"Wokeist" - When people talk about progressivism without acquaintance

[Narz]

Oh, go ahead and tell us how statistics and reality work, then. Tell us how the income and wealth of black people is completely independent of societal forces that limited them from getting a job or a loan, then threw them in jail for anything it could think of. Tell us how that has nothing whatsoever to do with racism :laughing:



Do you remember the influencing factor that made marijuana criminal? Can you extrapolate from its origin to its harsher enforcement in the drug war? Are you capable of the nuance you espout, or will you ignore how many black people were and are jailed for marijuana, which was criminalized in the first place why? Go ahead, enlighten us.

MJ was made illegal in part due to racism and the desire to control & marginalize blacks and hippies. Also because it's a drug that makes you wonder why tf you're working so hard for someone else's profit (and it cuts into the profits of more profitable drugs like alcohol, tobacco, legal sedatives & narcotics).

I think Berzerkers point is that ending the drug war will help black folk more than endless discussion of racism & making milktoast (sp?) whities think about their privilege & whatnot.

Solve problems 1st & worry about hearts & minds 2nd.

People respond to incentives. Make people feel guilty about driving suvs & eating cheeseburgers will have minimal effect. Tax the **** out of gasoline & beef and people will adapt.

The cultural emphasis on sensitivity over serious structural change is misguided.

 

[Lexicus]

It's not untethered. Material status is downstream of class. Which operates quite well with no material wealth whatsoever. There is always sex.

Material status is class. It is absurd to suggest otherwise.

 

[Lexicus]

MJ was made illegal in part due to racism and the desire to control & marginalize blacks and hippies. Also because it's a drug that makes you wonder why tf you're working so hard for someone else's profit (and it cuts into the profits of more profitable drugs like alcohol, tobacco, legal sedatives & narcotics).

I think Berzerkers point is that ending the drug war will help black folk more than endless discussion of racism & making milktoast (sp?) whities think about their privilege & whatnot.

Solve problems 1st & worry about hearts & minds 2nd.

Again, Democrats voted to federally legalize marijuana twice and Republicans in the Senate won't vote for it.

Edit: oh and in those House votes, all but one Democrat voted for and I think all but one or two Republicans voted against.

But anyway yeah the drug war is obviously a Democrat thing

 

[João III]

Definition of classism
1 : a belief that a person's social or economic station in society determines their value in that society
also : behavior that reflects this belief : prejudice or discrimination based on class

2 : the systemic oppression of the lower class and middle class to the advantage of the upper class

 

[Lexicus]

Definition of classism
1 : a belief that a person's social or economic station in society determines their value in that society
also : behavior that reflects this belief : prejudice or discrimination based on class

2 : the systemic oppression of the lower class and middle class to the advantage of the upper class

Yep, thanks for proving my point.

 

[Narz]

Again, Democrats voted to federally legalize marijuana twice and Republicans in the Senate won't vote for it.

Edit: oh and in those House votes, all but one Democrat voted for and I think all but one or two Republicans voted against.

But anyway yeah the drug war is obviously a Democrat thing

https://www.marijuanamoment.net/aft...bidens-marijuana-promises-remain-unfulfilled/

Don't you get bored knee-jerk blaming everything on the other side?

But despite having the authority to unilaterally issue a mass pardon for people with federal cannabis convictions—as advocates and lawmakers have repeatedly pressed him to do—Biden has only ceremonially pardoned turkeys around Thanksgiving since taking office.

 

[João III]

Yep, thanks for proving my point.

Not really, but that hasn't stopped you before

 

[Senethro]

No, really, its ridiculous to complain that the woke are bad leftists putting insufficient emphasis upon class, and then to use shoddy definitions of class yourself.

 

[Lexicus]

https://www.marijuanamoment.net/aft...bidens-marijuana-promises-remain-unfulfilled/

Don't you get bored knee-jerk blaming everything on the other side?

So, what, am I to understand that it's Joe Biden's fault that every Republican in the House except two voted against the federal legalization of marijuana?
I'm perfectly willing to say Biden is an idiot for not doing those federal marijuana pardons. I don't actually like the Democratic Party, I just really really loathe the Republicans, but somehow according to you this adds up to mindless partisan loyalty to the Democrats. And it's all the funnier given that actual partisan Democrats accuse me of being a Republican whenever I interact with them.

Not really, but that hasn't stopped you before

My point was that "classism" refers to a type of prejudice - which it does, as you helpfully confirmed by posting the dictionary definition. I am not sure exactly what point you were trying to make with your initial post (as "people in the West" is quite vague), but it seemed to me that you were claiming, as Senethro said above, that the "woke" ignore class issues in favor of cultural ones. Which is why it's ironic that you used the term "classism" instead of just "class", because "classism" removes the material component from class and reduces it to yet another type of cultural affect. So saying "people focus insufficiently on classism" does not mean "people focus too much on cultural issues and not enough on class," it means "people focus on the wrong type of cultural issues."

It's all a bit strange to me, but I'm sure that when/if you reply to this post, you're simply going to claim that I am not correctly interpreting your posts while declining to provide a correct interpretation.

 

[João III]

No, really, its ridiculous to complain that the woke are bad leftists putting insufficient emphasis upon class, and then to use shoddy definitions of class yourself.

Except I didn't define class

 

[Senethro]

Except I didn't define class

Should I get my very long fishing reel?

Tell you what, it might be easier if you volunteer some information for once.

 

[Lexicus]

It's all a bit strange to me, but I'm sure that when/if you reply to this post, you're simply going to claim that I am not correctly interpreting your posts while declining to provide a correct interpretation.

Except I didn't define class

Called it

 

[El_Machinae]

What's the definition of class people prefer? And does it get easily explained with reference to the colloquial versions?

 

[Samson]

Class is a difficult word to define. It is definitely different between the US and UK, and I would not want to define either.

Spoiler UK Social classes :

 

[Berzerker]

When have democrats made cancel culture the law of the land? I can name a dozen times Republicans have done so.

Do Jim Crow and the drug war count? We can go further back. The Democrats have been pushing censorship for several years culminating with their Disinformation Governance Board.

Do you remember the influencing factor that made marijuana criminal? Can you extrapolate from its origin to its harsher enforcement in the drug war? Are you capable of the nuance you espout, or will you ignore how many black people were and are jailed for marijuana, which was criminalized in the first place why? Go ahead, enlighten us.

William Randolph Hearst and assorted interests wanted to eliminate hemp so they smeared it as the Mexican's devil weed. The campaign to ban cocaine used the specter of freed black men high on cocaine shouting 'hey, where da the white women at?'

Again, Democrats voted to federally legalize marijuana twice and Republicans in the Senate won't vote for it.

Edit: oh and in those House votes, all but one Democrat voted for and I think all but one or two Republicans voted against.

But anyway yeah the drug war is obviously a Democrat thing

The drug war is bipartisan. How were Democrats voting in the past? They wrote most of the drug laws and they just elected one of the main authors of the past few decades. He doesn't want to legalize pot and they knew that when they voted for him. But it aint gonna matter much, the Democrats are largely in control of ground zero in the drug war and they wont end it. Pot may be legal but the war goes on. The incentives to sell drugs drive black market violence, look at northern Mexico. Our drug war destroys communities beyond the border.

 

[Narz]

So, what, am I to understand that it's Joe Biden's fault that every Republican in the House except two voted against the federal legalization of marijuana?

That's not his fault but he's certainly not committed to taking any executive action & is not keeping his promises.

 

[Angst]

Do Jim Crow and the drug war count? We can go further back. The Democrats have been pushing censorship for several years culminating with their Disinformation Governance Board.

OK, some clearing up here.

Democrats have definitely pushed for censorship in the past, so you are correct and it's contrary to what cardgame suggested. But it kind of because the proposition is kind of muddled. Generally Democrat censorship was before they flipped with the Republicans to take over the left, and vice versa. Historical censorship has been exceedingly right wing save some fringe examples.

And yes of course newer Democrat control attempts exist.

 

[Lexicus]

That's not his fault but he's certainly not committed to taking any executive action & is not keeping his promises.

Yeah, and he also did this garbage a little while back:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-white-house-sandbags-staffers-sidelines-dozens-for-pot-use

Not only is this pretty despicable on the merits, it's politically moronic. You could not pick a better way to infuriate younger voters if you tried.

 

[Narz]

Yes I saw that. Dropping the boot on pot smokers while demanding empathy for his son.

 

[Farm Boy]

Material status is class. It is absurd to suggest otherwise.

Sure. If you need the mush-language caveat. Yes it's teathered to class But it is downstream. An upstart can accumulate wealth, maybe even shockingly large amounts of wealth and buy themselves into class. It happens. But usually not. If hard work alone did it, I'd have gotten a phatty of a pay raise this past year. But that is not how this works. Wealth is downstream of class. Let's look at an example of when class things got screwed up by upheaval: the whole thing is on topic, but I'll pick out 20:00 to 25:00. Watch as the existing class structure reinforces itself and its wealth allocation over the returning foreign class structure of war and the military. Right over our own kids. Like always. When it works differently, it's fortunate.