WTC Mosque Part Four!!!

[bernie14]

I don't think anyone would call a Middle Eastern terrorist organisation an "American social group".

u did not say "american, u said "marginilized", i dont pretend to be able to read everyone's mind like others here seem to do

Let's just say that I'm a little sick of the disrespect being consistently shown by the local Islamophobes. Regardless of your views on the mosque, accusing American Muslims of being complicit in the attacks is just disgusting..

i dont speak for islamophobes

It's fairly self-explanatory, but if you insist: the Western media has adopted a particular narrative in regards to the War on Terror, one which treats any and all Muslims with suspicion. As such, it is difficult for moderate Muslims to break through this uniformity and voice their opposition to terrorism- look at how frequently this Imam's vocal opposition to terror has been overlooked.

oh, u r limiting the discussion of "media" to "western" media (and to boot, the "one" that fits your vision and argument that "treats any and all Muslims with suspicion") , i had considered other alternatives, and i have seen many reports on both sides

 

[MobBoss]

I heard a rumor that some people are planning to slaughter a pig at the proposed site to prevent Muslims from building there. Any confirmation/source? Sorry, I'm not as much of a news/political junkie anymore.

Why would that prevent them from building there?

Also, I read in another story that the cordoba folks are 200k in debt to the state of NY for back taxes on the property. Anyone heard that one yet?

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Presumably, some Muslims wouldn't set foot on ground that had been stained with the blood of an unclean animal. I dunno, it sounds idiotic enough to have actually been some one's idea.

 

[MobBoss]

Typical Christian trying to downplay anti-abortion terrorism They just don't do enough to condemn it.

I cant help but notice that your reply is very much absent of any proof. Ah well, I guess you were unable to provide any links/proof to support your allegation.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

*Ahem* I will go on record and say that abortion terrorism is just as bad in principle. The entire point of protesting abortion is to save lives, not destroy them. If an abortion clinic is blown up, killing the mother and her unborn child, that defeats the whole purpose.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Pro-lifers murdering doctors... I see no inherent contradictions there (paraphrasing Bill Hicks).

 

[Tee Kay]

 

[Masada]

Presumably, some Muslims wouldn't set foot on ground that had been stained with the blood of an unclean animal. I dunno, it sounds idiotic enough to have actually been some one's idea.

Eh, it would take all of a blessing to sort the issue out.

 

[El_Machinae]

I cant help but notice that your reply is very much absent of any proof. Ah well, I guess you were unable to provide any links/proof to support your allegation.

Can you please name the psychological fallacy that I'm trying to point out?

On the one hand, we're counting the number of terrorist actions performed by Muslims. On the other, we're counting the number of anti-abortion terrorist activities. Many of the replies seem to have recognised this.

Instead of realising this, you tried to reframe the question to be more inclusive of Muslim terrorism against Americans and to downplay anti-abortion terrorism.

We're not comparing 'terrorism performed by pro-lifers to terrorism performed by Muslims' - though that could obviously be amusing, it's also nearly impossible. I was trying to compare islam-based terrorism in America to pro-life based terrorism in America. One is much more prevalent than the other: the difference between an attempted arson and a successful on is about 10 IQ points.

Your attempt to reframe with terrorism performed against foreign American targets continues this horrid idea that American Muslims carry responsibility for the actions of teenagers in impoverished, desperate, occupied lands. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous that you tried to do it, and it's ridiculous that you snipped the part of my post that helped point out the statistical fallacy.

Your position is inconsistent and it's wrong. I cannot provide 'proof' to someone who refuses to understand the question, it's a waste of time.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

So, did that hostage situation in Maryland yesterday qualify as terrorism?

Is anyone going to precisely define what they think terrorism is?

 

[Cutlass]

it has always been about sharia for me because of the imam

It's never about sharia in the United States. It cannot ever be. Read the Constitution!

 

[Masada]

Even giving credit to the notion that it might be on the cards is silly. So quite apart from the constitutional issues find me some sort of proof that Muslims on the whole want to bring Sharia into America.

 

[MobBoss]

Can you please name the psychological fallacy that I'm trying to point out?

Still no data to offer eh?

On the one hand, we're counting the number of terrorist actions performed by Muslims. On the other, we're counting the number of anti-abortion terrorist activities. Many of the replies seem to have recognised this.

Instead of realising this, you tried to reframe the question to be more inclusive of Muslim terrorism against Americans and to downplay anti-abortion terrorism.

Within the last 30 years and against americans wherever they are. Do you think anti-abortion activity 100 years ago relevant?

We're not comparing 'terrorism performed by pro-lifers to terrorism performed by Muslims' - though that could obviously be amusing, it's also nearly impossible. I was trying to compare islam-based terrorism in America to pro-life based terrorism in America. One is much more prevalent than the other: the difference between an attempted arson and a successful on is about 10 IQ points.

Then by all means provide your data to back up your claim.

Your attempt to reframe with terrorism performed against foreign American targets continues this horrid idea that American Muslims carry responsibility for the actions of teenagers in impoverished, desperate, occupied lands.

First of all, I never said that in the context you offer.

Secondly, american muslims have indeed attempted terrorist attacks in this country.

Third.....Teenagers? While terrorists can certainly be teenagers, certainly you dont think they are all are do you? That terrorism is just misplaced teen angst?

Your position is inconsistent and it's wrong. I cannot provide 'proof' to someone who refuses to understand the question, it's a waste of time.

So.....you make an allegation, blame me for asking for proof, and then say providing such proof is a waste of time.

Nice move!!

 

[Traitorfish]

u did not say "american, u said "marginilized", i dont pretend to be able to read everyone's mind like others here seem to do

The context pretty clearly established that we were talking about American Muslims.

i dont speak for islamophobes

You're one of many.

oh, u r limiting the discussion of "media" to "western" media (and to boot, the "one" that fits your vision and argument that "treats any and all Muslims with suspicion") , i had considered other alternatives, and i have seen many reports on both sides

Of course I am; if we're discussing mainstream Western media, then it's only natural that I discuss mainstream Western media. If we want to talk about independent Palestinian newspapers, then go nuts, but it won't tell you much about the Muslim-American experience.

Third.....Teenagers? While terrorists can certainly be teenagers, certainly you dont think they are all are do you? That terrorism is just misplaced teen angst?

That's actually a fairly accurate description of most "home grown" British Islamists- alienated young men who feel marginalised because of their religion and ethnicity, and so become deeply invested in a radical form of religious activism. Same thing that produced most of the IRA, give or take some religious fervour. This stuff isn't new.

 

[bernie14]

It's never about sharia in the United States. It cannot ever be. Read the Constitution!

i have...have u read imam's writings?, because he seems to disagree with us both....or r u just going to brush of his beliefs with some tangentail excuse?

 

[bernie14]

Even giving credit to the notion that it might be on the cards is silly. So quite apart from the constitutional issues find me some sort of proof that Muslims on the whole want to bring Sharia into America.

i did not say muslims...i said imam

 

[trader/warrior]

The craze about sharia law is all fearmongering and suppression of religious freedom anyway. Sharia law as implemented in most countries only applies to civil cases and disputes where both sides agree to use sharia so they can use muslim scholars for arbitration and conflict resolvement. The jews have a similar system and noone seems to think there is anything wrong with that.

 

[Leonel]

i have...have u read imam's writings?, because he seems to disagree with us both....or r u just going to brush of his beliefs with some tangentail excuse?

It's an article on how the Constitution can be an inspiration to Muslims countries to try and strike a better balance between their secular laws and the Quran. If anything, it seems very flattering to the Constitution.

Of course I might be dyslexic!

 

[Ajidica]

Leonel is right. It is no different from Christian advocate groups trying to get the SC to make the constitution 'more Christian'.
Basicaly he is saying that when conflict arises between civil and Sharia Law, it more often than not originates through the penal code which is not an integral part of the Sharia Law itself. Sharia Law has many different variants and interpretations

Where there is a conflict, it is not with Shariah law itself but more often with the way the penal code is sometimes applied. Some aspects of this penal code and its laws pertaining to women flow out of the cultural context. The religious imperative is about justice and fairness. If you strive for justice and fairness in the penal code, then you are in keeping with moral imperative of the Shariah.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Eh, it would take all of a blessing to sort the issue out.

I know, I'm just relaying the latest reactionary insanity coming my way. It's pretty clear that most of these people know next to nothing about Islam.