[RD] Why is there so much suffering in the world?

[Narz]

Mostly people not eating mushrooms.

"My friend" has done that like 50 times, "he's" still pretty good at suffering.

Combined with years/decades of meditation plus psychedelics seems to be a solid combo. Meditation is one of the few things that appears to reduce suffering in the long-term.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Combined with years/decades of meditation plus psychedelics seems to be a solid combo. Meditation is one of the few things that appears to reduce suffering in the long-term.

And what is meditation? What are you doing/not doing while meditating? How does the meditative doing/not doing reduce suffering?

 

[Narz]

Less attachment to dukkha and one's concepts, cravings and aversions.

More scientifically certain parts of your brain which are associated with chronic anxiety and continuous self-referential thoughts quiet down (I forgot which parts)

I'm speaking from what I've read, not from personal experience (I've done maybe 3-400 hours scattered over years whereas these changes require closer to tens of thousands)

 

[Hygro]

"My friend" has done that like 50 times, "he's" still pretty good at suffering.

Combined with years/decades of meditation plus psychedelics seems to be a solid combo. Meditation is one of the few things that appears to reduce suffering in the long-term.

Oh I meant in response to the abundance of hubris that was mentioned above my post.

I agree. Cypher took the red pill but he didn’t have the character to follow it through. But still gotta swallow the right one.

 

[caketastydelish]

Honestly I think Cypher had the right idea. The humans at no point had any chance of winning the machine war (the second renaissance from the animatrix makes that abundantly clear as well as happens in Matrix Revolutions).

In that case, may as well be in the Matrix where you will be happier because you have no chance of winning the war in the real world regardless. Even Neo could do them nothing but temporarily buy time by sacrificing himself.

That said, while the idea was right, from a practical point of view he was wrong. He was trusting Smith and the machines to fulfill their end of the bargain, something they in no way had to do. Just making him a homeless nobody is much easier to implement in the Matrix than “Someone important, like an actor”.

Of course, they could have also just killed him. I would done the same in Cyphers situation, the only thing that would hold me back in trusting Smith to his word.

But I would absolutely would have regretted taking the red pill.

 

[Farm Boy]

Deeper dives aside, Zion seemed a pretty groovy place. Especially with a machine truce that would allow you to get put in or out, theoretically.

 

[caketastydelish]

We have different opinions about Zion. Also differing opinion on trusting the machines to their side of the truce.

 

[Hygro]

Cypher is definitely wrong. Life is not about comfort, you don’t get to kill your comrades for a chance at dreaming well.

 

[Farm Boy]

He's even wrong in somewhat the same way that the Architect is wrong. Playing out all the options and then everything being subservient to one's preferred choice. The Architect gets saved, though.

 

[Narz]

I didn't see the sequels.

Spoiler :

I saw some YouTube theory that no one ever really escaped the Matrix and the whole "rebellion" thing is just another Matrix in which they are still trapped

 

[Farm Boy]

You can't be too literal or it loses meaning. Think of the second two more as a frame for a philosophy exercise. Ultimately, all the characters have their parts written for them, as they strut upon the stage.

As for being trapped, everyone is trapped. It's just a matter of sorting out how and by what. Some of them bear it with more, or less, grace. Cypher bears similarities to a lot of characters, including the hero, but he's most like Smith. Who is not a villain with ill-written motive.

 

[caketastydelish]

That theory is interesting and I know the video/theory you're talking about, but it's canonized. The Wachowski's made it abundantly clear on multiple occasions. Watch the second renisance. (not for the faint of heart though).

As for Cypher, not suffering is pretty important IMO, especially if there's nothing you can do about the reality even when you know it. Ignorance is bliss in that regard, he was right. Morally speaking wrong perhaps, but the choice he made was clearly in his own best interest. Minus the part of trusting smith and the machines to fulfill their end of the bargain.

 

[Farm Boy]

Trusting Smith? How does Cypher's arc matter at all if he trusts Smith or not? Legit interested. Seems to me as if his trusting of Smith is very much the least of his issues. Entirely irrelevant, even.

Perhaps if null=bliss, he's blessed by his initial pill choice.

 

[Kyriakos]

Usually traitors are killed. No one stands to gain anything by keeping them around.
Though if the machines had a sense of humor they could re-install him in the matrix world as a paraplegic or something.

 

[Farm Boy]

The machines aren't monolithic. It'd be funnier to not keep the memory end of the bargain.

 

[caketastydelish]

He is trusting them to reinsert him back into matrix and make him a rich, important, successful person. If they don't do that, then he probably will be suffering all the same, thus there's no benefit for him.

-------------------------------------------

As someone who is very familiar with the Matrix, I can tell you the directors/writers/creators had/have distinctly left wing political beliefs, and this absolutely influenced the Matrix Trilogy.

Zion itself had a large percentage of people of African ancestry, a reference to black people being freed from slavery on the american continent.

In the animatrix, the second renissance, "B166ER" is leet for "bigger", and the reference/inspiration was Bigger Thomas from the novel Native Son by Richard Wright.

I also don't think it was an accident that the traitor just had to be a white, cis, hetero middle aged male.

In the matrix he would have been priveleged by default, at least to some extent. In the real world he always took orders from a black man.

 

[Kyriakos]

I think that taking orders from someone is right-wing itself; doesn't matter if it is black giving the orders to white or vice-versa
If you have to take orders, in effect you cannot express your view, which leads to all kinds of misery. In the case with the matrix, in the end he had to kill a few other people, while IRL it typically leads to disgust.

Now being the one giving orders isn't good either, but some people do seem to like it a lot.

 

[Farm Boy]

His reinsertion into the matrix is irrelevant. It's not going to happen and Smith/them(which isn't actually right even if Smith at this point thinks it is) don't play in.

But wow, that seems like a really sad takeaway for something you know so much about. I'd wish you better, as I think you're capable and deserving of it.

 

[caketastydelish]

How does he know it's not going to happen? From his point of view, it absolutely matters.

 

[Farm Boy]

Doesn't matter if he believes it or not, he's still going to burn.