Windows 8

[Zelig]

Aesthetically, the start screen and charms bar are only out of place because of left-over inconsistent aesthetics on the desktop that haven't been updated to the flat look yet.

Ergonomically, I really don't see any problem - the charms bar is never used on the desktop, you should be typing on the start screen if you have a keyboard connected.

Leftover bling and non-updated icons is a problem, this has been a problem with every version of Windows, I wish MS would fix it.

I think there isn't enough settings duplication. As it stands certain things are only available in the Metro settings and certain things are only available in the control panel. I'd prefer every setting that affects non-Metro to be available in the control panel, every setting that affects Metro to be in the Metro settings, and every setting that affects both to be in both settings locations.

I don't have a problem with the shutdown location, on any hardware than can run Windows 8, you can just push the hardware power button to shutdown.

Not really sure what you mean by settings layout and hierarchy.

I quite like Windows font rendering - I prefer it to Mac OS at low DPI settings, haven't gotten around to trying Windows on any of my hidpi displays. Not sure what you mean by inconsistent rendering.

Make something that works on different form factors, without totally redesigning the familiar desktop

They spent about a decade failing at that. Unity is pretty much the only comparable thing (in use case, not in implementation) and we've still got about a year before Apple throws their hat in the ring.

The things that have most people up in arms

As far as I can tell what has most people (not you) up in arms is sensationalist media, an inability to think critically and a detachment from reality.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Aesthetically, the start screen and charms bar are only out of place because of left-over inconsistent aesthetics on the desktop that haven't been updated to the flat look yet.

Ergonomically, I really don't see any problem - the charms bar is never used on the desktop, you should be typing on the start screen if you have a keyboard connected.

Leftover bling and non-updated icons is a problem, this has been a problem with every version of Windows, I wish MS would fix it.

I think there isn't enough settings duplication. As it stands certain things are only available in the Metro settings and certain things are only available in the control panel. I'd prefer every setting that affects non-Metro to be available in the control panel, every setting that affects Metro to be in the Metro settings, and every setting that affects both to be in both settings locations.

I don't have a problem with the shutdown location, on any hardware than can run Windows 8, you can just push the hardware power button to shutdown.

Not really sure what you mean by settings layout and hierarchy.

I quite like Windows font rendering - I prefer it to Mac OS at low DPI settings, haven't gotten around to trying Windows on any of my hidpi displays. Not sure what you mean by inconsistent rendering.



They spent about a decade failing at that. Unity is pretty much the only comparable thing (in use case, not in implementation) and we've still got about a year before Apple throws their hat in the ring.



As far as I can tell what has most people (not you) up in arms is sensationalist media, an inability to think critically and a detachment from reality.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/windows_8_worse_start_vista2012

Thats not sensationalist media. Windows 8 is doing terribly as far as sales go. A lot of Windows 8 PCs are sitting on shelves. Most Windows 8 licenses being sold are for mobile devices. The Metro UI sucks on PCs. I hate that fact it exists. I HOPE Windows 8 fails on the PC so Microsoft will get rid of, or at least downplay the Metro UI in a service pack or in Windows 9.

 

[Zelig]

Windows 8 is doing terribly as far as sales go.

Yes, 60 million sales in the first six weeks is "terrible".

Most Windows 8 licenses being sold are for mobile devices.

This is obviously not the case.

The Metro UI sucks on PCs.

Good thing you don't need to use the Metro UI in Windows 8.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Aesthetically, the start screen and charms bar are only out of place because of left-over inconsistent aesthetics on the desktop that haven't been updated to the flat look yet.

Ergonomically, I really don't see any problem - the charms bar is never used on the desktop, you should be typing on the start screen if you have a keyboard connected.

Leftover bling and non-updated icons is a problem, this has been a problem with every version of Windows, I wish MS would fix it.

I think there isn't enough settings duplication. As it stands certain things are only available in the Metro settings and certain things are only available in the control panel. I'd prefer every setting that affects non-Metro to be available in the control panel, every setting that affects Metro to be in the Metro settings, and every setting that affects both to be in both settings locations.

I don't have a problem with the shutdown location, on any hardware than can run Windows 8, you can just push the hardware power button to shutdown.

Not really sure what you mean by settings layout and hierarchy.

I quite like Windows font rendering - I prefer it to Mac OS at low DPI settings, haven't gotten around to trying Windows on any of my hidpi displays. Not sure what you mean by inconsistent rendering.



They spent about a decade failing at that. Unity is pretty much the only comparable thing (in use case, not in implementation) and we've still got about a year before Apple throws their hat in the ring.



As far as I can tell what has most people (not you) up in arms is sensationalist media, an inability to think critically and a detachment from reality.

Good thing you don't need to use the Metro UI in Windows 8.

It still SUCKS and it sucks BADLY. They are still trying to force people to use Metro by making it the default interface. A very poor decision for PCs. Forcing people to use third party programs just to bring back the start menu is another middle finger from Microsoft. I hate Steve Ballmer. He is an idiot and is killing Microsoft.

 

[Zelig]

It still SUCKS and it sucks BADLY. They are still trying to force people to use Metro by making it the default interface. A very poor decision for PCs. Forcing people to use third party programs just to bring back the start menu is another middle finger from Microsoft. I hate Steve Ballmer. He is an idiot and is killing Microsoft.

Still can't point out any actual thing that Windows 8 does poorly.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Still can't point out any actual thing that Windows 8 does poorly.

I have pointed out how annoying that UI is. That kills Windows 8. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

[Zelig]

I have pointed out how annoying that UI is.

So then you admit that there's nothing that you can do more effectively with Windows 7 than with Windows 8?

Everything else is irreverent.

I see you haven't fixed that yet.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

So then you admit that there's nothing that you can do more effectively with Windows 7 than with Windows 8?



I see you haven't fixed that yet.

The Windows 7 interference is easier to use and has much less of a learning curve. When Windows 7 was launched people going over from XP or Vista had little problems getting used to Windows 7. Windows 8 changes way too much. That Metro UI is annoying and clunky. The start screen taking up a whole screen is, if anything going BACKWARDS. It was unnecessary. The people who came up with these ideas are idoits paranoid by "competition" from the iPad, when tablets are not competing with PCs, they are two different things. Its a step in the wrong direction by Microsoft. A lot of people agree with me. A lot of people are even afraid to even touch Windows 8 and I don't blame them. Its not even worth trying. Let it fail so we can see the start menu return and the desktop become the main focus again.

 

[Zelig]

The Windows 7 interference is easier to use and has much less of a learning curve. When Windows 7 was launched people going over from XP or Vista had little problems getting used to Windows 7. Windows 8 changes way too much. That Metro UI is annoying and clunky. The start screen taking up a whole screen is, if anything going BACKWARDS. It was unnecessary. The people who came up with these ideas are idoits paranoid by "competition" from the iPad, when tablets are not competing with PCs, they are two different things. Its a step in the wrong direction by Microsoft. A lot of people agree with me. A lot of people are even afraid to even touch Windows 8 and I don't blame them. Its not even worth trying. Let it fail so we can see the start menu return and the desktop become the main focus again.

You've still failed to identify a single thing that you can do better in Windows 7 than Windows 8.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

You've still failed to identify a single thing that you can do better in Windows 7 than Windows 8.

I don't need to. The UI alone ruins Windows 8. What part of that do you not get?

 

[Zelig]

I don't need to.

Well you don't need to post here at all, but so far your entire argument is "I don't like the way it looks even though it has more and better features therefore it's the worst thing ever."

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Well you don't need to post here at all, but so far your entire argument is "I don't like the way it looks even though it has more and better features therefore it's the worst thing ever."

Its clunky and unwieldy. I just think is moving backwards.

 

[Zelig]

Its clunky and unwieldy. I just think is moving backwards.

Again you've failed to provide an example of anything you can do better in Windows 7 than in Windows 8.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Again you've failed to provide an example of anything you can do better in Windows 7 than in Windows 8.

When the default interface is as unwieldy as it is in it, you have problems.

 

[Zelig]

When the default interface is as unwieldy as it is in it, you have problems.

Again you've failed to provide an example of anything you can do better in Windows 7 than in Windows 8.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

OK, to break up the repetitiousness of this debate I shall introduce some new material.

1. Zelig says the "modern" flat look is better than any previous MS Windows UI
2. I say the 3D look rules the roost in terms of appealing UI and is by far more modern looking.

Question; who is correct?

 

[Zelig]

Honestly I'm not even particularly set on that point, I don't think it's a particularly important one to the overall quality of Windows 8.

I think aero looks pretty good. I think the Win8 UI looks somewhat better. I think anybody who thinks either of them are the Worst Thing Ever simply has no eye for UI design.

Mac OS uses a ton of gradients and shadows for its windows, and anybody from #fiftychat can back up that I accidentally close the chat on a daily basis because I don't realize what window is active when I'm trying to close something else.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

Honestly I'm not even particularly set on that point, I don't think it's a particularly important one to the overall quality of Windows 8.

I think aero looks pretty good. I think the Win8 UI looks somewhat better. I think anybody who thinks either of them are the Worst Thing Ever simply has no eye for UI design.

Mac OS uses a ton of gradients and shadows for its windows, and anybody from #fiftychat can back up that I accidentally close the chat on a daily basis because I don't realize what window is active when I'm trying to close something else.

I honestly have to say, well played

My answer is it all comes down to personal preference, all of us have different tastes and it's up to the individual to customize his machine to suit those tastes.

I am not saying flat is worse, I am saying that it doesn't appeal to me personally, you are not in the wrong for liking it but you will be in the wrong if you insist everyone should agree with your tastes.
So it comes down to this for me; can you accept that I prefer to run aero on my desktop PC or will you turn your nose up and label me inferior or discriminate against me for doing so?

 

[Zelig]

Nah, Aero is fine, I don't think preferring it to Win8UI is a good reason to use Win7 instead of Win8, but I don't think preferring Aero is unreasonable.

Preferring the Luna to Aero, on the other hand...

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

I will keep using Windows 7 as long as I can. I will likely be one of the last hold outs like the current XP hold outs today unless Microsoft brings back the start menu, gets rid of the Metro UI or at least down plays it as a secondary interface and brings the main focus back the desktop on PCs like it should be. If they don't do this I will have to look to any alternatives out there.