Will Germans be proud of ww2 in 100 years?

[AceChilla]

My question is: will germans be proud of world war 2 in one or two hunderd years? I'm asking this because we always tend to romantize history when time goes by. For example many Europeans are often proud of their colonizational efforts, and brag about them without mentioning the crimes commited against the people they colonized.

Will this romantization process also apply to ww2 and will people forget about the crimes in 100 or 200 years, or are the crimes commited in ww2 so horrible that they will be remembered forever?

I don't want to offend Germans, but I think all human beings try to see their own history in a positive way.

 

[Achinz]

Difficult to answer because a country is not homogeneous as far as people's opinions and attitudes go.

With time, those directly involved with WWII would have died off and the new generation would only be aware of it from school history text and other reading/media they are exposed to.

For Germany my superficial impression while there two years ago was that there was much memorialisation of the horrors of the Third Reich. Besides the well-known preservation of the concentration camps eg Dachau in the outskirts of Munich, there are synagogues which have been restored, often exhibiting the black chapter in their existence in graphic photos. The one in Worms was particularly full of pathos. My German hostess for the tour in her 30s was certainly aware of the sins of her predecessors.

On balance then I'd say that Germans would not romantise this dark chapter in their history.

 

[Kafka2]

I doubt it. 85 years on we Brits are still a bit embarressed about slapping the Kurds about.

 

[rilnator]

Dunno, by 2104 the Germans may have won a world war.
You must admit, they are due for a win.

 

[Stefan Haertel]

You must admit, they are due for a win.

No, they aren't. This kind of talk is very dangerous as there are more and more revisionists in Germany. If you said this in German public, I'm not sure if this can comply with freedom of speech as per Art.5, I Grundgesetz (GG), or if it is not much rather people's bait (forbidden by Art. 26, (1) GG) or even urge to war of aggression (forbidden by the same article), and will propably also violate art. 25, GG.
In case of doubt:
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/eurodocs/germ/ggeng.html (Grundgesetz, English translation)
http://www.datenschutz-berlin.de/recht/de/gg/ (German html version)
http://www.bundestag.de/gesetze/gg/ (for download from the government itself)

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by Stefan Haertel
If you said this in German public, I'm not sure if this can comply with freedom of speech as per Art.5, I Grundgesetz (GG), or if it is not much rather people's bait (forbidden by Art. 26, (1) GG) or even urge to war of aggression (forbidden by the same article), and will propably also violate art. 25, GG.

I certainly hope it wouldn't be seen as a problem but I wouldn't bet on it...

 

[Adler17]

After the (partly questionable) trials of the German constitutional court this thread should be under the freedom of speech. However I do not think the Germans would glorify WW2. Even in 100 or in 1000 years.
Personally I do not see so much revisionists. Who they are. The ones who write about the allied war crimes like Dresden or Hamburg or the ones who ask about the deprotation of the Germans out of the East territories? German history is not only the history of ww2 or after 1949. We must speak also about the crimes the allies did. As well as there is no people full of criminals there is no people without victims.

Adler

 

[Stapel]

I think the crimes will be remembered. But, if it weren't for the crimes, people indeed tend to romantisize history.

Napoleon is still aFrench hero, while the power of France went down during his reign, and while he sent millions of French to death.

 

[Stefan Haertel]

Personally I do not see so much revisionists. Who they are. The ones who write about the allied war crimes like Dresden or Hamburg or the ones who ask about the deprotation of the Germans out of the East territories? German history is not only the history of ww2 or after 1949. We must speak also about the crimes the allies did. As well as there is no people full of criminals there is no people without victims.

I'm not talking solely about people talking in the media, but about people I know, from school and elsewhere.

 

[pkmink]

The crimes in WW2 won't be forgotten, they were too well documented (with eye-witnesses, photographic material, etc.) for that. Besides, even crimes much earlier, hardly documented at all, are still remembered (like the destruction of Carthage by the Romans). Also, I think Germany has handled the post-war reconcilliation with and education about the crimes committed in their name very well (compare this with how Japan or many other nations which collaborated have done it). From the friends I have in Germany and the programs I watch on German TV, I get the impression there won't be much romanticising, also in the future.

 

[pkmink]

Originally posted by Achinz
(..)For Germany my superficial impression while there two years ago was that there was much memorialisation of the horrors of the Third Reich. Besides the well-known preservation of the concentration camps eg Auschwitz-Birkenau in the outskirts of Munich (..)

Auschwitz-Birkenau is located in the vicinity of Cracow, Poland...

 

[Achinz]

Originally posted by pkmink
Auschwitz-Birkenau is located in the vicinity of Cracow, Poland...

Well spotted! It was Dachau of course. A real slip of the mind

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by pkmink
(like the destruction of Carthage by the Romans).

the differncve here is Rome didnt attemot to comit genocide- they only raised the city, and anyone who left peacefully was free to go before hand, after the fighting had climaxed on the carthaginian citadel- the same cannot be said for nazi germany

 

[rilnator]

Originally posted by Stefan Haertel

No, they aren't. This kind of talk is very dangerous as there are more and more revisionists in Germany. If you said this in German public, I'm not sure if this can comply with freedom of speech as per Art.5, I Grundgesetz (GG),

I'll watch what I say next time I visit The Fatherland (am I alowed to use that term)?

 

[Mescalhead]

I believe that Germany will remember the persecution and the "non-collateral" civillian deaths. But, quite possibly, Germany may find a sort of silver-lining, as if Hitler was the source of the atrocities, and though his effect was overwhelmingly negative, he had a sort of Nationalist preservative spirit or vision. This may be a source of inspiration, but most people probably would never condone the actions of the 3rd Reich. Rather take from it what they may and leave the rest as the unwanted or undesirable majority.

I think Germany has been more than fair in their acknowledgement and rectitude of their past. When it comes to this aspect, no one can truly complain. Whether you want to admit it or not, and for whatever pragmatism it serves, Germany has a more limited freedom of speech when concerning racial and political matters than do many other Western nations.

Originally posted by rilnator


Fatherland (am I alowed to use that term)?

Nein! Das ist aufrührerisch!

(No, I don't speak German.) At all!

 

[Stefan Haertel]

Fatherland (am I alowed to use that term)?

You are allowed to, but don't be surprised if that word has little to no meaning to the people outside the nationalist/conservative area, except for perhaps ringing bells of a certain past.

 

[MrPresident]

No. And many Europeans are not "proud" of their colonisation past. It is just that there is a movement to revise the current highly negative view of their era of history and put it into a more accurate context. In fact, there is a complain in Britain that we are far too ashamed of our Empire because it actually brought a lot of benefits to the world. But then that's for another thread.

 

[AceChilla]

Originally posted by MrPresident
No. And many Europeans are not "proud" of their colonisation past. It is just that there is a movement to revise the current highly negative view of their era of history and put it into a more accurate context. In fact, there is a complain in Britain that we are far too ashamed of our Empire because it actually brought a lot of benefits to the world. But then that's for another thread.

Well that's exacly what I'm talking about. People who want to view their history in a positive way although it obviously wasn't so positive for a lot of other nations.

It's hasn't even been hunderd years ago that's Brittain lost his empire and already people are glorifiing it. How long will it take before we start to glorify ww2? 200 years? Before people say you know ww2 acctually brought a lot of good to the world.

But of course the crimes are better recorded than any other in history, and as long as those records here people will know what happenend in ww2.

 

[MrPresident]

Originally posted by Drunk Master
Well that's exacly what I'm talking about. People who want to view their history in a positive way although it obviously wasn't so positive for a lot of other nations. It's hasn't even been hunderd years ago that's Brittain lost his empire and already people are glorifiing it.

You misunderstand me. I am not saying that people view our colonisation past in a positive, obviously some do but they are by far the minority. I am saying that a lot of people dislike the view of history that says all imperialism was absolutely and completely wrong with no redeeming features. While I would agree that colonising another people is wrong that should not cloud our intepretation of history. The British Empire (and other Empires) did a lot of good, such as in the fields of transports, health, commerce, government and so on. To dismiss that is to deny history and to speak of the benefits of imperialism is not to condone it or to glorify it.

Originally posted by Drunk Master
How long will it take before we start to glorify ww2? 200 years? Before people say you know ww2 acctually brought a lot of good to the world.

All wars bring benefts but I doubt anyone would say that any benefit is worth the death of 50 million people. WWII shall never be glorified, at least from the German side. It may be reinterpretated, as it has already been, but it will never be glorified.

 

[Sims2789]

this is a stupid question. nothing good came out of that war for Germany.