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[WTP] Quick questions

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by Nightinggale, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Warlord Supporter

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    In the colopedia is an enty about "Historical Quotes" that contains all the quotes from the starting screen if you PC loads the game too fast too read them there.
     
  2. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    Not really. Imagine you are making a character in a game like the sims. You are given the choice of head, torso, legs and so on. You can pick anything, but only one of each category (no two headed people). What you see ingame is the combination you ended up with as a complete entity where each part you picked affects the game (in some cases only visual), but at the same time the character has become one game element you can't take apart anymore.
    The same is true for plots in the civ4 engine. They consist of terrain, plottype, route (road), feature(forest), improvement, bonus and so on. "none" is a setting in some cases, meaning there is 0 or 1 of each of those, but never more than 1.

    Some of them are easy to understand (like which level of road is on the plot) while some requires more insights in the code. Particularly plottype vs terrain requires insight in the code as well as some details I didn't even mention, like domain.
     
  3. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    DomainTypes are however applied to Units (not Terrains) to match them to PlotTypes.
    ("Water", "Impassable" and all the rest that can be considered "Land")

    But yes, that concept might at first also confuse new modders. :crazyeye:
    But I guess we are getting really deep into Civ4Col coding now - something like that might be suited in a "DLL Programmers" or "Civ4Col Modders" thread. :think:

    One day when we find time and motivation and also interested new Civ4Col modders
    we should really document our knowledge before it gets completely lost and the new modders need to figure it out all by themselves like we had to do it ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  4. Gnomercy

    Gnomercy Chieftain

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    I have what must be the easiest question ever.... Is there and install guide? I am not the most software literate person and when I DL from Github I am getting a .dll file rather than the folder I get with other modzs.

    Sorry to be a pain but can you direct me to an install guide or is it something simple?

    Once again, sorry to bother you all.
     
  5. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Hi Gnomercy,

    here is the link to the currently published beta (2.7.2 beta 1 - it still has a lot of text bugs.)
    After you unzipped the rar, please read the install instructions.txt and follow its instructions.
    However it does not contain all the fixes, improvements and additions we implemented in the last 2 months.

    If you look here (our release overview) you will see that we are currently preparing the new upcoming release (2.7.3)
    However we have discovered a small issue with our new special charcters (encoding) and want to fix that first.
    Thus currently community is not yet allowed to download it (because it is still a Draft).

    Summary:
    You can of course download and play the beta release 2.7.2 beta 1 now. Other than a few minor annoyances it is playable.
    But if you wait a few more days (maybe until the weekend) we might finally have published the full release 2.7.3.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
    Mr. ZorG likes this.
  6. Gnomercy

    Gnomercy Chieftain

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    Thank you for the quick response... I am clearly doing something wrong as when I unzip the RAR file I only see the DLL and no other file. I'll re-DL and give it another go.

    Again, thanks for the quick response and sorry for being a problem.
     
  7. Gnomercy

    Gnomercy Chieftain

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    I am now VERY sorry 100% a stupid mistake on my part... sorry =(

    Works fine!
     
    raystuttgart likes this.
  8. XSamatan

    XSamatan Chieftain

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    iEuropeVolumeAttrition

    If this value is >0, will the price in Europe increase over time even if the player does not buy/sell the specific yield in question?

    Regards
    XSamatan
     
  9. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    No, not really. :nope:
    The condition is inverted.

    It is basically a demand vs. supply rule.
    (It is a "hidden" price recovery mechanism.)

    If the value is >0, the prices will decrease again over time. (Because it will increase the amounts sold -> prices in Europe will decrease over time)
    If the value is <0, the prices will increase again over time. (Because it will decrease the amounts sold -> prices in Europe will increase over time)

    <0 : this is intended for goods that are (usually) sold a lot to balance them back to "original prices" if Player does not sell anymore.
    >0 : this is intended for goods that are (usually) bought a lot to balance them back to "original prices" if Player does not buy anymore.

    So depending on these 2 factors the setting should be made:
    (basically, how fast do you want to recover the prices and is it import or export case)
    • import or export
    • high value or low value
    For some "high value produced goods" the prices will recover faster if you do not sell anymore.
    For some "low value raw goods" the prices will recover slower if you do not sell anymore.

    There is usually no need to mess with such detailled settings, unless you feel that price recovery does not work correctly.
    (A lot of such settings were added in RaR by the way, but they are really meant for fine tuning details of balancing.)

    Remarks:

    The feature using it tries to simulate a realistic market behaviour with European demand/supply and Colonial demand/supply.
    (It tries to connect European Market with Colonial market to a "global market".)

    There are other settings involved in this general concept of a "global market" as well.
    e.g. <iPriceCorrectionPercent> that connects all European Markets (England, France, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, ...)

    Edit:

    I just discovered that considering actual gameplay some settings needed to be changed (e.g. Barley which you will most likely never import from Europe).

    @XSamatan
    Thanks for your post. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  10. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Warlord Supporter

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    In my current game with the beta version I sent a ship to a village to trade. I bought the entire stock of goods the natives were offering (e.g. 300 food etc.) but after that the Natives do still have 12 food left, which are not red (untradeable) but open for trade.

    So - why did they only offer 300 food in the first tradescreen and not 312? The ship with 5 cargo slots would have had the space to take the entire available goods.

    Colonization312food.jpg
     
  11. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    That is vanilla behaviour of Trade Screen.

    If there are packages of 100s it wil first only offer those.
    Once alll of these packages of 100s are used up, it will then offer the smaller amount (in your example "12").

    I suspect that this was done purposely to:
    A) prevent accidently buying over the storage capacity of the Wagon Train
    B) to avoid complaits of users that do not like to accidently have used up a storage slot for e.g. 12 units

    And before you ask:
    We can not change it, because the "Trade Screen" is mostly inside of the exe.

    Summary:

    This was not implemented in WTP (or RaR or TAC).
    And WTP can also not change it.

    I suspect (but do not know) that it was done purposely for User Experience.
    (Preventing complaints of users considering storage slots of Transport Units.)
     
  12. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I still want to write a brand new "Trade Screen" (actually the entire diplomacy screen) because the one provided in the exe has so many limitations and it even has bugs. However writing a new one means everything related to the screen has to be rewritten from scratch, including the network code. It's a major task and I'm not sure if I will ever actually do it. At the same time I will not completely rule it out because I haven't found anything yet, which would make it completely impossible.
     
  13. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Sounds like investing lots of effort to replace working things we have. :sad:

    Yes, Trade and Diplomacy Screen have lots of limitations - but currently they mostly work as they should and look quite pretty.
    Completely rewriting Trade and Diplomacy Screen will bind lots of our capacity because we will definitely need to fix bugs (in first versions) and do lot of improvements until it is again "as good as what we already had".

    Our capacity is really limitted currently and thus we should consider wisely how we use it.
    I would really prefer WTP to implement new features and focus on important improvements and fixes and on other small "low hanging fruits".
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
  14. XSamatan

    XSamatan Chieftain

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    I stumbled upon this feature after the yield "Trade Good" kept on increasing in Europe.

    Usually I try to sell every village near my starting position one batch of "Trade Goods", yet the price increases to fast to it being profitable enough. I'm usually playing on epic speed, is this function (the decrease) adjusted to longer game speeds?

    Thank you ray for the detailed answer and your ongoing commitment to improving Civ4Col!

    Beste Grüße
    XSamatan
     
  15. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Warlord Supporter

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    Perhaps stupid questions but does the european demand value take into account that the population in Europe rises over the decades and so prices should not simply ping-pong up and down, according to deliveries to Europe, between two fixed values but the values rise, too?

    And at the start of the game, when player and AI have not yet delivered anything to Europe - how can prices sink in that time when there is only demand but no american supply?

    Is this weekend still the planned releasedate for 2.7.3? Because I’m itching to try a new game with all those issues gone that were fixed and could be patient for a few more days. If it’s much longer I’d rather start a new game right now :smoke:
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  16. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    To be honest, I personally do not know. :dunno:

    We still have a bug in our new Text and Translation System.
    (It seems to depend on the install directory because not all of us can reproduce the bug.)

    Nightinggale is working on it but I currently do not know the status. :sad:
    Since he coded the system he is also the only one who really understands it and can thus fix it.
    He also was sick last weekend and could thus not work much on it. And when we retested we found the current bug ...

    He more or less recoded the Text System so support modern UTF8 character sets. :thumbsup:
    (It was a lot of effort and caused a lot of issues we found by testing and Nightingale had to fix.)

    Basically it is supposed to get rid of the need to encode special characters for us modders.
    Another positive aspect is, that it is compatible with an GUI-XML-Editor Nightinggale created for us modders.
    Also it is supposed to make it easier for us in the future to support e.g. Russian.

    It is a cool thing for us modders but players usually would not notice that it exists - when it is working correctly again.
    When it is broken though - like it is currently - player will notice because texts will be messed up.

    Nightinggale is also the only one who can draft and publish our releases in GitHub.
    (He is the Admin of our GitHub space.)

    Summary:
    Nightinggale will most likely answer those questions, when he is online again. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  17. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    The price system also has some random factors.
    (It is not totally static.)
     
  18. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Chieftain

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    We have already spoken with Nigtinggale on the encoding problem. I can do the translation in the xls-file, and after solving this problem, transfer the already translated text to the game.
    In my opinion, you should not postpone the release because of this. although, of course, it's up to you, the team.
     
  19. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    I did not see any further discussion in one of our team chats. :confused:
    I personally last discussed the issue briefly with Nightinggale on Tuesday in a direct chat.

    The current bug is not directly about the Russian translations (and Gamefont) support to my knowledge.
    It is about City Names, Ship Names and General Names with special characters (e.g. of French Colonies or Spanish Colonies).
    (Those entries are not in an XML for texts, they are in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml.)

    It seems to be related to folders that the new Text and Translation System checks and thus indirectly also to installation directories of the mod.
    In my installation it now works, but in the installation of Nightinggale he reported to have this issue. :dunno:
    (Most likely simply because we use different ways for placing the mod folder.)

    If there really is a 50:50 chance that special characters of City Names, Ship Names and General Names are broken, we should not release before it is fixed.
    And if it takes a couple of more weeks, then it takes some more weeks. It is still better than getting bug reports about broken texts all the time. :dunno:

    Once the bug is fixed, we can of course release. :)
    But hurrying a release, that we know has such a bug, will not really help us.
    (From the past I e.g. know that non-encoded special characters in City Names can break Map Saves.)

    The only one who really knows the current status is Nightinggale. :thumbsup:
    He is the only one who can give a competent answer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  20. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Chieftain

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    we talked on Wednesday)
    I didn’t know that :dunno: if so, then of course you should not rush.
     

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