Won't you sin in Heaven?

[MobBoss]

Why cant you sin in heaven if heaven is perfect and blissful?

Cant god just make it so your sins dont hurt anyone?

Like why cant i murder people that dont exist or have emotions in heaven for instance?

Because sin and God dont mix - much like oil and water. Being in heaven is being in Gods presence 24/7, and sin cannot exist in God's presence - he simply will not allow it.

 

[Sidhe]

I believe it was "In Dreams". It wasnt just about bliss 24/7...the movie itself was quite depressing actually.

Only because of the eternal damnation aspect, and that later proved to be untrue, to me it showed heaven was real, not some hokey fantasy place made of moonbeams and total self delusion. If you found it depressing it's likely because it made sense.

I found it uplifting, if that was heaven it's be better than your version any day.

 

[MobBoss]

Only because of the eternal damnation aspect, and that later proved to be untrue, to me it showed heaven was real, not some hokey fantasy place made of moonbeams and total self delusion. If you found it depressing it's likely because it made sense.

I found it depressing because the mans entire family died in a variety of very depressing ways.

I found it uplifting, if that was heaven it's be better than your version any day.

Uhm...NOPE.

 

[Sidhe]

Hey I find lack of free will depressing but it's obviously subjective.

 

[MobBoss]

Hey I find lack of free will depressing but it's obviously subjective.

And your proof that we wont have free will in heaven is?.....

 

[Xanikk999]

And your proof that we wont have free will in heaven is?.....

We have god seeing what we do 24/7 so if we feel the need to indulge ourselves on food, have sex for pleasure, or any other christian sin thats not really a bad thing we will be kicked out as you said.

 

[Sidhe]

And your proof that we wont have free will in heaven is?.....

Can't sin. Also we have no free will on Earth. Why would heaven be any different, logically speaking I've made this argument alot of times, omniscience=no free will, it's not my argument it's over a millenia old, been debated by all faiths, and it's yet to be show to have an answerable solution.

Good luck with that though

From another post:-

It's far easier to cope with the concept of free will and omniscience(or at least disprove God is omniscience by logic in a philosophical argument, God cannot lie - seriously it's impossible for him to lie - and he tells us we have freewill, but with knowledge of all possible futures and the fate of all men how can freewill exist?) Don't worry you'll find it hard to answer this question, theologians have been throwing this one about for well over a thousand years, and no ones happy with the answers. Of course in the old testament it appears that God is not omniscient or is somewhat all knowing but hazy on detail, by later times he has become truly omniscient, regardless of this not being logically possible and free will existant. In one particularly old Archeological freeze God is depicted with a wife as well(heretics perhaps?) Religions change with time.

What's interesting is if as some people maintain the future does not exist then of course free will springs back into existence, it's my answer to the question but then I'm sure I'm not the first to think of it, I suspect it might of been Einstein but who believes in science?

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Don't think any of you lot have to worry about getting into heaven, especially those with sinful thoughts and then wanting to do them in heaven.

If you do lose freewill in heaven, then may as well get started on this heaven thing will a frontal labotomy pronto.

 

[Bill3000]

As compared to temporary immortality?

Hey, an immortal on earth can at least try to find a way to strip himself of it, can do whatever he wants, and will eventually be gone anyway if the universe ends.

With immortality in an afterlife, you can't do that. There is no such thing as an "end".

 

[MobBoss]

We have god seeing what we do 24/7 so if we feel the need to indulge ourselves on food, have sex for pleasure, or any other christian sin thats not really a bad thing we will be kicked out as you said.

I didnt say we would be kicked out, but only gave that as a possible, but improbable, option of what might happen in heaven.

I personally dont think you can be "kicked" out of heaven once you are there. And before you mention Lucifer, please realize that he wasnt human, so all bets are off there.

 

[Kyriakos]

In heaven, everything is fine
in heaven, everything is fine
in heaven, everything is fine

Until you happen to look at the baby's head. Then it isnt so fine

 

[MobBoss]

Can't sin.

Why does free will always equate to sin? Example: In heaven, I may want to read several books - does God pick for me which book I should read? No, I am willing to bet I get to choose which book to read...and that is still free will.

I think we will be able to still experience free will in heaven with an absence of sin.

Also we have no free will on Earth.

Sorry, but you are directly wrong on this point. Of course you have free will.

Why would heaven be any different, logically speaking I've made this argument alot of times, omniscience=no free will, it's not my argument it's over a millenia old, been debated by all faiths, and it's yet to be show to have an answerable solution.

Omniscience does not equate to God making all your decisions for you. YOU still decide to do X every day you are alive. You could, for example, decide not to post on this forum ever again....

 

[Sidhe]

It's an illusion since no matter what you chose your fate is set in stone, you may believe you have it and you are making choices but all choices lead to a set path. Fate bound is not free will even if you believe it is, so God is lying or he is not omniscient, take your pick. Seriously Mob Boss, if the best philosophers of the last millenia can't argue this one, what makes you think your going to stumble on an answer and anyway Einstien already did.

Why would I deprive you of a ranting post Mob Boss. You love it go on admit it, you'd get bored if everyone agreed with you.

 

[Kyriakos]

You could make the distinction between the collective actions/dispositions of everyone else in regards to you + you own understanding of their meaning, and then the rest of your plans, thoughts, perspectives. Fate inevitably is coloured in the same way as anything else in your life; it couldnt be made of colours you have no ability of seing. For example a depressed person may view someone as friendly, but he will still be viewing him/her in depressed ways.

 

[Sidhe]

Again all shades of illusion from an objective point of view and delusion from a subject point of view. Ignorance is no counter to fate.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Nope. Actually helping someone and making a difference in their life is the best part of life.

I am a petty, petty man.

 

[El_Machinae]

Why does free will always equate to sin?

Why create a universe with sin in it (as what happened here) when He could have created a universe without sin, even while keeping free will.

It seems that sin and free will are quite bound. Whenever I ask why there's evil, I'm responded "cause there's free will"

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Why create a universe with sin in it (as what happened here) when He could have created a universe without sin, even while keeping free will.

It seems that sin and free will are quite bound. Whenever I ask why there's evil, I'm responded "cause there's free will"

Well, that's just it. He couldn't give us free will without sin, because it is a simple fact that if enough people are given enough choices, some of them will make the wrong ones. Evil is the result of free will because some people who have free will do things that cause other people to suffer and themselves to harm their relationship with God. That is evil.

 

[El_Machinae]

Right. I get that ... so .... will there be sin after you die?

 

[warpus]

Well, that's just it. He couldn't give us free will without sin, because it is a simple fact that if enough people are given enough choices, some of them will make the wrong ones. Evil is the result of free will because some people who have free will do things that cause other people to suffer and themselves to harm their relationship with God. That is evil.

What El Machinae said - is heaven going to contain a) free will or b) sin ?