World Cup 2010 Final!

[Darkness]

And we didn't "ask for cards" as a mean to win, liek you are saying. We asked for them bc the refere ahd to stop the massacre. Or do you think we would have "asked for cards" if the dutch would have behaved?

No disrespect intended, but they absolutely would have asked for cards even if the game hadn't been so hard.
I see Xavi and especially Iniesta do this all the time in the champions league.

But this didn't decide the game of course. The game was decided by Spain's better play and Robben missing that golden opportunity.

 

[El Koeno]

@El Koeno. I agree with you that you can't blame the whole team for the actions of a few. But I certainly don't agree with your statement that the ref decided the outcome. If anything he kept it more open. It's beyond me how he could let De Jong play on after that attack...

Yes, Puyol and maybe Iniesta should have both gotten yellow-red..but at the same time around 3 dutchmen should have been sent off.

The ref might not have decided the match. Like I said, Spain was the better team and deserved to win. But he played a decisive role in extra time. Every time Iniesta dropped, it was a yellow card. Why? At that time the play was not that tough anymore. He forgot to give The Netherlands an obvious corner kick. Both instances contributed to the 1-0. So he did play a decisive role, but like I said, not at all intentionally, and overall he did quite a good job.

As for three Dutch players having to be sent off: De Jong, I agree. He could have been sent off. Which other two Dutchmen? I really didn't even see Van Bommel grossly misbehaving. Yes he was tough, but not to the extent that it was "a massacre", like Iniesta and Xavi wanted the ref to believe. And the third player? I don't know. People say Robben should have gotten a second yellow, but that would have been overdone. He had a point when he complained to the ref (though he probably deserved the yellow), and to then give a second for kicking the ball after an off-side call? Come on...

Mind you, my main gripe here is with the emphasis on the negative aspects of the Dutch game, not with the job Webb did. I think the negativity is overdone, and I think to some extent it's due to theatrics by Spain, and to some extent it's due to Holland's reputation as a side that plays good football.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

it was nice to see the overrated Robben showing that he's a great dribbler, but not much more. De Jong should have been sent off, that was a red card if I ever saw one, Materazzi-like

in the end, the best team won, even though Spain failed to impress. they were having too hard a time scoring all throughout the tournament, they should have known El Nino was not going to be on form at all for this WC and should have planned their attack differently. they played a lot like Barça, but they were lacking Messi... poor Lionel having to play with a team with a fat imbecil drug addict as a coach... a fat imbecil that can do whatever he pleases because the Argentinian are always going to love him no matter what what a shame for Argentina, this one was a huge lost opportunity.

 

[Grisu]

As for three Dutch players having to be sent off: De Jong, I agree. He could have been sent off. Which other two Dutchmen?

I guess my wording was a bit ambigous...when I said should have I, in my mind, included the one who actually has been sent of

I really didn't even see Van Bommel grossly misbehaving. Yes he was tough, but not to the extent that it was "a massacre", like Iniesta and Xavi wanted the ref to believe. And the third player? I don't know. People say Robben should have gotten a second yellow, but that would have been overdone. He had a point when he complained to the ref (though he probably deserved the yellow), and to then give a second for kicking the ball after an off-side call? Come on...

well, I've seen many players getting carded for some of the fouls Van Bommel committed...and yes in other games Robben would have been sent of. That is quite often a yellow card. Though doing it in a WC-Final would have been overdone, I agree.

Mind you, my main gripe here is with the emphasis on the negative aspects of the Dutch game, not with the job Webb did. I think the negativity is overdone, and I think to some extent it's due to theatrics by Spain, and to some extent it's due to Holland's reputation as a side that plays good football.

Well, I agree....the dutch were not the evil empire or anything The only really nasty thing was De Jong's action
I just don't believe that the game would have not ended in Spain's favour had the ref whistled everything 100% correctly.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

and to some extent it's due to Holland's reputation as a side that plays good football.

Spain had the players to play Holland style football and did so because of the influence of Dutch coaches the last decade. Holland didn't have the players to do so. So the options they had was play attacking football and get kicked out early in the tournament, or play a system that fitted the players and reach the finals. Easy choice to make.

 

[El Koeno]

I just don't believe that the game would have not ended in Spain's favour had the ref whistled everything 100% correctly.

While I don't want to blame the ref for losing or whatever, Spain's goal came awfully short after him not awarding an obvious corner. The Dutch players had every right to be furious. But I agree that they can't really blame his booking policy.

 

[Frank Drebin]

this world cup final looked more like an english championship match.

congratulations to spain.

 

[Nomnomnom]

While history will say Spain became the champions, I think the Netherlands can leave with their heads held high. The red card was not deserved and Spain dives as much as Italy. At least the Dutch played honorably.

 

[madviking]

What did everyone think of Howard Webb?

I thought he did the best he could in a very violent match. Most of the yellows were deserved, on both sides. I think one of his few faults was not giving de Jong a red.

 

[azzaman333]

What did everyone think of Howard Webb?

I thought he did the best he could in a very violent match. Most of the yellows were deserved, on both sides. I think one of his few faults was not giving de Jong a red.

Not good, but it was a very difficult match to ref. He was better than most of the other refs that I've seen.

 

[J-man]

Not good, but it was a very difficult match to ref. He was better than most of the other refs that I've seen.

I fully agree. This also shows that football needs video aid for the referee imho.

 

[Marla_Singer]

In a regular championship game, Van Bommel would have got a straight red at the 22nd minute. And I don't even talk here about De Jong's assault.

 

[Takhisis]

Actually, it was one of thew worst performances by a referee ever. A couple yellows in the first half to Spain for diving -and Puyol for grabbing Robben-, send off de Jong -shoryuuuken!!- and van Bommel in the first half, and that should be it. None of the rest would have happened.

 

[luiz]

Cruyff's opinion on the Final, for what it's worth:

World Cup final: Johan Cruyff hits out at 'anti-football' Holland

Johan Cruyff has launched a scathing attack on Holland's performance in their 1-0 defeat to Spain in the World Cup final last night, slamming their "dirty" tactics and their style of "anti-football".

Cruyff was at the heart of the Holland team that earned a reputation of playing Total Football in the 1970s, and the pioneer of the style that earned the Dutch the reputation of being a joy to watch. The current Holland team played in a style that was the antithesis of that last night and a disappointed Cruyff admits it saddened him to witness their thuggery.

"On Thursday they asked me from Holland 'Can we play like Inter? Can we stop Spain in the same way Mourinho eliminated Barça?'" Cruyff told El Periódico, in reference to the way Internazionale defended their way to a Champions League semi-final victory over Barcelona.

"I said no, no way at all. I said no, not because I hate this style – I said no because I thought that my country wouldn't dare to and would never renounce their style. I said no because, without having great players like those of the past, the team has its own style.

"I was wrong. Of course I'm not hanging all 11 of them by the same rope, but almost. They didn't want the ball.

"And regrettably, sadly, they played very dirty. So much so that they should have been down to nine immediately, then they made two [such] ugly and hard tackles that even I felt the damage.

"It hurts me that I was wrong in my disagreement that instead Holland chose an ugly path to aim for the title.

"This ugly, vulgar, hard, hermetic, hardly eye-catching, hardly football style, yes it served the Dutch to unsettle Spain. If with this they got satisfaction, fine, but they ended up losing. They were playing anti-football."

Cruyff has also joined in with the criticism of the referee, Howard Webb, who has been heavily attacked for the way he managed last night's stormy game.

Webb dished out 14 yellow cards – including two to send off the Holland defender John Heitinga – but Cruyff believes he could have been even firmer, and should have dished out a red card for Nigel de Jong's karate kick to the chest of Xabi Alonso as well as handing a second booking to Arjen Robben for kicking the ball away.

Cruyff added: "When we say, often, that we do not like talking about referees, it is true and, above all, because only refereeing like that last night by the Englishman Howard Webb can create in us a state of such indignation that then, yes, it is necessary to comment.

"Because you can referee wrongly, make a mistake, but what you cannot do is create your own sense of justice and, even worse, invent a very personal application of the rules.

"Not only did he not send off two Dutchmen but he also looked the other way at times when he should have involved himself.

"A World Cup final deserves great refereeing and, above all, deserves a referee who dares to do everything it means to be a judge."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/12/world-cup-final-johan-cruyff-holland

 

[MCdread]

Actually, it was one of thew worst performances by a referee ever. A couple yellows in the first half to Spain for diving -and Puyol for grabbing Robben-, send off de Jong -shoryuuuken!!- and van Bommel in the first half, and that should be it. None of the rest would have happened.

But what else happened that's not relatively normal? Or do you mean that if, say, van Bommel gets a red card earlier than De Jong might be a bit less inclined to raise his leg?

It's true though that players kept pressing the ref and verbally abusing him and everyone else on the pitch which might have been avoided if he had played his cards right.

 

[GinandTonic]

Apart from je Jong I thought Webb made the best of a bad situation.

 

[Chakram Bearer]

Spain is an absolute madness now! I can't remember another night as noisy as the one we had yesterday. And we're still partying!

I think it was a deserved victory. It was a shame the match wasn't the most fun to watch though -too many fouls and cards.

¡Viva España!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Apart from je Jong I thought Webb made the best of a bad situation.

Webb made the same mistake another ref (Russian, forgot his name) made in a match Holland - Portugal. He should have produced a red card in the first half. Just awarding yellow told the players: you can do this and get away with yellow. The Dutch team would have been down to 10 men, but they would have been warned appropriately that this was over the line. Instead he just showed yellows and to make up for it, I think he was very lenient towards Spain when they crossed the line. I think he didn't want to ruin the final with an early red card. But you have to do what you have to do.

Sure, we'd probably have lost 3 or 4 nil, but rather that then the display we saw yesterday.

 

[Marla_Singer]

People will start thinking I want to change every football rules... but if it was possible to send off players only temporarily (let's say for 10 minutes), the referee wouldn't have hesitated that much in 1st HT. I can understand Webb's doubts. He didn't want to be remembered as "the guy who spoiled the final".

I agree that direct permanent exclusion adds more drama to the game. However, it's also true that temporary exclusions would be very handful for the referees.

 

[MCdread]

Cruyff's opinion on the Final, for what it's worth:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/12/world-cup-final-johan-cruyff-holland

Don't know what games of football has Cruijff been seeing lately. Maybe he didn't watch the first leg of that Inter-Barcelona semi. Or how peekaboo Busquets got Motta sent off in the 2nd. And the Netherlands have played 6 more games in the WC where people have been able to see how they play, and what are their strengths and weaknesses. Finally, as for accusations of lack of sportsmanship everyone knows how van Bommel plays the game and that Robben is one of the most prolific divers in world football, if not the most.
Not that it justifies anything, but if Cruijff is fuming at how surprised he was to see the type of game the final was, then he mustn't have been paying attention.