be resolved. If the family is united, any hardship is secondary, and one day the family would be yuan (circular or full without edges), and the Taiwanese very much sees the Mainland as family.And what exactly is the advantage of merging with a gigantic and poor dictatorship, besides extreme national pride?
(+) Influence said:Thats true, we would never support a government like that, but most of the Taiwanese dont see China as that guy. You Americans may see it that way, but we dont. There is a strong opposition to lifting of the embargo (and you may see that as evidence of Chinese aggression), but there was also a strong opposition of the US selling weapons to Taiwan. Both of those issues are seen as attempts to divide China.
In order to understand the situation, you really have to break out of that American mentality of seeing Taiwan and China as David and Goliath.
I have a soft spot for preserving distinct minority populations too. But unfortunately this is a natural process. Despite them enjoying perks like exemption from the one-child rule, the Tibetans, Machurians etc. are simply being out-bred by the Han.Chronic said:Tibet is not genocide, and it is all the more tragic because of that fact. The outside world does nothing, while Tibet is destroyed. Soon (it may have already happened) there will be more Chinese in Tibet than Tibetans :/. Like the Manchurians in Northern China, their language and culture may disappear forever. But that kind of stuff doesn't matter to the CCP or the people of China. Its very sad, and I wish something could be done about it.
The chinese progress is overrated. It is quite common that nations experience periods of huge economic growth. This is specially common in nations that had little to no industrial development, like China. In the late 20's, for exemple, the Soviet Union doubled their economy in a few years. From 1940 to 1970 Brazil had an average growth rate of 8%, peaking at 12.5% in severall years.(+) Influence said:You are confused between status and progress. Yes, if you average out the wealth, the per capita income is still very low, but huge progresses are being made. Remember, the CCP was handed practically a wasteland from Mao. In the 30 years time, China couldn’t possibly be like the US who has industrialized for over 100 years now.
How can you not view them sa that guy, since China publically threatned to invade Taiwan in more then one occasion?(+) Influence said:That’s true, we would never support a government like that, but most of the Taiwanese don’t see China as that guy. You Americans may see it that way, but we don’t. There is a strong opposition to lifting of the embargo (and you may see that as evidence of Chinese aggression), but there was also a strong opposition of the US selling weapons to Taiwan. Both of those issues are seen as attempts to divide China.
I'm brazilian(+) Influence said:In order to understand the situation, you really have to break out of that American mentality of seeing Taiwan and China as David and Goliath. It’s a difference in culture, and it’s hard to understand, but we Taiwanese don’t have the mentality of “We have a better system so therefore you’re wrong, and we’d have nothing to do with you” In the Chinese culture family is first and if the family is not divided, any conflict can be resolved. If the family is united, any hardship is secondary, and one day the family would be “yuan” (circular or full without edges), and the Taiwanese very much sees the Mainland as family.
Opinion polls conducted by Taiwan Mainland Affairs Council showed a steady trend in increasing fraction of residents identifying themselves as Taiwanese only. According to one opinion poll conducted in Feb 2000, 45% of Taiwan residents identify themselves to be Taiwanese only, 39.4% identify themselves to be both Taiwanese and Chinese, and 13.9% identify themselves to be Chinese only. (1). In October 2004, just after president Chen's speech on Taiwan's national day, one poll revealed that over 60% of Taiwan's residents identify themselves as Taiwanese only. Those who would call themselves both Taiwanese and Chinese dropped to below 20%, but roughly the same number still identify themselves as Chinese only
Shaihulud said:So you are sad that it wasn't a genocide? Are you more worried about it being a loss from an anthropologic point of view? Its always a sad fact when a culture is lost, I do believe however that minority cultures in China is not being lost as minority are exempted from the one child policy in China, minority cultures are also encouraged among it's adherents. the situation in china is complex. If the government believes that a culture or religion is a threat to its authority, it will actively crack down on or subvert it. China will always factor into the threat/stability of the region because of its population and size.
(+) Influence said:The purpose of my thread was to clarify some of the misconceptions about China. I have no desire to change the opinion of those who are so convinced in their conviction of China that nothing can change their minds. You can continue to have the notion of the Evil China if that serves any of your higher purposes; its not my lost. I realize that no matter what the Chinese do therell be Americans who will not trust them, and Im fine with that. Ive seen Team America World Police and I know what itll take to earn an Americans trust, and Im not willing to go there. You can continue to believe your myths.
that is essentially what I mentioned above.Chronic said:What are you saying is a myth?
That China holds the threat of invasion over Taiwan or that Taiwan is a 'de-facto' independent country.
The simple fact is Americans do not trust communist or dictatorial countries.
Do we look upon India the same way as China?
No, because they are a democratic nation.
Believe me, I want to like China, their history is amazing. But until their government legitamizes itself (representation of the people) Americans will have a very hard time trusting them.
All Im saying is you have a certain opinion of China and I dont think Ill ever convince you otherwise. Ill let someone else more talented do that. What I offer on this thread is the best that I have. Ive read all the threads about China, and I realize that if I try to argue with you, well not make any progress. I can already predict what it will eventually degenerate to.Chronic said:What are you saying is a myth?
Luiz said:link
So basically most taiwaneses do not consider theirselves to be chinese, and this trend is getting stronger.
Well, theres talk and theres reality. Were all aware of the Mainlands tough talk, but we all know that nothing will happen as long as Taiwan doesnt declare independence. And we know that therell be plenty of citizens to oppose the declaration. And were not opposed to it because we fear the Mainland, we illegitimately want the door open for unification. The only way to understand fully is to live amongst the Taiwanese.Luiz said:How can you not view them sa that guy, since China publically threatned to invade Taiwan in more then one occasion?
I'm brazilian![]()
Extrajudicial killings committed by state police (military and civil) remained a serious problem throughout the country. Uniformed police summarily executed suspected criminals and then filed false reports that the deceased were resisting arrest. There were numerous killings by police. Statistics released by the Sao Paulo State Secretary for Security indicated that 610 people were killed during the year by Sao Paulo police (civil and military); statistics released by the Sao Paulo police ombudsman indicated that 825 people were killed by Sao Paulo police during the year. The ombudsmans figures included killings by off-duty police. In April 2001, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on Torture noted that torture by jail and prison officials often resulted in death (see Section 1.c.). Harsh prison conditions and prison riots continued to lead to the death of inmates (see Section 1.c.). Police also killed street children, indigenous persons, and labor activists (see Sections 5 and 6.a.). Death squads and other criminal groups, many of which included police as members, committed other killings. Numerous credible reports indicated the involvement of state police officials in crime, including revenge killings and the intimidation and killing of witnesses involved in testifying against police officials (see Section 1.e.). The authorities' failure to investigate, prosecute, and punish police who committed such acts perpetuated a climate of impunity that encouraged human rights abuses. Many persons continued to be killed in disputes over land ownership and usage.
An April 2001 report by human rights organizations stated that law enforcement authorities summarily executed approximately 2,000 persons each year.China executes approximately 10,000 each year, so that means taking into account of population you guys still have a 146% kill ratio compared to China(whos the bad guy now?
)
Look, I dont want to bash Brazil. I think the real situation here is pride in ones country. You look at your country and see all the wonderful things that you see and wish that everyone else could recognize. I see my country and all the wonderful things that I see and wish that everyone else would recognize it. Taiwan is a great place, China is a great place, and I wish that some people could see it before they judge it.
How did I twisted your words? You implied that it was a pity that China's action in Tibet was not viewed as genocide. It wasn't genocide, was it? I would not take Dalai lama's word for it, afterall he is not an impartial observer, and stands to have a great deal of power if he can force China's hand. Problem is, he wants it all, he can't stand losing his secular power. Other sects of Tibetian Buddhism compromised and are still flourishing. Is there any widespread dissent within Tibet? Revolts? Is Dalai Lama their defacto leader? it is a power tussle for him and he lost! Now China won't even negotiate with him because he made such a nuisance of himself BooHoooHO.Twist my words as you wish, it doesnt change the meaning of what I said. Its a much sadder situation because its not categorized as a full fledged genocide by that exempleray instution, the UN. I would consider it a genocide, the Dalai Llama puts the number at 1 million Tibetens killed from 1950 to 1989. Many more have fled their homeland, the Chinese have taken over the country and slowly dismantled their culture.
Minority cultures are exempt from the one child policy? well hooray
Its one thing to crack down on or subvert a minority people - its another thing to destroy those people. They are being erased from their own country.
punkbass2000 said:I don't support China because it is occupying Tibet and insidiously attempting to commit genocide of its people.