Would your country steal money like Cyprus ?

What other alternative is there?
A. A bailout of the country which is partially paid for by citizens/accountholders.
B. Let the country default and the banks collapse

If they don't want A then there's not much choice left

For goodness sakes. They lent 10 billion and for the sake of 6 more they risk the entire global economy?

European leaders must surely know that they are taking a big risk with Cyprus. The danger is obvious. Now that everybody with money in Cypriot banks is being forced to take a hit, nervous depositors elsewhere in Europe might notice that a dangerous precedent has been set. Rather than run even a small risk of an unwanted financial “haircut” in the future, the customers of Greek, Spanish, Portuguese or Italian banks might choose to get their money out now. If that starts to happen, the euro crisis will be back on again – with a vengeance.

The people behind the Cyprus plan hope that the risks of contagion are small. They reckon that the Spanish banks are on the mend, and that Greece too has pulled back from the brink. There is no reason for depositors to draw lessons from the peculiar case of Cyprus, whose banks are stuffed with Russian money.

Maybe so. And yet EU leaders have got these kinds of calculations badly wrong before. At a summit in Deauville in September 2010, they announced that the holders of sovereign bonds in bailed-out countries would lose some of their money. The result was a severe worsening of the euro crisis, as investors began to demand much higher rates to lend to risky-seeming countries, such as Italy or Spain.

So why – after all the painstaking efforts to put euro-humpty back together again – have European leaders taken such a gamble in Cyprus? The answer is that they too are out of credit – political credit.

This credit shortfall takes different forms in northern and southern Europe. For leaders of nations such as Germany, the Netherlands and Finland, there was a sense that their voters and parliaments just would not approve another bailout – unless heavy penalties were attached.


http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cd6ad842-8fc0-11e2-ae9e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2Nw0I4Mem

This is a risk no sane person should have taken. In a time of massive debts and global deflation every bank in the world is essentially insolvent. Each are massive counterparties of the others. Just as in 2008. Total derivatives market is 20 times the global economy. If a bank run starts it could bring the global economy to a halt in mere days and the damage would take generations to repair.

This over 6 billion in a 60 trillion global economy? Maybe one in a hundred people in the world can be made to understand the finer points of the Cypriot situation, but 99 of 100 will feel unease at the news that guaranteed, insured deposits were seized from the public by a national government.

This is the stuff panics are made of. I still can't believe it. The people who did this ought to be shot.
 
I just agreed with everything MisterCooper said. Where do I go from here?
 
For goodness sakes. They lent 10 billion and for the sake of 6 more they risk the entire global economy?
I think you get it wrong. They could easily do this because Cyprus just doesn't matter, even for the Eurozone economy. The machinery will continue to roll, no matter how the costs will be split in the end. However, for EU authorities, it is a test how far they can go without facing open revolt. Turns out, it's still not enough.
 
I think you get it wrong. They could easily do this because Cyprus just doesn't matter, even for the Eurozone economy. The machinery will continue to roll, no matter how the costs will be split in the end. However, for EU authorities, it is a test how far they can go without facing open revolt. Turns out, it's still not enough.

Well, I read that some major German bankster is eyeing Italian depositors at the tune of 15%. Why not?

“A tax rate of 15% on financial assets would probably be enough to push the Italian government debt to below the critical level of 100% of gross domestic product.”

Hey Strawman, want some popcorn with that gasoline? Burn baby, burn.
 
For goodness sakes. They lent 10 billion and for the sake of 6 more they risk the entire global economy?
The problem is that the leader's hands are also tied.

There's enormous resentment in the population (in my country at least, and I doubt in Germany it is much different) against giving more money to troubled countries. And the plans must be ratified by the parliament.

In the Netherlands there have been tax rises and a lot of austerity measures and a lot more measures are in the planning to get the balance within European rules (total deficit below 70% GDP, not more than 3% deficit yearly) and every time there's another bailout of a country it means that the government needs to take another austerity measure to get the balance properly within the rules.

People here feel that it's only fair that the people of Cyprus (and other countries) also pay a bit themselves for their own bailouts instead of relying on our money. Factor in that half of it is Russian (criminal) money.

Mind you, the latest news is that the Cypriot government isn't ratifying the plan.
Which begs the question what is going to happen now.
 
Negotiations in the Cyprus parliament on the fate of the deposit levy have been again pushed further back and are now scheduled for Thursday, Cyprus Broadcasting Corporation reported Tuesday.

Various media report that Cyprus finance minister Michael Sarris has resigned, each citing its own sources.
Michael Sarris is in Moscow Tuesday to meet with Russian officials over the Cyprus bank bailout package, so the timing of the reports raises questions.

It is also reported the President Nicos Anastasiades refused to accept Sarris’s resignation.

Cyprus was supposed to regroup on Tuesday after Monday’s stalled negotiations to meet the EU demands for a €5.8 billion slice from bank deposits as part of their €10 billion ($13 billion) bailout package. The government says it needs the bailout, or it will go bankrupt.

The Cypriot government has submitted draft bill to parliament scrapping a controversial levy on bank deposits up to €20,000, Reuters reports on Tuesday. The draft sets a zero percent levy on deposits of up to €20,000 euros, a 6.75% rate for amounts between €20,000 and €100,000 euros and maintains a 9.9% tax on all deposits above that level.

But according to Cyprus' Central Bank chief Panicos Demetriades the country will fall short of €5.8 billion revenue target with revised structure of bank levy, Reuters reports.

The original proposal sought to tax accounts under €100,000 at 6.75%, and those over €100,000 at 9.9%, which sent the island into a swarm of protest both from parliament and the people who could lose a part of their savings. Euro zone ministers issued a statement on Monday suggesting Cyprus exempt depositors with less than €100,000 from the tax levy.

"It looks like it won't pass," Cypriot government spokesman Christos Stylianides told state radio.

“When I warned you that there would not be a parliamentary majority to pass the agreement, you didn’t want to listen. Give my regards to Mrs. Merkel,” Cypriot President Nicos Anastasiades said after the bill was turned down.

The Cypriot Finance Ministers issued the following joint statement on Monday:

“Cypriot authorities will introduce more progressivity in the one-off levy compared to what was agreed on March 16, provided that it continues yielding the targeted reduction of the financing envelope and, hence, not impact the overall amount of financial assistance.”

The vote that will take place Tuesday at 6:00pm. It has already been postponed twice since Sunday and could be further delayed until Thursday or Friday. Banks are expected to remain closed until a decision is made.

The 56 seat legislature is split, which has caused the delay in passing the proposed tax levy. President Nicos Anastasiade’s party controls 20 seats, and needs 9 more votes to pass the bailout deal. The communist Akel party (19 seats), and Edek party (5 seats) both oppose the idea. The state run news outlet CYBC has reported that DIKO (8 seats) would also vote against the bill.

“It is important that Cyprus and its euro- area partners work to resolve the situation in a way that is responsible and fair and ensures financial stability,” the US Treasury told Bloomberg.

The Cyprus tax provisions renewed old skepticism of the EU’s stability and concern that Europe would plunge into crisis again shook the markets on Monday. The Euro hit a year-low against the dollar, at $1.2951.

European markets opened weak, the FTSE 100, a benchmark, is down 28 points 0.45% and the German DAX is down 0.4%.

“There was general panic in response to the Cypriot deal yesterday but now, after some reassessment, markets are realizing it’s a special case and so the risk of contagion is low,” Nader Naeimi, from AMP Capital Investors Ltd, in Sydney, told Bloomberg.

Another quick cash option on the discussion floor is increasing the corporate tax rate from 10 percent to 12.5 percent.

Nicosia protest governments ‘bank raid’

As the government strategizes how to distribute the 5.8 billion euro burden among its citizens, Cypriots have taken to the streets in protest.

The measure infuriated ordinary Cypriots, who staged loud demonstrations. Anti-EU sentiment filled the capital on Monday, as crowds amassed with banners chastising Angela Merkel as a ‘thief’ out to steal Cypriot money.

Protestors painted their palms with the word ‘No’, in solidarity against taxing their life savings. Cypriots feel the burden of the EU crisis is unfairly resting on their shoulders, as it’s the first time in the euro crisis history where ordinary citizens have been asked to contribute to a bailout plan. Whereas the government sees it as necessary protocol, those who could lose up to 15% of their bank holdings see it as ‘legalized bank robbery’.

Cyprus’s banking association issued a statement calling on people to remain “calm,” reassuring the government is ready to implement any measure needed to protect the stability of the country’s banking sector.

Not placated by their government’s promise, Cypriots scurried to empty their life savings from ATMs, fearing the impending bank account raid.

"If you're a small depositor in Cyprus you'll tell yourself that it would have been better to keep your money under the carpet than in a bank," a French bank executive who declined to be named told Reuters.

The Cyprus crisis has also probed worries about if the same could happen in Spain or Italy.

"And if you're a Greek, a Spaniard or an Italian, well, you'll tell yourself that you might be next,” added the French source.

Cyprus caught between the EU and Russia

The Kremlin has not taken kindly to the news of the proposed tax levy. President Putin has denounced it as criminal and Prime Minister Medvedev believes money is being unfairly ‘confiscated’.

Moscow’s Finance Minister, Anton Siluanov, warned that Russia may no longer be willing to extend a €2.5 billion loan to Nicosia, if the tax levy goes through. Cyprus is highly dependent on Russia for bail out aid, and in 2012 requested €5 billion in assistance from Russia.

According to ratings agency Moody’s, Russians hold $31 billion in Cyprus banks and could lose more than $3 billion in levy. Nearly a third of all the money in the Cyprus banking sector is Russian, which has raised the question if the Russians are really the main target of the tax.

Foreigners hold almost 40% of the €68 billion in Cypriot banks, who take advantage of the island’s low tax rates and light regulation. The corporate tax rate in Cyprus is 10%, half of Russia’s.

If Cyprus passes the tax legislation, which directly targets Russians, future loans will be re-evaluated.

“It turns out that the Eurogroup has moved to tax deposits without discussion with Russia, so we will look again at the question of whether we take part in restructuring the existing loan,” Siluanov said.

President Vladimir Putin dubbed the proposed deposit levy as "unfair, unprofessional and dangerous." Many Russians are known to keep their savings off-shore in Cypriot banks.

“He [Putin] definitely acknowledged that he is not in favor of such a decision because in terms of the view of lots of experts this decision means a kind of expropriation of private money, expropriation of private property,” Russian’ president’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov told RT. “Definitely this can seriously jeopardize trust in the monetary system and in the banking system of the eurozone.”

http://rt.com/business/bailout-or-bankrupt-cypriots-and-russians-hold-their-breath-474/

Russians speaking out against the expropriation of private property....what has the world come to?
 
Cypriots feel the burden of the EU crisis is unfairly resting on their shoulders, as it’s the first time in the euro crisis history where ordinary citizens have been asked to contribute to a bailout plan.
How myopic can you even be? Ask any Greek to see that this claim is completely wrong.
 
Yes, this is making Putin look more trustworthy than all of Europe.
 
Why is it that:
when people elect a government that either lies to them (as Greece did) about the public's finances - or - they elect a government with a mandate to borrow more than they can really afford,

that when $%&@ hit's the fan, it's then the governments who come to the rescue fault?
 
Why is it that:
when people elect a government that either lies to them (as Greece did) about the public's finances - or - they elect a government with a mandate to borrow more than they can really afford,

that when $%&@ hit's the fan, it's then the governments who come to the rescue fault?

Because they are immoral people who abuse the public trust. They are immoral people because power corrupts. Government is the problem. Always.

Why did you think that government exists? To help us? No, be not foolish. Governments exist to rule over us. The larger and more centralized it is the more evil it becomes.
 
But I still don't see how people can attack other governments and other people when it was their own governments and themselves who failed to act responsibly. I understand that the way the Eurozone was set up was deeply flawed and Germany and other still-solvent nations abused the system in ways that Greece and the others did to some extent.

The difference of course, is that Germany could fiscally afford doing those things and can also afford being on the hook for the nations that couldn't. Yet the members of those nations believe it's all the Germans fault and that they're basically still Nazis.
 
"Let us never forget that government is ourselves and not an alien power over us. The ultimate rulers of our democracy are not a President and senators and congressmen and government officials, but the voters of this country."

-Franklin D. Roosevelt
 
"Let us never forget that government is ourselves and not an alien power over us. The ultimate rulers of our democracy are not a President and senators and congressmen and government officials, but the voters of this country."

-Franklin D. Roosevelt

Well, that's what they say. They lie. Surprise, surprise.
 
But I still don't see how people can attack other governments and other people when it was their own governments and themselves who failed to act responsibly. I understand that the way the Eurozone was set up was deeply flawed and Germany and other still-solvent nations abused the system in ways that Greece and the others did to some extent.

The difference of course, is that Germany could fiscally afford doing those things and can also afford being on the hook for the nations that couldn't. Yet the members of those nations believe it's all the Germans fault and that they're basically still Nazis.

This is akin to the hatred of immigrant Hispanics in America by those who were born here. People think they have stolen their jobs and are responsible for our woes. Of course it is not the proper way to look at things. The evildoers are those in the Federal government who failed to act in the interests of the country as a whole.

In Europe, its not the Germans that should be hated. It is those who have cobbled together this Federal Union that is called the Eurozone, which is done of course in the naked pursuit of power. Having created this mess they now masquerade as saviors. Which of course suits their interest of "ever closer union".

Hobbs, you are looking at things from the persective that the elites want you to. Stop looking at individual trees. Pan back and look at the forest and you'll see the evil shadow that lurks above all.
 
I thought the creation of the Eurozone was a priority for many Europeans and enjoyed broad support among the member nations? :dunno: I'm not too familiar with it though because
USA#1! > EU
 
Broad support is stretching it a bit.

Governments exist to rule over us. The larger and more centralized it is the more evil it becomes.

Then you should love the EU, it's neither a government nor centralized. Which could be argued is one of the reasons things are going south in the......south:cooool:



Spoiler :
I'm not good at imitating carruso in text
 
I thought the creation of the Eurozone was a priority for many Europeans and enjoyed broad support among the member nations? :dunno: I'm not too familiar with it though because
USA#1! > EU

OMG you fool, the Federal government of the enslaved Americans is exponentially eviler than the Eurozoners.

Repent! Repent!

:sad:
 
Broad support is stretching it a bit.



Then you should love the EU, it's neither a government nor centralized. Which could be argued is one of the reasons things are going south in the......south:cooool:

The reason things are going south is because they were engineered to do so by those evildoers that want to create the United States of Europe.

Remember the slogan, "Don't let a crisis go to waste", this is the method the snakes use to tighten their grip.
 
I'm pretty shocked the EU demanded this.
It hasn't. The EU simply said that there should be a participation, it's Cyprus itself which has made this decision.
In fact, even Germany said it didn't approve the way it was handled and thought that accounts with less than 100k € should be left untouched.
 
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