Why the West will always win

[shahreevar]

And like I have said. Our military superiority is a result of our superior culture. Asia will never catch up because it is culturally inferior.

ok so what's your point ?(that is even if i agree with you, which btw i dont!)

can we please let the kid have what he wants??

 

[Alpine Trooper]

Some thing to ponder, Alpline Trooper:

What is Western Civilization, anyway? I define as any culture with its basis dervive from Classical Greece, Rome and the Roman Catholic Church.

Also, you cannot really talk about an "Asian" culture. At least, you can talk about a Muslim, Indian and Chinesee civilization, with satille nation around them. And that is grossly over simplified.


*Cough-World War, parts One and Two-cough*

The word the "west" has become complicated as words such as "terrorist" "liberal" or "conservative". It's unfortunate a fine definition doesn't exist.

 

[Alpine Trooper]

Oh god, I have to read Carnage and Culture by Victor Davis Hanson for class. The book is so awful forcing the reader to see his simplistic and one sided views of military history.

This article by war nerd sums up my feelings about Hanson.

http://www.exile.ru/2005-July-28/victor_hanson.html

I was waiting for someone to say this. And I agree with you, it's awful. But you must agree, he pushes a good argument and creates a good debate.

 

[shahreevar]

The word the "west" has become complicated as words such as "terrorist" "liberal" or "conservative". It's unfortunate a fine definition doesn't exist.

well, then you better find one, or come up with one if you ar making an argument about superiority. i mean X > asians/arabs/mulims/sand $$$$$ is afine arguement when X is really not well defined

 

[Marla_Singer]

Some thing to ponder, Alpline Trooper:

What is Western Civilization, anyway? I define as any culture with its basis dervive from Classical Greece, Rome and the Roman Catholic Church.

Actually, that's an interesting debate.

It's true that in general European civilization is considered as based on two pillars : the Greco-Roman heritage and the Judeo-Christian heritage. Knowing this, we can actually consider that the Western civilization isn't even born in the early Middle Age, but actually during the Renaissance.

 

[Alpine Trooper]

well, then you better find one, or come up with one if you ar making an argument about superiority. i mean X > asians/arabs/mulims/sand $$$$$ is afine arguement when X is really not well defined

Read back two pages.

Also, if you disagree why not provide reason?

 

[elfangor801]

Alpine Trooper, I understand the point you're trying to make, you're just going about it in the wrong way .

Go rent the documentary "Guns, Germs, and Steel". I can't speak of it's accuracy compared to other things because I haven't looked into other ideas at all, but it makes a pretty good case as to why the West has kicked so much ass over the past 500 years (ish). Prior to that, the West really wasn't that important minus Rome and maybe Greece and Macedonia.

 

[shahreevar]

Actually, that's an interesting debate.

It's true that in general European civilization is considered as based on two pillars : the Greco-Roman heritage and the Judeo-Christian heritage. Knowing this, we can actually consider that the Western civilization isn't even born in the early Middle Age, but actually during the Renaissance.

ok, but that would mean that Western civilization is/was influenced by the east since Judeo-christian heritage started there, and the Greeks were heavily infulenced by the eastern cultures.
p.s. i am really over-simplifying things for Alpine's brain.

 

[Alpine Trooper]

ok, but that would mean that Western civilization is/was influenced by the east since Judeo-christian heritage started there, and the Greeks were heavily infulenced by the eastern cultures.
p.s. i am really over-simplifying things for Alpine's brain.

Nothing you just said makes much sense.

 

[Marla_Singer]

ok, but that would mean that Western civilization is/was influenced by the east since Judeo-christian heritage started there, and the Greeks were heavily infulenced by the eastern cultures.
p.s. i am really over-simplifying things for Alpine's brain.

Well, it may be simplified but according to me this still remains hard to deny.

 

[shahreevar]

Nothing you just said makes much sense.

why? care to educate me??? really i mean that.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Alpine Trooper, I understand the point you're trying to make, you're just going about it in the wrong way .

Go rent the documentary "Guns, Germs, and Steel". I can't speak of it's accuracy compared to other things because I haven't looked into other ideas at all, but it makes a pretty good case as to why the West has kicked so much ass over the past 500 years (ish). Prior to that, the West really wasn't that important minus Rome and maybe Greece and Macedonia.

Rome and Greece being more Mediterranean civilizations than properly "European civilizations".

Actually, the whole world was seen according to the Mediterranean Sea at those times. As far as I know, it's the Greek who invented the first the words "Europe", "Asia" and "Africa", and they defined them respectively as the Northern shores, the Eastern shores and the Southern shores of the Meditterranean Sea.

 

[shahreevar]

Well, it may be simplified but according to me this still remains hard to deny.

hey, i dont doubt what you say at all. but since i know Alpine to be a .... well a troll, i was finding something (more of a bs really) to counter his errrr arguement(?). do you really thing western cuture as a whole is superior to the east, or rather we are differnt, but also similar in so many ways, which show that things are not as black and white as they appear, and that really we are continuous,and connected.

 

[Kyriakos]

Some thing to ponder, Alpline Trooper:

What is Western Civilization, anyway? I define as any culture with its basis dervive from Classical Greece, Rome and the Roman Catholic Church.

The roman catholic church is an emblem of the West? It actually (along with all other christian churches) was what ******** Europe for aeons. Also i do not see why the western church has to be linked with superior civilization when the Byzantine Empire was superior to its contemporary France and HRE, let alone northern Europe.

In my view the West begins with ancient Greece, then Rome, then the byzantine empire, then the rebirth (15th century), then the enlightenment. Today the general notion of the West is about freedom and value of life.

 

[Riesstiu IV]

I was waiting for someone to say this. And I agree with you, it's awful. But you must agree, he pushes a good argument and creates a good debate.

How he got a PHD is beyond me. The thing that annoys me is that he lumps all of western warfare into a category and vainly attempts to connect it all from the Greek hoplites of the 5th century BC to the modern US army.

You cannot just simplify military history in such a stupid manner. Roman pacification policies and tactics don’t hold much of a relation to our current occupation of Iraq.

There is no such thing as a "western" way of war that encompasses 2500 years of history. Nor is there such thing as an "eastern" way of war. Case studies should be made on individual nations, empires, tribes, etc. not on broad generalizations.

 

[Marla_Singer]

hey, i dont doubt what you say at all. but since i know Alpine to be a .... well a troll, i was finding something (more of a bs really) to counter his errrr arguement(?). do you really thing western cuture as a whole is superior to the east, or rather we are differnt, but also similar in so many ways, which show that things are not as black and white as they appear, and that really we are continuous,and connected.

No, what I meant as hard to deny was that the Western civilization was based on Eastern inheritance.

 

[shahreevar]

No, what I meant as hard to deny was that the Western civilization was based on Eastern inheritance.

oops my bad. i appologize

 

[elfangor801]

Actually, the whole world was seen according to the Mediterranean Sea at those times. As far as I know, it's the Greek who invented the first the words "Europe", "Asia" and "Africa", and they defined them respectively as the Northern shores, the Eastern shores and the Southern shores of the Meditterranean Sea.

Well that shows something now doesn't it .

The roman catholic church is an emblem of the West? It actually (along with all other christian churches) was what ******** Europe for aeons. Also i do not see why the western church has to be linked with superior civilization when the Byzantine Empire was superior to its contemporary France and HRE, let alone northern Europe.

In my view the West begins with ancient Greece, then Rome, then the byzantine empire, then the rebirth (15th century), then the enlightenment. Today the general notion of the West is about freedom and value of life.

Well, for better or worse, the Roman Catholic did sort of control most of Europe for what, 800 years? It wasn't a fun or benefitial 800 or so years, but the fact remains that they left an enormous impact on the continent the therefore the rest of the world. And they didn't just fade out with the Renaissance, who do you think ran half of the New World operations for the Spanish and Portugese?

but since i know Alpine to be a .... well a troll, i was finding something (more of a bs really) to counter his errrr arguement(?).

Insulting the other guy doesn't make your argument any stronger, you know.

 

[shahreevar]

Insulting the other guy doesn't make your argument any stronger, you know.

you are absolutely right, i am sorry for the insult. it's just that he is a troll, and i cant help it!! (i guess i lowered myself to his level, so that is a shame on me )

 

[Marla_Singer]

Well that shows something now doesn't it .

It shows that the Western culture is based on Greco-Roman inheritance, and that it has spread its vision of the world after the Renaissance. I doubt it shows anything else than that.