ZPNESVI Discussion Thread (Nesse)

[orangelex44]

We also, like the Ninctius Clan, believe in absolute non-tolerence attitude to smuggling. All unauthorized Exiled Vessel in the coast shall be seized and boarded immediately.

Meanwhile, we may post a reward for the capture of a smuggler, so that we may learn more about how they operate.

This, too, seems like a terrible exercise in stupidity. First of all, your City is once again reaching further than its grasp, as you have no navy, and no means for one. Besides, any attempt to create one will simply create another enemy, as the Sea Kingdom will brook no challenge to its supremacy. We still bear some love for our lost City - more loss to us, it seems - and we would not want it embroiled in yet another war when enemies lie all around.

Furthermore, as we have already stated, you have no jurisdiction over us Exiled. You forfeit that right when you tossed us upon our Island. Any attempt you make to control us should not come from the stick, but the carrot, for I guarantee you that not all of us are willing to comply with your unreasonableness, and while the Orange are willing to negotiate others are not so honorable. We, at least, shall wait until actually forced to defend ourselves; some of the dogs forced upon us will attack at even the shadow of a threat. Remember, some day you may need us...

Furthermore, your claim to only target Exiled vessels is yet again foolish, and worse it is impossible to carry out. Those you claim are "smugglers" - and again, we make the declaration that this is a wrongful label - are not Exiles at all. Most are Nessers and Outlanders; others are from the Sea Kingdom. How are we supposed to create ships? None here have the skill or the means for such action. None but a magician claims to make a ship without the tools, the skills, and the materials.

Take your self-rightous and foolish Elite actions elsewhere. Go kick some small animal, or slaughter some hapless Barbs. Or, for a change, you could do something worthwhile, or kill those that truly deserve killing; it makes no difference to us any longer.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Listen idiotic Exiles, we never said we were going to actively search the waters around Nesse for smugglers. However, if we find a ship with smuggled goods on it docked in our ports, it will be seized, its smuggling crew executed or imprisoned, and its good destroyed. Perhaps you should start looking at what we actually say, instead of listening to the ranting of the Moon Shadow Clan.

1) YOU ARE KILLING PEOPLE WITHOUT EVIDENCE AGAINST THEM.

First of all, good job coming across in a civilized tone. Second, who said we won't have evidence. If we find smuggled goods aboard their ship, then obviously we have evidence that they are smugglers. And smugglers deserve death.

2) YOU ARE THROWING AWAY VALUABLE THINGS.

Smuggled goods are worthless and tainted. Sinking them will keep them from re-surfacing and becoming a problem again.

3) You are hurting Simple merchants of Nesse city with simply sinking goods and what if those "Smuggled goods" are actually brought in legally and you have already killed "smugglers".

And what if your aunt had balls?

(She'd be your uncle)

4) You are not obeying ancient laws of Nesse - Those who commit sins (or just get into your way, like we have) are to be EXILED They are not supposed to be Killed - as important evidence can always clear ones name - but only living person name can be cleared.

The smugglers are Exiles. If we spot any Exiles in Nesse, we are completely within our right to execute them on sight.

 

[erez87]

Listen idiotic Exiles, we never said we were going to actively search the waters around Nesse for smugglers. However, if we find a ship with smuggled goods on it docked in our ports, it will be seized, its smuggling crew executed or imprisoned, and its good destroyed. Perhaps you should start looking at what we actually say, instead of listening to the ranting of the Moon Shadow Clan.


First of all, good job coming across in a civilized tone. Second, who said we won't have evidence. If we find smuggled goods aboard their ship, then obviously we have evidence that they are smugglers. And smugglers deserve death.


Smuggled goods are worthless and tainted. Sinking them will keep them from re-surfacing and becoming a problem again.



And what if your aunt had balls?

(She'd be your uncle)



The smugglers are Exiles. If we spot any Exiles in Nesse, we are completely within our right to execute them on sight.

Now that we see your rules more brightly. we agree with them and hope no wrong will come to Nesse. Good luck killing exiles.

 

[orangelex44]

"Idiotic" Exiles? At least we don't start our communiques with blantantly untrue statements.

...we never said we were going to actively search the waters around Nesse for smugglers.

Meanwhile, we may post a reward for the capture of a smuggler, so that we may learn more about how they operate.

...that sounds an awful lot likt "actively searching" if you're going to institute a bounty/reward.

 

[Northen Wolf]

Listen idiotic Exiles, we never said we were going to actively search the waters around Nesse for smugglers. However, if we find a ship with smuggled goods on it docked in our ports, it will be seized, its smuggling crew executed or imprisoned, and its good destroyed. Perhaps you should start looking at what we actually say, instead of listening to the ranting of the Moon Shadow Clan.

Yes, We should Listen to Elites who want to shun away all their honor and kill anyone who gets in their way. They will use any excuse ("smugglers") to increase their influence and wealth, while brutally destroying any opposition (in the name of "killing evil smugglers"). They compare merchants and citizens of Nesse with Exiles. They disobey ancient laws of exiling those who go against laws. We should, Listen to them ?

First of all, good job coming across in a civilized tone. Second, who said we won't have evidence. If we find smuggled goods aboard their ship, then obviously we have evidence that they are smugglers.

Civilized tone? We are angry, How could we not be -

1) You are trying to kill anyone who gets in your way and frame honest merchants - You cannot proof, that your proposed system guarantees, that innocent will not get hurt. Your system wants to kill anyone who "is suspected of smuggling goods" and "sinking" ... or should I say - destroying ... evidence after that.

You are trying to sunk (and probably re-fish for extra gold) valuable goods that would boost Nesses (already low) economic.

Why this "system" is bad:

So, if some family loads other family ship with stolen goods, ship crew and any passenger will be killed without proper trial. That SURE IS JUSTICE! Are you going to reawake the dead when it comes out that they were framed and were actually innocent ?

If merchant refuses to pay shipping fees (that are abnormally high) they will be killed !!!

And smugglers deserve death.

WHO ARE YOU TO DISOBEY LAWS OF NESSE. Those who go against laws of Nesse are to be exiled. YOU ARE NOT THE ONE WHO DECIDES THAT SOMEONE SHOULD BE KILLED! And smuggler deserves more death than murderer or a thief or a Family who proposes this, unfair, system.

Example: Anyone can dump a load of stolen/illegal goods on ship when crew is err... "resting" in the local taverns.
Example2: You load ship with stolen goods, then say it's smugglers ship and kill everyone. No one can disagree or argue with you - there is no evidence.

Smuggled goods are worthless and tainted. Sinking them will keep them from re-surfacing and becoming a problem again.

Say, someone smuggles thousands of kgs valuables or rare crystals - because of high taxes merchant decides not to report his cargo - You guys are then going to kill him and sink the cargo.
- You'll later fish for the cargo and become rich thanks to stolen goods.
- You have gotten rid of merchant who brought some hard earned valuables to Nesse Market.
- You have hurt opposing families by killing their shipcrew, merchant and everything else.
- There is no one left to prove that these goods were legal - they're all dead.

And what if your aunt had balls?

(She'd be your uncle)

What if my cat would be dog? "She" would then be a "He" ? Just with more hair and less fur balls on the floor. We fail to see how this, insanity, goes with the topic.

The smugglers are Exiles.

LIES, ASSUMPTIONS AND RUMORS !!! Exiles do not posses enough tools to build ships - all we have is small fishing boats - barely enough to carry us over to Nesse and fish around Exiled isle. Most of those "Exiled smugglers" are actually Citizens of Nesse or Merchants of Nesse who have no connection with Exiled isle.

Where, in your (humble) opinion, would Exiles get ships, manpower, contacts AND GOODS to actually do some smuggling?

If we spot any Exiles in Nesse, we are completely within our right to execute them on sight.

At least your entire story had ONE fact that is correct. We are exiled for what we did (political or criminal reasons) and we know our place. We also Love Nesse and Unlike certain families we follow laws and will not try to recreate new ones that would "fit" us.

Now that we see your rules more brightly. we agree with them and hope no wrong will come to Nesse. Good luck killing exiles.

We understand that many of your political enemies are here with us, still, killing the ones who are innocent and shunned for political reasons?

Have your family heads lost themselves to insanity?


WE PROPOSE:
Lower shipping fees and tolls to attract more merchants and "bankrupt the smugglers".

This proposal will:
Attract more merchants to Nesse
Cut smugglers amount to minimum
Give many people jobs (carriers)
Will not require money (on patrols)
Will increase the revenue of all Families - more trade (that is Taxed) will happen as more merchants are here.

Lower shipping fees will attract larger amounts of goods - larger amount of goods are traded for more money - this generates revenue for merchants, citizens(carriers) and families (taxes, profits etc.)


Besides this, Wastes on patrolling are much larger compared to simply cutting taxes and making Nesse more attractive port.

We, the Moon Shadow Clan did not oppose searching possible smugglers - if there are enough bystanders who can confirm that "search" was not faked and used for an excuse to assasinate opposing family members for political or whatever other reasons. We did not oppose posting a Reward for catching smugglers. We are on the same side - but we follow laws (both moral and written ones).


Moon Shadow Clan

 

[erez87]

uh?

We understand that many of your political enemies are here with us, still, killing the ones who are innocent and shunned for political reasons?

Have your family heads lost themselves to insanity?

We have yet to exile anyone a part for the crazy Thongs (that we agreed to exile after all other elites wanted, we actually preferred to keep them around). So we have no idea what you are talking about?

Exiles have been exiled for a reason. They are criminals.

 

[Seon]

To: Moon Shadow clan

You are Exiled, and thus, your voices will not be heeded. The Watchmen's first objective is to serve the interest of the city. This includes the Nessers and the Elites, but not the Exiled. As long as no member of the city complains, we will not yield.

 

[Northen Wolf]

uh?



We have yet to exile anyone a part for the crazy Thongs (that we agreed to exile after all other elites wanted, we actually preferred to keep them around). So we have no idea what you are talking about?

Exiles have been exiled for a reason. They are criminals.

OOC: NPC individuals: Thieves, pickpockets, political opposition, Rich merchants who made a mistake etc. Thong was a clan, consisting of many NPC individuals.

 

[erez87]

OOC: NPC individuals: Thieves, pickpockets, political opposition, Rich merchants who made a mistake etc. Thong was a clan, consisting of many NPC individuals.

Thong were officially a bunch of street criminals. And as said - we did not want to exile them at start. But the most said their words, and those criminals were exiled.

We will always opposite exiling others from personal reasons.


As an added bonus - we will consider putting forward a law as soon as the senate starts that being exiled does not go on with birth. An exiled man can give birth to non-exiled children that will be welcomed at the city (if they swear allegiance to it and do other stuff to prove loyalty).
Alya wish for Nesse to grow not shrink.

 

[Ninja Dude]

"Idiotic" Exiles? At least we don't start our communiques with blantantly untrue statements.





...that sounds an awful lot likt "actively searching" if you're going to institute a bounty/reward.

First of all, the Ninticus Clan never said that. The Banner of the Eagle did. They aren't even elites, and they want to rid Nesse of the smuggler problem.

Also, good job paying attention to the second part of our sentence. We aren't going to be actively looking for them in our waters. Even a child would know that someone with no ships can't patrol the waters around Nesse. Therefor, we plan on catching the smugglers on land, or better yet, make it impossible to dock near Nesse.

Yes, We should Listen to Elites who want to shun away all their honor and kill anyone who gets in their way. They will use any excuse ("smugglers") to increase their influence and wealth, while brutally destroying any opposition (in the name of "killing evil smugglers"). They compare merchants and citizens of Nesse with Exiles. They disobey ancient laws of exiling those who go against laws. We should, Listen to them ?

Yep, obviously we are all wrong and these smugglers are "just poor merchants and citizens" that we are persecuting unjustly. Stow it. Your feeble lies aren't fooling anyone. You're just trying to lessen the opposition towards the smugglers and their illegal activites.

You are trying to kill anyone who gets in your way and frame honest merchants - You cannot proof, that your proposed system guarantees, that innocent will not get hurt. Your system wants to kill anyone who "is suspected of smuggling goods" and "sinking" ... or should I say - destroying ... evidence after that.

Frame honest merchants? That is the dumbest thing we've heard! Your wild accusations and claims are supported by nothing! We simply wish to search ships for smuggled goods and smugglers. If the smugglers are Exiles, they will be killed on the spot. If the smuggler are in fact less then honorable citizens of Nesse, then they will be Exiled. We will not kill or exile without evidence as you have so rudely said.

You are trying to sunk (and probably re-fish for extra gold) valuable goods that would boost Nesses (already low) economic.

Your belief that we will try to re-fish the goods is almost mind-numbingly offending. Also, you seem to be forgetting that smuggling is illegal. If someone wants to help our economy, they better do it legally.

Say, someone smuggles thousands of kgs valuables or rare crystals - because of high taxes merchant decides not to report his cargo - You guys are then going to kill him and sink the cargo.
- You'll later fish for the cargo and become rich thanks to stolen goods.
- You have gotten rid of merchant who brought some hard earned valuables to Nesse Market.
- You have hurt opposing families by killing their shipcrew, merchant and everything else.
- There is no one left to prove that these goods were legal - they're all dead.

We don't care if what someone smuggled was a pair of worn out sandles, or the key to immorality itself, we will sink it and leave the sea to take care of it. And if any of the families of Nesse are actually involved in the illegal smuggling buissness, they are in deep....trouble.

Why this "system" is bad:

So, if some family loads other family ship with stolen goods, ship crew and any passenger will be killed without proper trial. That SURE IS JUSTICE! Are you going to reawake the dead when it comes out that they were framed and were actually innocent ?

What if what if what if. That's all the Moon Shadow Clan says. Their imagined scenarios are utterly rediculous. Like we said, we will search and question those caught with smuggled goods. We will probably be able to tell if someone intentionally had stonlen goods on their ship or not.

And honestly, why would a smuggler even put their goods on someone else's ship? If they wanted to keep themselves from being arrested for possesion, they would have either left the goods at home or simploy chucked the goods in the sea. Because really, no one is just going to let some smugglers come aboard their boat and take back some goods they hid on it. That is, unless they were their assistants, in which case they could be considered smugglers.

See, even in your foolish, made up scenarios, our logic continues to trump your foolsih ramblings.

If merchant refuses to pay shipping fees (that are abnormally high) they will be killed !!!

The fees are being lowered. Where have you been?

WHO ARE YOU TO DISOBEY LAWS OF NESSE. Those who go against laws of Nesse are to be exiled. YOU ARE NOT THE ONE WHO DECIDES THAT SOMEONE SHOULD BE KILLED! And smuggler deserves more death than murderer or a thief or a Family who proposes this, unfair, system.

Nice how you left out the other part of that paragraph where we accuse the smugglers of being Exiles. From your highly defensive nature and outright rage towards our zero-tolerance policies, it is safe to say that at least some of the smuggling can be traced to the Exiles. If the smugglers aren't Exiles, they will be exiled right away. If they are Exiles, they'll be killed on the spot. Un-der-stand?

Example: Anyone can dump a load of stolen/illegal goods on ship when crew is err... "resting" in the local taverns.
Example2: You load ship with stolen goods, then say it's smugglers ship and kill everyone. No one can disagree or argue with you - there is no evidence.

What if what if what if...... We aren't going to be loading any ships with stolen goods, because quite frankly we aren't a trading family. We regulate trade and ensure that it goes smoothly, but we don't actually engage in trading itself. Thus your little scenario doesn't work.

The first scenario just doesn't make any sense. "Mwahaha, I'll put a bunch of stolen goods on someone's ship for no reason! Mwahahaha!"

What if my cat would be dog? "She" would then be a "He" ? Just with more hair and less fur balls on the floor. We fail to see how this, insanity, goes with the topic.

It was meant to show how the Moon Shadow Clan is constantly saying "what if" or "maybe this" all the time. They are just throwing out random scenarios in an attempt to justify an illegal activity.

LIES, ASSUMPTIONS AND RUMORS !!! Exiles do not posses enough tools to build ships - all we have is small fishing boats - barely enough to carry us over to Nesse and fish around Exiled isle. Most of those "Exiled smugglers" are actually Citizens of Nesse or Merchants of Nesse who have no connection with Exiled isle.

Hmmm... Fascinating that you know so much about the smuggling operation and everyone involved in it.... Anyways, perhaps we will addmit that we jumped to conclusions in accusing all of the smugglers of being Exiles. However, it is safe to say that almost all of them have ties to the Exiles, and that a good deal of them are probably Exiles themselves.

And about the boat issue: All you would need is a small fishing boat to smuggle some goods to Nesse. As a matter of fact, it would probably be a prefered method for some of the poorer smugglers, as a fishing vessel is much more stealthy than a larger boat.

Where, in your (humble) opinion, would Exiles get ships, manpower, contacts AND GOODS to actually do some smuggling?

There are plenty of people on Exile Island. Or perhaps too many. So there's the manpower question. Contacts could be made with Exiles pretending to be Nessers, or a few rotten apples that are residing in Nesse. Ships would be easy, seeing as how all you would need are either fishing boats, or just steal a merchant's ship. That's what Exiles like to do in their spare time, right? The goods could be recieved from the Sea Kingdom or any other outside source that isn't aware that they are trading with Exiles. Because really, why would someone in Nesse, want to help smuggle goods into Nesse? That makes no sense.

We, the Moon Shadow Clan did not oppose searching possible smugglers - if there are enough bystanders who can confirm that "search" was not faked and used for an excuse to assasinate opposing family members for political or whatever other reasons. We did not oppose posting a Reward for catching smugglers. We are on the same side - but we follow laws (both moral and written ones).

We are fully willing to allow bystanders and third-parties witness our effective searches of smuggler ships and our capture of such dastardly beings.

 

[Bil]

TO: All
FROM: The Fiddling Conclave

We Fiddlers would like to request donations of scrap materials left over by the various manufacturing and resource harvesting operations in and around Nesse. Nothing that will be costing you anything, simply what you would be throwing away anyway, and we'll even pick it up. If you are interested in the donation of scrap materials, please let us know, and we shall arrange a collection duty on a weekly basis. We seeks scrap materials as a means of providing our chemists with researchable materials that might allow us to discover new properties or compounds, some of which might only be able to be discovered from manufactured waste.

Signed, 'Galigus Fiddler, Speaker of the Conclave'

 

[Shadowbound]

OOC: One man's garbage is another man's nobel prize.

 

[Bil]

OOC: Precisely!

 

[orangelex44]

Great update, Daft! Are stats done, too?

 

[Anonymoose]

So Uuta is that structure in the hills. Can I get an idea of the lodge's location in reference to Uuta? I sort of want to incorporate into any stories I write. I had imagined it in the larger forest to the south of where Uuta is now, but if that's not acceptable, I'm cool with whatever.

 

[Daftpanzer]

Hey thanks

Stats are updated except for missing things I accidentally missed out!

@Anonymoose, I had imagined the lodge as in the hills near to Uuta, but that doesn't matter, you can decide where it actually is.

 

[Ninja Dude]

OOC: Are we going to get any news about the smugglers? Also, did the move of the Ayla Clan from the inner part of the city to the outer walls due to our disagreement have any impact on The Ninticus or Alya Clans' images? The Ninticus Clan could be seen as cruel, oppressive, or maybe victorius and just with the moving of the Alya Clan, while the Alya Clan could be seen in a sympathetic light, or they could have a little dip in their prestige, having moved out of their ancestral homes due to an argument with another clan.

 

[Luckymoose]

I kind of dropped out of the loop on this one, will try to get back into it.

 

[Daftpanzer]

OOC: Are we going to get any news about the smugglers? Also, did the move of the Ayla Clan from the inner part of the city to the outer walls due to our disagreement have any impact on The Ninticus or Alya Clans' images? The Ninticus Clan could be seen as cruel, oppressive, or maybe victorius and just with the moving of the Alya Clan, while the Alya Clan could be seen in a sympathetic light, or they could have a little dip in their prestige, having moved out of their ancestral homes due to an argument with another clan.

I don't know what else to say about the smuggling, its clearly organised from the exile island, but there are lots of candidates for the middle men.

Ninticus may be seen as greedy, but on the other hand people don't like the idea of exile assasins wandering about. EDIT: so they support the idea of guarded gates and stuff!

Alya have gained support from outer city to make up for the loss of prestige. They are fortunate that the earthquake has ruined everyone's old mansions/villas anyway.

 

[orangelex44]

Question about stats: are the +manpower, +wealth, etc. etc. compounded? In other words, if you have +wealth one turn and +wealth again the next, is that a net ++wealth?



I can't believe I never noticed I had a village... I feel so proud...


EDIT: pseudo-IC - and once again, the Orange Clan maintains that what Nesse calls "smuggling" is simply rightful trade, since the city relinquished control of the Exiles when they threw us out.

EDIT2: another question - are Assets introduced yet? Because I'd like to think my village/fort would count, somehow.