WTC Mosque Part Four!!!

[Eran of Arcadia]

"Just because you have a right do so something, doesn't mean that it is right to do it; this is insensitive and just divides people."

Why, oh why, oh why are people who claim not to be opposed to Islam, saying this over and over again about the Park51 builders, and not a single time about the anti-Muslim protesters who stand across the street with posters like "Islam is of the Devil" or "SHARIA!" and the like?

Does that seem right to anyone?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Clearly, their claims to not be opposed to Islam have little or no merit. If they didn't feel that way, they would be thinking about the "feelings" of far more Muslims than the handful of people who lost "loved ones" on 9/11 and are actually publicly whining about this. Instead, they offer vague excuses why they are actually opposed to it while actually encouraging even more terrorist acts from the blowback generated by their rhetoric. By not condemning the continual attacks against Islam, they are condoning and even encouraging them.

This mosque has been there for a year now and nothing was said. The expansion was approved by the city of NY and virtually nothing was said against it. Even Fox News supported it back in December when they carried the story about the expansion.

Suddenly, it has become another birther / tea partyer "cause". People opposed to it get their talking points from sources like www.Jihadwatch.com. Today's headline on that site:

Hamas-linked ISNA holding meeting today to complain of "intolerance" over Islamic supremacist Ground Zero mega-mosque.

Not even Fox News is stooping low enough to even insinuate much of this nonsense. Bloomberg is right. This is nothing but base partisan politics at its ugliest, which is being fueled by massive bigotry against the second largest religion in the world today.

 

[MobBoss]

Ever heard of being diplomatic?

Yeah. But I dont want to be 'diplomatic' with terrorists.

The progress made in Northern Ireland is a good example of that.

Not every situation is the same. The IRA is hardly the same kind of entity as radical Islam.

Suddenly, it has become another birther / tea partyer "cause". Bloomberg is right. This is nothing but base partisan politics at its ugliest, which is being fueled by massive bigotry against the second largest religion in the world today.

Again, polls show that a vast majority of democrats/independents/republicans are opposed to this mosque nationwide.

It is hardly just another 'birther/tea party' cause.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Meanwhile, the effigy of the Christian pastor who wants to burn Korans burned itself in Afghanistan while some in the crowd shouted "death to Obama":

Islam is of the devil:


Link to video.

Why won't the conservatives condemn this obvious far-right fanatical bigotry which is the root of their movement against the "victory mosque"?

 

[bernie14]

..... By not condemning the continual attacks against Islam, they are condoning and even encouraging them.

would u say the same if u put a "non" in front of islam?....the protesters would probably not even be there if that was the case

 

[MobBoss]

Meanwhile, the effigy of the Christian pastor who wants to burn Korans burned itself in Afghanistan while the crowd shouted "death to Obama":

If they are shouting 'death to Obama' then woudlnt it be Obama being burned in effigy?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Why won't the conservatives condemn this obvious far-right fanatical bigotry which is the root of their movement against the "victory mosque"?

It probably doesn't count for the purposes of this thread or anywhere else, but I am a conservative, and it needs to be said that what this pastor is doing is hateful and bigoted, and goes against everything this nation, and the religion he claims to represent, stands for.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I'm sure you aren't the only conservative who feels that way. VRCWAGent is yet another. I originally selected the word "reactionary" instead, but I think this absurdity has wider appeal than that. After all, 75% of the Republicans think this "victory mosque" shouldn't be built, as well as half the Democrats. And hardly any of them are condeming these ridiculous attacks on Islam which are really inspiring it.

 

[MobBoss]

It probably doesn't count for the purposes of this thread or anywhere else, but I am a conservative, and it needs to be said that what this pastor is doing is hateful and bigoted, and goes against everything this nation, and the religion he claims to represent, stands for.

I concur.

I dont think its right either. There are legitimate ways to object to something....this isnt one of them.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Common arguments against Park51, broken down by type . . .

 

[warpus]

Again, polls show that a vast majority of democrats/independents/republicans are opposed to this mosque nationwide.

It is hardly just another 'birther/tea party' cause.

Explain to me why this was never an issue when the plans were first announced - and why community leaders from the area supported the community centre and the mosque within...

and why this only became an "issue" much later, when certain people started shouting: "OMG GROUND ZERO MOSQUE"

 

[Formaldehyde]

If they are shouting 'death to Obama' then woudlnt it be Obama being burned in effigy?

Perhaps you should check your sources before engaging in speculation.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/as...7/afghans_protest_churchs_plan_to_burn_koran/

Common arguments against Park51, broken down by type . . .

Brilliant!

 

[MobBoss]

Perhaps you should check your sources before engaging in speculation.

Uhm. I asked a question, I didnt offer a point of fact. Historically, when they are burning someone in effigy, the person being 'burned' is the name they are chanting. At least thats how its worked since Reagan. Maybe these guys are just doing it wrong.

 

[Formaldehyde]

So which logical fallacy would that be? Appeal to tradition? Sweeping generalization? Hasty generalization?

Care to comment on the logical fallacies pointed out in Eran's article?

 

[MobBoss]

So which logical fallacy would that be? Appeal to tradition? Sweeping generalization? Hasty generalization?

Uhm. None of the above, since I wasnt making a statement of fact, but simply a rhetorical question.

Dang, Form, I didnt realize that asking if a crowd chanting 'death to Obama' might consider the cardboard man they are burning to be him so controversial for you.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Appeal to emotion? Strawman?

 

[holy king]

all this makes me want to open an air plane museum next to ground zero.

 

[Bill3000]

i see where we disagree.... u seem to be equating "unfavorable view" with "intolerance".... i dont think those r the same thing......

Well then we'll just take from the poll the 29% of Americans who believe that the Muslims don't have the right to build there. Assuming that all of them are against the mosque, that would mean 40% of those who are against the mosque.

Either way, it's not a trivial number.

 

[JollyRoger]

The IRA is hardly the same kind of entity as radical Islam.

Lack of sobriety cuts into efficiency.

 

[Glassfan]

People's opinions and principles often conflict - it's natural. I believe in freedom of speech - a bedrock principle, yet I don't have to like or agree with things people say. I would argue with them, while defending their right to speak out.

Similarly, we all seem to agree that the Muslims have a right to build at ground zero, but we don't have to like it.