Zoos and Aquariums

[hobbsyoyo]

Do they have a useful purpose in society? Do their methods cause more damage than the good they serve? Is it moral to lock up animals in cages for their entire lives inside artificial environments? Where do we draw the line between animal cruelty and acceptable behavior?

I think they should all be phased out with their research and convervation functions shifted to governments and NGOs to work on securing wildlife areas and funding in situ research.

I find it especially cruel for large and/or intelligent animals to be locked up. The amount of stress it causes these animals is unacceptable. I also find that a lot of the alleged conservation and research work done by zoos and aquariums to be merely bottom-barrel efforts meant to cover their own ass:

See? We did a ton of research into how much stress orcas are under when they're in giant tanks. Therefore we should keep them in giant tanks to continue studying them.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Well, at least we aren't eating the ones at the zoo.

Ostrich burgers mmm.

I'd be up for freeing the smarter ones like apes, dolphins, and Willy the Orca.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

What about relatively dumb animals that are large? Komodo drangons and moose meet this criteria. The larger the animal is, the harder it is to replicate the natural environment for them in a way that is conducive to also being in a Zoo. It doesn't make it any less cruel just because they aren't smart.

 

[Zkribbler]

If I were a fish, I would love to be in an aquarium. I'd get fed everyday, and there'd be little chance of being eaten. But if were a dolphin, I'd want to be in the open sea. Concrete walls mess up my sonar location.

Zoos I think are educational and breed empathy. Some species exist only in zoos. Outside, poachers slaughter them.

I'd rather be in a zoo than in the food chain.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Well, is keeping a pet cruel?

Some cats stay inside an apartment their whole lives.

Many zoo animals get more space than the house cat.

 

[El_Machinae]

I have a hard time justifying saltwater aquariums. I guess people are paying their own money for them, and everyone has hobbies, but still. Not for me.

It's frustrating that coral reefs will not be as beautiful as they were by the time I can afford to see one.

 

[Birdjaguar]

While not the best environment for most critters, the do provide a place for people to see them outside of books and videos and zoos will be/are the only place to see some of them. Would you want to meet an 12' cobra in the wild? They are an imperfect solution.

 

[Hrothbern]

Animals in a zoo are mostly better off than livestock while being raised to grow.
The biology faculties of universities linked connected with them having a good source for learning. Whereby noted, that just as when you have a hobby aquarium at home, getting their mini habitat so good that animals start breeding is a criterium that you adapted that mini habitat well enough.
When I was a little kid there were no nice documentaries, and not at all documentaries with cams mounted on animals like birds.
For me, as a kid, going to Artis (Amsterdam) was every time a wonderful experience. My oldest daughter enjoyed the drawing and sculpture (clay) lessons every Saturday morning very much ( from 4 years to 8 years old or so).
Families living nearby Artis, often use Artis, with a year subscription of 80 Euro, as parc for their toddlers. Artis is a nice parc in the middle of an ocean of 19th-early 20th century housing.

That all does not take away that since a zoo was more a prestige object of cities long time ago, we meanwhile know that collecting all kinds of animals like post stamps in too small cages is bad for the happiness of most animals and leads to unnatural behaviour.
Artis changed a lot over the almost two centuries it is there. Less kinds of species, bigger and more natural settings. But it is still a balance between the public demands for "big" icon like animals and the happiness of animals.
The butterfly garden in Artis is soooo beautiful to be in, and imo no issue at all for the butterflies.
And even when a local "big icon" animal, like an elephant, in an always too small mini habitat, has a baby, and it is on the news, with more attention on the childrens news, children asking their parents to go to Artis to see the baby..... the nurturing of empathy for nature and natural is I think still of higher value.

All in all I think that a zoo, when handled well, the empathy, is a good thing.

 

[Perfection]

When the robots take over all the humans will be locked in tiny cages while the animals run free

 

[Zkribbler]

Seinfeld already thought of this.

 

[Hygro]

Do they have a useful purpose in society?

Yes

Do their methods cause more damage than the good they serve?

Some.

Is it moral to lock up animals in cages for their entire lives inside artificial environments?

No.

Where do we draw the line between animal cruelty and acceptable behavior?

Good luck. We try.

 

[Yeekim]

Do they have a useful purpose in society? Do their methods cause more damage than the good they serve? Is it moral to lock up animals in cages for their entire lives inside artificial environments? Where do we draw the line between animal cruelty and acceptable behavior?.

1) Yes.
2-4) It depends.

 

[Lexicus]

 

[El_Machinae]

Normally I don't like whataboutism. In this case, it strikes me that as long as I eat pork and beef, I can't really say anything about zoos or aquariums.

Along any Dimension I can criticize, it strikes me that my meat eating is objectively worse.

 

[Yeekim]

One of my favorite authors growing up was Gerald Durrell.

In one of his books (Drunken Forest, I think), he describes having to release the collection of animals he acquired in Paraguay, due to a coup.
With the exception of snakes, who gratefully slithered away without further ado, rest of his menagerie allegedly proved quite reluctant to leave the base camp, where they had grown accustomed to being fed.

 

[warpus]

I hate visiting zoos because there's sooooo much walking from enclosure to enclosure just to see a depressed locked up animal. I feel bad for them, why would I go out of my way to pay to see them like this?

A bird sanctuary I visited in New Zealand was much more interesting. It was free and the birds were there because they wouldn't survive outside. I can support that 18258215 more than a zoo.

Aquariums with giant tanks full of smaller fish seem okay to me maybe? I have no idea how the fish feel I guess, but at the aquarium in Toronto at least, which seems world class, a lot of the animals are in giant tanks. Not sure how I feel about the ones in the smaller tanks. I went once because I had time to kill and I'm interested in sea life, and a lot of the species are things you'd usually not see or even expect to see. I'm never going back, seen it once, why go again? Mind you I've also visited the aquarium in Monterrey in California, a friend recommended it and took me. The penguins were cool, but they'd probably be happier out in the wild.

 

[Broken_Erika]

It's tiny. Stupid Wikipedia....
use this one
https://i.redd.it/1aez1sik6hmz.png

 

[Lexicus]

It's tiny. Stupid Wikipedia....
use this one
https://i.redd.it/1aez1sik6hmz.png

 

[HoloDoc]

One of my favorite authors growing up was Gerald Durrell.

In one of his books (Drunken Forest, I think), he describes having to release the collection of animals he acquired in Paraguay, due to a coup.
With the exception of snakes, who gratefully slithered away without further ado, rest of his menagerie allegedly proved quite reluctant to leave the base camp, where they had grown accustomed to being fed.

Reminds me of Pablo Escobar's collection of hippos. When he died, they bred like crazy, and there are now hundreds of them n Colombia, causing problems because the environment is perfect for them.

They serve an important function. Until we eliminate poaching and find a way to make pandas actually have sex with each other, we need them. In Australia we occasionally take a dangerous croc from the wild and stick it in a zoo or reptile park rather than killing it. We also take animals that would die in the wild, such as a sick turtle that showed up in Sydney Harbour years back, and stick them in the aquarium rather than letting them suffer and die in the wild. Seems good to me.

 

[tetley]

Do they have a useful purpose in society?

+2 Global happiness?