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[RD] Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by caketastydelish, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    We have to pay to destroy deer nowadays. Go kill a doe. Like seriously.
     
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  2. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Two words: primitive accumulation.
     
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  3. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Well, we live in a world of natural evils. So, our suffering is tied to the ancient heritage of our neurobiology.
    On top of that, we've been unable to convince each other to become sufficiently good.

    A harsh universe coupled with a lack of goodness.
     
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  4. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    On the other hand they have never fought a war for eighty years over which branch of a religion was right.
     
  5. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

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    Structures of power, sustained by all manner of various mechanisms. But foremost to my mind (obviously) is capitalism.

    I'm not saying that capitalism is the root of all our problems, nor am I saying that replacing capitalism with socialism of some kind would be a panacea that will cure everything. However, it's important to recognize that if you care about issues like racism, sexism, global warming, or undemocratic end-arounds ("corruption" if you subscribe to the Warren ideological lens), no meaningful change can occur to them unless and until you get rid of the capitalist structure which sustains and reinforces them. MLK recognized it. Malcom X recognized it. Gramsci recognized it. Rosa Luxembourg and Mother Jones recognized it. And so on and so on.

    As to simple answers which will go a long way towards solving a lot of our immediate ills, I would say 1a) mass unionization on a global scale, but especially within the Western World, or else 1b) a far greater prevalence of worker-owned cooperatives (globally, but again - particularly in the US) coupled with a widespread nationalization of "commanding heights" industries. 2) The election of an US Presidential administration or series of administrations genuinely committed to a radical drawdown of US global interventionism and the Intelligence apparatus. 3) Wide-ranging reform of electoral or democratic structures, particularly in the US, but this also applies to other grossly undemocratic nation-states. 4) A wholesale dismantling of the IMF and World Bank, who play a considerable role in maintaining the gross economic inequality between the global North and the global South, and the vampiric exploitation of the same.
     
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  6. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    True, yet afaik there are ongoing massive global wars between competing ant mega-colonies, while apes fight for all kinds of stuff, including ape trafficking for sexual purpose :)
    I do think that - as sad as it is - humans are among the least unsavory creatures in this god-forsaken planet.
     
  7. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Like communism evolving to the ultimate where the state withers away.
    Yeah, like that's going to happen. Those in power will hold on for dear life and suppress all that will challenge it.
    I always liked some of the concepts until seeing this was the predicted final outcome. I just laughed.
     
  8. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    I wouldn't agree.
    Animals do what they do out of instinct.
    We decide something is wrong then come up with ridiculous justifications for why we should do it.

    edit: Anything animals do we do. Plenty of human trafficking for sexual purposes going on.
     
  9. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

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    Yeah, buddy, I'm not a Marxist-Leninist. I don't advocate Marxism-Leninism. There are many other forms of Socialism which neither endorse nor prescribe Marxist-Leninist Theory or Praxis.
     
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  10. MaryKB

    MaryKB Crazy Spider Lady Supporter

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    I feel capitalism is more a symptom rather than a cause, I feel that cause being greed and selfishness.

    I feel our main hope for a better future is moving away from hierarchy.
     
  11. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Well that was what we studied back then so it's what I had the most experience with. So you are entitled to whatever forms you studied.
    I was a socialist back in my polysci days. Reality changed that. But there are many different models to use. We're all entitled to our own opinions on it.
     
  12. Truthy

    Truthy Idle

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    The most important book ever turns 160 this month
     
  13. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Kindness happens every day all over the world.
     
  14. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

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    ...A Tale of Two Cities?
     
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  15. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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  16. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    What we owe to each other
     
  17. Tristan_C

    Tristan_C Emperor

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    Racism, sexism, and greed are strategic, evolved behaviors that vastly predate capitalism. There certainly is not a lick of evidence in history that capitalism gave rise to these. Such that it exists, man-made global warming comes from technologies and high population. There is not even a control group to indicate capitalist systems exacerbate the phenomena, because the entire world practices various mixed-market models that incorporate both capitalistic pricing and social institutions.

    I think it would have been important for leftist thinkers to recognize even just a few basics about wealth, and the scientific explanations for things like racism and greed, before too many idiots bought their conclusions and ended up in the gulag.

    For wealth, here is just one example of how goods can be characterized that helps explain why the world is mixed-market.

    goods.png

    For examples see wikipedia about these four classifications. Prices are more effective than laws at distributing private goods, and laws are more effective than prices at distributing public goods. The common and club goods are best-distributed through a mix of pricing and recognizing legal privileges. This is not theory, but a post-evidentiary description of the world being a "mixed-market" system.
     
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  18. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    No more pencils no more books. No more teachers dirty looks.

    Except more rules I like, hehehehe.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  19. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Tristan, when you say "effective", do you mean 'efficient' or 'productive'? The statement you made is theoretically true in certain framings of Pareto efficiency. But it's only true then under certain conditions.
     
  20. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    Just read a really good book on this subject : Why Buddhism is True, it's called.

    Basically natural selection has designed us to be selfishly focused on our own survival/procreation, focused on dissatisfaction rather than satisfaction (and overvaluing how much satisfaction we will get from achievement and overestimating how long it will last).

    In other words, we are programmed for optimal survival (long enuf to breed), not optimal happiness. A being who harbors equal goodwill to others as himself and other tribes as much as his own... well, that guy is not our ancestor.

    The author's prescription is mindfulness meditation which can give us more of a glimpse into the truth that our egocentric views of reality are not accurate and our cravings & strivings for power/status/etc lead to our suffering.

    The whole "is true" isn't talking about the mystical parts of Buddhism but the core assertions that cravings lead to suffering & emptiness (lack of "essence") is truth (that all the labels we put on reality are self-serving).

    I'm not descripting it that well but great read and on topic for this question.
     
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