Will religion eventually collapse?

[warpus]

Where is it legal to drive drunk?

 

[Globex]

Again the second part is based on your personal viewpoint. I don't hear alot of stories about people leaving religions. I do hear alot of stories of people converting.

Just because you don't hear it happening doesn't mean it never happens. If you want to hear "stories" about people leaving religions then do a quick youtube search on "Why I became an atheist" or something along those lines and you'll find plenty.


Also does anyone know where I can find some statistics that would tell whether or not the percentage of religious believers has declined over recent years?

 

[King Flevance]

That's actually the point I was getting at. A person view slants the idea behind this discussion making it a topic that begs for tensions to rise without information.

 

[El_Machinae]

IIRC, religious tendencies haven't changed with the increase in available knowledge in the world. It still tends to go down with increased education.

 

[Holycannoli]

high rates of religion is also shown to correlate with higher rates of crime so your argument doesn't really hold.

Correlate in what way? Correlate as in Iran's morality police arresting people for what they consider crimes, and fundamentalist/theocratic states having stricter laws thereby having more crime? Or correlate as in religious people in secular countries without such strict laws tend to commit more crimes for some reason? Or correlate as in some of the world's countries with high rates of religion also have low rates of education, which may explain their high crime rates, and is what people usually blame for high crime rates?

That could be a really deceiving correlation. It may not mean what you think it means.

IIRC, religious tendencies haven't changed with the increase in available knowledge in the world. It still tends to go down with increased education.

There's a reason for that too. It is said that one of the great tragedies of today is that people don't accept God until they need Him. If you're educated and don't need Him in your life, it's easy to forget Him entirely. A lot of people find Him in jail, when all of a sudden they need Him, and it can be life-changing.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, poverty correlates with both increased crime rates and increased religiousity and decreased education.

I guess we should be working on increasing poverty then. Get more people in jail and out of school

 

[Snovvdog]

Yes, first in western Europe, then probably in eastern and southern Europe after decades, hopefully after a century or so the US inhabitants will follow the good example and drop their beliefs...

Only advanced countries will do this, I doubt most African, middle eastern, and some Asian countries will ever drop their religion in this millennium, perhaps Japan some day, but Countries such as India have a long way to go still... As until people get educated properly about nature sciences, people will just continue to believe as they just don't know better and believe the rubbish their ancestors tell them...

Here where I live the amount of believers drop every year, as do the churchgoing people.

 

[Holycannoli]

Well, poverty correlates with both increased crime rates and increased religiousity and decreased education.

I guess we should be working on increasing poverty then. Get more people in jail and out of school

Well see that's why that correlation can be deceiving. It makes it seem as if only the uneducated are religious, that the educated dismiss religion as false, and that religion might be responsible for crime.

I see it as the uneducated need God for hope and accept Him, the educated don't and can easily forget or dismiss Him (happens all the damned time. Funny how money can make someone forget all about God), and religion isn't responsible for more crime, but those who commit crimes, who tend to be undereducated, also tend to label themselves as religious, even though they usually aren't actually religious in practice. Because to be religious you have to practice your religion which usually includes not commiting crimes*. Simply saying "Yeah I believe in God" does not make one religious.

*Religions are still made up of humans though, and humans are deceitful, greedy and imperfect. No religion has a clergy or followers who are perfect down to every last one of them.

 

[El_Machinae]

Naw, no one thinks that religiousity creates criminals (except when the religion espouses criminal beliefs). Poverty helps cause both religiousness and criminality, though I would guess that the religiousness is actually due to poorer education caused by poverty.

 

[Globex]

That's actually the point I was getting at. A person view slants the idea behind this discussion making it a topic that begs for tensions to rise without information.

You know, I never said that the percentage of religious people has declined over recent years, thats why I asked for the statistics.

My only claim was that religion has become more diminished in modern times than it was before. I gave my ideas on why this trend occurred and why I believed it would continue.

If you can give some evidence that this general trend has started to reverse in recent years (e.g. a graph showing the percentage of religious people rising) it would certainly make me reconsider and would be an excellent contribution to this thread.

And what's wrong with tension? It seems to arise in almost all discussions in OT.

 

[PlutonianEmpire]

No. Religion will always, ALWAYS be around, and those damn alien Annunaki overlords from Nibiru will make sure of that.

 

[King Flevance]

-Science has debunked many of religion's previously held beliefs and is further debunking them and thus making religion seem more unlikely (Based on what?)
-More people are becoming educated and rational (making them somewhat less receptive to the belief of supernatural forces, superstitions, the usefulness of prayers and other elements that make up a religion)(Based on what?)
-Technology satisfies many of our day-to-day needs and can help avert disasters and solve problems (people no longer need to turn to prayer for these things) (Science makes God replaceable? I don't understand this. Technology still can't perform Jesus's miracles.)
-Today, many people are already preoccupied with the responsibilities of modern life and in addition, there exists a copious amount of entertainment. These things may make tasks like attending religious ceremonies seem less important. (Based on what?)
-Religious tolerance has exposed people to the ideals of other religions (when you know only one religion and consider people of other faiths as heathens, then you firmly believe that your religion is correct while all others are wrong but when you are exposed to multiple religious ideologies, it sort of corrodes your faith in your religion since it makes you think "With so many religions in this world, how do I know mine is the correct one and all others are wrong? Is it possible that the millions of people in other religions are following delusional ideologies?" (What's all this based on?)
-We no longer need religion to explain the origins and workings of the universe. (Not that science has the answers to everything. Its just that a large part of many religions had to do with explaining the birth and mechanics of the world. Science has taken a huge chunk out of that part) I don't think religion is really about explaining the way the universe was created. I don't think it is that important.
-Our moral standards have improved enormously since religious texts were written which makes some of these texts seem barbaric and horrifyingBut they happened. Humanity should not forget about it because its frightening.
-Certain individuals use religion to justify their hostility towards certain groups (e.g. homosexuals) and thus possibly driving away potential believers from their faith and making their faith look intolerant in a world where tolerance is expected.This ties in with the post 2 posts above yours.
-Governments and countries are becoming increasingly secular.Its amazing to me that this means two different things for each of us probably.


There are factors that keep religion alive such as the human desire for meaning and fulfillment in life but IMO the effect those factors have is not enough to keep organized religion alive.
Based on what?

Do you think that religion will survive the next century? yes
Do you think religions will adapt to these problems facing them? some
If you think that religions will eventually die out, how long do you think that this decline and eventual collapse will take? 'til Jesus gets back.

Hmmm, XCL.

 

[Globex]

@ post #132

Maybe you should actually read through this thread so I don't have to repeat myself a million times. It gets kind of tiring you know.

 

[King Flevance]

Probably so. I have read about 10 posts in this whole thread I'll admit. I can only imagine what all is contained in the thread because I aint gonna read it. Hehe. Basically I answer the title of the thread "yes" and don't care no more. I probably shouldn't have opsted in the first place really. But was curious of the response I got.

 

[warpus]

It is said that one of the great tragedies of today is that people don't accept God until they need Him. If you're educated and don't need Him in your life, it's easy to forget Him entirely. A lot of people find Him in jail, when all of a sudden they need Him, and it can be life-changing.

I don't see how that's a tragedy. People in need will turn to whatever help that is available - including the supernatural... and including stuff that isn't actually true.

Hey, it's not a bad thing that they're getting better, don't get me wrong. But I dont' see how this implies that not turning to the supernatural when you're doing alright is such a tragedy.

 

[Mercenary82]

Religion won't collapse because Europe giving the rest of the world a perfect example of why not to allow its collapse. Sorry but we don't want our population to die off like yours is lol.

 

[Grisu]

Religion won't collapse because Europe giving the rest of the world a perfect example of why not to allow its collapse. Sorry but we don't want our population to die off like yours is lol.

except that it isn't....

 

[GenMarshall]

except that it isn't....

Yeah, being filled with Muslim immigrants .

 

[Bill3000]

There's a reason for that too. It is said that one of the great tragedies of today is that people don't accept God until they need Him. If you're educated and don't need Him in your life, it's easy to forget Him entirely. A lot of people find Him in jail, when all of a sudden they need Him, and it can be life-changing.

Which is why they become Muslims instead of the One True Faith.

Religion won't collapse because Europe giving the rest of the world a perfect example of why not to allow its collapse. Sorry but we don't want our population to die off like yours is lol.

That's simply a matter of the correlation between prosperity and decreased growth rates.

 

[Grisu]

Yeah, being filled with Muslim immigrants .

who in time get infected/assimilated by our secularism

btw, birth rates of natives are rising again as well...

and of course, the there's still his (wrong) assumption that our birthrates are down due to secularism...