Middle Ages unit names

WildWeazel · May 30, 2004

I'm working on a mod and I've run into a problem in the Middle Ages. I need a defensive unit to go in between pikeman and musketman, and also 2 offensive units between man-at-arms and doughboy, but I don't know what to use. My mid-game upgrade path looks like this:

Offense: Longswordsman>Man-at-arms>? :confused:

?> ? :confused:

?> doughboy
Defense: Pikeman> ? :confused:

?> Musketman>Rifleman
"Ranged": Crossbowman> Grenadier> Mortar

Some names I have are fusilier, flintlock, aquebusier(?), hand cannoneer, and musket infantry, but I don't know what differences there are between some or where they should go in the upgrade path. :crazyeye:

Any help would be appreciated.

Supa · May 30, 2004

Pikeman > Arquebusier > Musketman > Rifleman, I would propose.

The musketman in vanilla civ is an arquebusier, in fact.
Flintlock would be for musketman, I think.

I've integrated hand cannoner like this :
Archer > Longbowman > Crossbowman > Hand cannonner > Flame Thrower > Bazooka.

aaminion00 · May 30, 2004

Offense: Longswordsman>Man-at-arms> Arquebusier> Fusileer> doughboy
Defense: Pikeman> Musketman> Grenaider > Rifleman
"Ranged": Crossbowman> ?> Mortar

WildWeazel · May 30, 2004

Thanks both of you. What exactly is are arquebusier and fusilier anyway? Could one be offensive and the other defensive?

The Last Conformist · May 30, 2004

Arquebusier is a wielder of a kind of early hand-held firearm. Fusiliers are musket-armed light infanrty. Either can be offense or defense with the same logic Musketmen are defense and Med Inf offense (ie, none at all).

bogdanSUPERIUS · May 30, 2004

Offense: Man-at-arms>>>Arquebusier> Musketman>>>>Fusileer>>>Imperial Marine
Defense: Pikeman>>>>Halbeldier>>>>Imperial Guard>>>Grenader>Rifleman
"Ranged": Longbowman>Crossbowman> Hand cannonner> :confused:

WildWeazel · May 30, 2004

I want to keep grenadier in the "ranged" group, as they will all have defensive (0-range) bombard ability. I'll probably do something like this:

Offense: Longswordsman>>>Man-at-arms>>>>Arquebusier>>>>????>>>>Doughboy
defense: Pikeman>>>>Halberdier>>>>Fusilier>>>>Musketman>>>>Rifleman
Bombard: Crossbowman>>>>Hand Cannoneer>>>>Grenadier>>>>Mortar

Anything out of order there? I want at least 1 unit between Arquebusier and Doughboy, maybe 1 for colonial era and one for civil war era, without being too nation-specific. Was there any difference in offensive and defensive infantry in the colonial age?

The Last Conformist · May 31, 2004

What's a Doughboy?

I'd probably switch Musketman and Fusilier around.

WS78 · May 31, 2004

Agree with Conformist on fusil and Musketman.

WildWeazel · May 31, 2004

A doughboy was a WWI infantryman. The name came from the pack they wore that apparently looked like dough.
I still can't think of anything to put between Arquebusier and Doughboy. That's a pretty big gap compared to the rest. What was offensive infantry called?
EDIT: I noticed that in Steph's mod he made all Middle Age infantry uprade to musketeer, but then you lose the distinct chains. Did musketmen do everything?
EDIT2: Hey, if you highlight the confused icon it looks like a little demon- kinda funny :lol:

Master Kodama · Jun 1, 2004

Keep in mind that an arquebusier is a matchlock unit, and should probably come with the tech "matchlock" while fusiliers and musketmen would come with (or after) a "flintlock" tech later on.

Here's my take on your current tree:

Offense: Longswordsman>>>Med. Infantry???>>>>Man-at-arms>>>>Fusilier>>>>Doughboy
defense: Pikeman>>>>Halberdier>>>>Arquebusier>>>>Musketman>>>>Rifleman
Bombard: Crossbowman>>>>Hand Cannoneer>>>>Grenadier>>>>Mortar

I am assuming here you're using the Man-at-arms model with the sword and pistolized early gun combo. Also, if you wanted to add a fifth "rung" to the bombard tree, you could put "Arbalest" in between Crossbowman and Hand Cannoneer. That way you could have three sets of five units, and they'd all match up (relatively) nicely.

WildWeazel · Jun 1, 2004

Master Kodama said:
Here's my take on your current tree:

Offense: Longswordsman>>>Med. Infantry???>>>>Man-at-arms>>>>Fusilier>>>>Doughboy
defense: Pikeman>>>>Halberdier>>>>Arquebusier>>>>Musketman>>>>Rifleman
Bombard: Crossbowman>>>>Hand Cannoneer>>>>Grenadier>>>>Mortar

That looks good from what I've read.

Master Kodama said:
I am assuming here you're using the Man-at-arms model with the sword and pistolized early gun combo. Also, if you wanted to add a fifth "rung" to the bombard tree, you could put "Arbalest" in between Crossbowman and Hand Cannoneer. That way you could have three sets of five units, and they'd all match up (relatively) nicely.

Yes, that's the one I'm using. Arbalest sounds good too, to make it all match up.
Like I mentioned before, I looked at some other mods, and saw that Steph's mod and DYP both combined defensive and offensive infantry at musketmen, and use basic infantry for dual roles from there on. Cavalry pickes up the major offensive power, which is later transitioned to armor. I guess this is more historically accurate, and eliminates the need of so many different units.
So with that said, I may do something like this:

Longswordsman >>> Midieval Inf >>> Man-at-arms >>> (Musketman)
Pikeman >>> Halberdier >>> Arquebusier >>> Musketman >> Fusilier >>> Rifleman >>> ....Doughboy.... modern infantry etc
Crossbowman >>> Arbalest >>> Hand Cannoneer >>> Grenadier >>> Mortar

Master Kodama · Jun 2, 2004

WWWeasel said:
Longswordsman >>> Midieval Inf >>> Man-at-arms >>> (Musketman)
Pikeman >>> Halberdier >>> Arquebusier >>> Musketman >> Fusilier >>> Rifleman >>> ....Doughboy.... modern infantry etc
Crossbowman >>> Arbalest >>> Hand Cannoneer >>> Grenadier >>> Mortar

Actually, that looks like it would work quite nice, with the Man-at-arms upgrading to the Musketman. I may have to implement such a convergence in my next mod. That is, if I can ever finish the current one.

Supa · Jun 2, 2004

I've done the same but the Warrior-line merge with the Archer-line and not the Spear one.

WildWeazel · Jun 2, 2004

Well, thanks for all the help everybody! :goodjob:

I've decided to use that last one, except I'll just call Doughboy Infantry since doughboy is just a US nickname, and replace mortar with bazooka.

Middle Ages unit names

WildWeazel

Going Dutch

Supa

Out of Cheese Error

aaminion00

Stoned

WildWeazel

Going Dutch

The Last Conformist

Irresistibly Attractive

bogdanSUPERIUS

Go Philly Go

WildWeazel

Going Dutch

The Last Conformist

Irresistibly Attractive

WS78

Chill moan!

WildWeazel

Going Dutch

Master Kodama

Nitpicker

WildWeazel

Going Dutch

Master Kodama

Nitpicker

Supa

Out of Cheese Error

WildWeazel

Going Dutch

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