WTC Mosque Part Four!!!

[Tee Kay]

For crying out loud, Hassan Nassrallah and Hezbollah can even draw the distinction between a Lebanese Jew and an Israeli soldier who happens to be a Jew. So how is it that Americans can’t distinguish between American Muslims who were victims of 9/11 and Saudi Muslims who were the perpetrators of 9/11?

This proves it, religious tolerance is the way of the terrorists!

America must not follow such a path!

 

[bernie14]

darn.....i missed about 15 pages....let's see if we can pickup where we left off...

formaldahyde said:Once again, you are trying to conflate voluntary arbitration with the existing legal system within the country which still obviously exists. Since this was clearly pointed out to you by both myself and Traitorfish, I can only assume this is intentional on your part.

and once again, u r limiting the scope of the argument to obviously include only your narrow view, the article included both pros and cons, i can only assume this is intentional on your part.

formaldahyde said: Are you suggesting you actually read that book instead of finding some comment on a website whose URL you apparently don't want to post?

And there's no mention of Sharia law in that statement. Does that means that you can provide no proof to support this assertion?

are u assuming that i did not read the book?....ive read more than that, ive read most of the koran (with my friend "basam", but he likes to be called sam and mohammed, who prefers to be called mike , although not in arabic, which i have been told sorta spoils the message.....

and what do u mean there is no mention of sharia law....the book is all about sharia and the huffington post article was all about sharia....i used the link from the huffingtonpost cuz i thought most far left liberals were familiar with that trash...if i would have used some unfamiliar links, your heads might have blown up



PS...i terribly apologize if i have not responded to your smears and insults, my fault, please repost and i will get to them ASAP

 

[_random_]

agreed, if you also support the construction of our historic Orthodox Church that was destroyed in the attack. It housed 600 year old sacred relics that now gone forever!

Certainly. In a way, this mosque could prove itself to be "a blessing in disguise" for the Church. George Stefanaupolis (the son of a priest) and Rush Limbaugh (an asshat who can get people's attention) both discussed the church at some length when Park51 was major news. It's not massive media attention, granted, but it could be enough of a push to resume talks with the city of reconstruction. Through the prayers of St. Nicholas, may it be so.

 

[Formaldehyde]

How about a statue inside to Ward Churchill as well? Fitting?

How about a monument inside commemorating all the foreign policy blunders which led up to much of the world hating the US government so much. Blunders that eventually resulted in terrorist attacks such as 9/11. Appropriate?

and once again, u r limiting the scope of the argument to obviously include only your narrow view, the article included both pros and cons, i can only assume this is intentional on your part.

My "view" on this subject isn't "narrow" in the least. I suggest you reread the article again because it essentially refutes your argument here. It was quite clear that Sharia law isn't the great evil the reactionaries try to make it out to be to rationalize their enmity towards Muslims, especially in countries with existing secular laws and constitutions that directly prohibit much of these laws which only exist in a few backward countries.

Once again, Imam Rauf is a respected moderate Muslim who has been venerated by both the Bush administration and the Obama administration for his peaceful views on Islam. If he is really so terrible as you keep insinuating, why hasn't any mainstream media picked up on it by now? Specifically, why isn't Fox News repeating it endlessly?

are u assuming that i did not read the book?....

So you claim you did? Specifically, which book was that? And, specifically, what exactly did he say about bringing Sharia law to the US? The article you keep posting certainly doesn't mention it.

PS...i terribly apologize if i have not responded to your smears and insults, my fault, please repost and i will get to them ASAP

You mean like claiming above that I have "narrow views"?

If you actually think I have "smeared" or "insulted" you, I suggest you take it up with the moderators instead of me.

 

[BSmith1068]

Wow… Thread 4. This has to be one of the longest “discussions” we’ve had in OT, no?

Oh, and:

 

[Formaldehyde]

Bloomberg on the Daily Show (2:30 in):

This mosque has been operating for over a year. There is nothing new here. The difference is we are in an election season and this whole issue, I think, will go away right after the next election. This is plain and simple people trying to stir up things, get publiclity, and try to polarize people so that they can get some votes. And I don't think these people yelling and screaming really don't care one way or the other.

The family members, they do care. And family members I've talked to, and I'm Chairman of the Board of the WTC Memorial, are 100% in favor of saying these people who want to build a mosque can build a mosque.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I pointed out the Republicans have the xenophibic, simpleton and bigot vote sewn up already, so it's pointless.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

How about a statue inside to Ward Churchill as well? Fitting?

Wait, Ward Churchill was killed in the World Trade Center on 9/11? And he still made those statements about it afterwards? Maybe we should build statues of him in religious buildings.

Cleo

 

[MobBoss]

How about a monument inside commemorating all the foreign policy blunders which led up to much of the world hating the US government so much. Blunders that eventually resulted in terrorist attacks such as 9/11. Appropriate?

Shifting responsibility much? I dont have any respect for Ward Churchill, and the man is vile in his opinions. Do you agree then, with Ward Churchill's 'little Eichmann's' comment?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Shifting responsibility much? I dont have any respect for Ward Churchill, and the man is vile in his opinions. Do you agree then, with Ward Churchill's 'little Eichmann's' comment?

Strawman and red herring much? I've never claimed anything regarding Ward Churchill or his views, and it obviously has nothing to do with this thread as others have already pointed out.

A drunk did a Lebowski to prayer rungs in a Queens mosque:

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/67852...e-of-hate-crime-stabbing-cab-driver-urinating

Concern is growing in the US over a wave of anti-Islamic feeling, articulated in vandalism and attacks, after a New York mosque was desecrated by a drunken yob who urinated on prayer mats.

The incident, which happened in the New York City borough of Queens, is the latest in a series of crimes that have come in the wake of the Ground Zero mosque controversy.

As the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center approaches, property developer Sharif el-Gamal's proposal for a Muslim community centre and mosque within two blocks of Ground Zero has divided public opinion in the usually ultra-tolerant city.

While it is not yet certain that the controversy motivated the recent desecration, it has been cited as lying behind several other incidents.

On Wednesday night, the drunken man burst into the Queens mosque during prayers, shouted abuse, called worshippers "terrorists" and then urinated on prayer mats. Identified as Omar Rivera, he had apparently been drinking for five days.

Worshipper Mustapha Sadouki said: "He stuck up his middle finger and cursed at everyone. No one can pray now because the rugs are completely soiled. It was disgusting." Police arrested Rivera and charged him with criminal trespass.

In a more serious incident on Tuesday, New York cab driver Ahmed H Sharif was left in a serious condition in hospital by his fare, 21-year-old documentary film student Michael Enright, who allegedly stabbed him because he was Muslim.

Enright appeared in shackles in court on Wednesday. A podgy, preppy college kid with a babyish face, he could serve as many as 25 years in jail for an appalling attack.

Recently returned from a five-week embed with US marines in Helmand province, Afghanistan, Enright hailed Sharif’s cab on Tuesday night. At first, he seemed friendly, speaking to Sharif in Arabic, before asking if he was a Muslim.

When Sharif (pictured, in a white shirt, speaking to supporters outside City Hall on Thursday) assented, Enright, who was very drunk, shouted: "This is a checkpoint, ****** I have to put you down!" Allegedly, he then repeatedly slashed Sharif's face and neck with a Leatherman pocket knife while the Bangladeshi father of four begged for his life.

Sharif has speculated that he might have been attacked because of the mosque controversy, saying : "I know many people are upset. I didn’t support the mosque at Ground Zero, either."

Other recent incidents include anti-Islamic signs left at a mosque in Fresno, California. A brick was also thrown at a window.

In Florida, meanwhile, a non-denominational pastor, Terry Jones, is organising a 'Koran-burning day' on September 11. Author of a book titled Islam is of the Devil, Jones has garnered 1,600 supporters on his church's Facebook page. "I mean ask yourself, have you ever really seen a really happy Muslim?" he writes, bizarrely.

A recent poll by Time magazine revealed animosity towards Muslims across the US, with 28 per cent of respondents saying they don't think Muslims should be allowed to sit on the Supreme Court and almost a third saying no Muslim should be eligible to be president.

Thanks to the Colbert Report for the heads-up on this one.

 

[MobBoss]

Strawman much? I've never claimed anything regarding Ward Churchill or his views.

My god...it wasnt a strawman, it was a QUESTION. I didnt say you did CLAIM anything about him...I asked you your opinion about his COMMENT.

Can you at least once answer a flipping question without claiming (incorrectly) its a strawman?

 

[El_Machinae]

How about a statue inside to Ward Churchill as well? Fitting?

How could a statute of Ward Churchill be fitting?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Can you at least once answer a flipping question without claiming (incorrectly) its a strawman?

How about asking a "question" about a topic that is actually relevant to this thread regarding anything I have ever posted here?

And yes, I think you are insinuating that I am somehow like this person or have the same views by even asking me about it. It sounds like yet another attempt to attack my credibility instead of actually addressing the issues.

 

[El_Machinae]

In Mobboss's defense (before your edit), it's really hard to figure out how that question could possibly be a strawman. The red herring is more obvious of an interpretation (in that one can see how it could be a red herring, even if one did not think it was).

 

[Formaldehyde]

He was already told by two people that it wasn't relevant to this thread, yet he persisted in asking me about it. So yes, I do think he was insinuating that I remind him of this person who is "vile" in his "opinion" by even suggesting that a mosque be build on "Ground Zero". I really don't see any other reason why he could have possibly mentioned it in this context.

And this isn't the first time he has done so either. He mentioned Ward Churchill before after I simply pointed out that US foreign policy causes terrorism.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

It is difficult to spot red herrings hidden in a mountain of straw men - Confucius.

 

[dannyshenanigan]

A drunk did a Lebowski to prayer rungs in a Queens mosque:

I think we should judge all opponents of the mosque based on the actions of this individual as well as the guy that attacked the cab driver.
It only makes sense that we should make blanket judgements on entire groups based on the actions of a small minority.

Therefore because

Mosque builders= terrorists

then

Mosque opponents= criminals

It's only fair.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I think we should try to excuse all the irrational acts being committed by Islamophobes because they aren't being done by all Islamophobes by making absurd generalizations after merely posting a relevant article.

It's only fair.

 

[dannyshenanigan]

I think we should try to excuse all the irrational acts being committed by Islamophobes because they aren't being done by all Islamophobes by making absurd generalizations after merely posting a relevant article.

It's only fair.

Just to be clear my comment was sarcastic. I think you misconstrued it. I wasn't attacking you or certainly excusing these idiots. I was just trying to point out the hypocrisy and the double standards of people who oppose the Mosque. We're on the exact same side on this.

 

[Formaldehyde]

No, that wasn't clear at all to me. But now that you mention it, I can certainly interpret it that way after rereading it with that in mind.

Sarcasm tends to backfire a lot in this forum.