17 Year old Black girl punched by White police officer for jaywalking

[civ_king]

What about batons? Tough enough to literally beat the crap out of someone, but no chance of misfire

 

[GinandTonic]

Why would he use a baton? All he has to do if cuff the smaller girl. Pull her arm up quite hard and slap a cuff on it. He's a big lad. He's got what five stone on the smaller girl? Stop waiting for her to stop buggering around and comply - put her arm up her back and stick a cuff on it. It is what he is supposed to do for a living.

He doesnt need to punch anyone. He doesnt need to put a gun in anyones face. He doesnt need his batton. He doesnt need to pissoff the bystanders until there is a fear they could intervene. He just needs to do his job.

 

[Methos]

Isn't this why the police have guns? No don't misinterpret what I'm saying, there is no no no no no way he should have actually used it. BUT, perhaps instead of having to resort to physical violence I'm sure holding the gun in someone's face or firing it in the air could get compliance pretty quickly.

Not only no, but heck no. A gun doesn't de-escalate a situation, it tends to escalate it. Plus, you should never pull your gun unless you intend to fire it, or for a cop, believe it may be necessary to fire it.

I'm not a cop, but I do have my concealed carry license and I do carry wherever its legal to do so.

 

[nc-1701]

This is actually an interesting case as I fall on the opposite of it as the one I usually fall on in these types of cases. Typically I see police brutality in most of these instances, but in this case I see it differently here's why.

This policeman did not drastically escalate the situation by pulling a weapon. Typically police respond to someone unruly by using (potentially) deadly weapons which is almost never a reasonable response. Here he responded to unarmed physical resistance in the same manner avoiding the introduction of deadly weapons. For this he is to commended.
However it should be noted what he did without backup was incredibly stupid, if he truly felt like he was in danger at that point he should have retreated and called for backup. In fact I don't see why letting the whole thing go would have been so horrible she was jaywalking not exactly a major criminal offense, and it seems to me that if you do something and it causes an angry flash mob to form then maybe in the interest of the general peace and tranquility you should just chill and let it go?
On the other hand if he lost his temper and thought he was "putting the girls in their place" deserved or not it was incredibly stupid. Notice how after he hits the girl in pink the other girl comes right behind him and grabs at his back? If she had a knife or was trained in any decent martial art he would now be dead or paralyzed (knife just about anywhere or an elbow dropped on the back of his neck) just because he thought he deserved more respect. Especially considering the surrounding mob...

All that said I think he was being exceedingly dumb and a bit of a dick, but he's certainly more in the right than either of the girls were and when the chips fall I think he should keep his job and maybe get a little retraining but not face any real penalties for this. He showed excellent and commendable restraint by not pulling a weapon and I wish more cops would follow his example.
As for the girls it goes without saying they were being stupid and obviously resisting arrest. Though the claim that the girl in pink was assaulting him is crap, she was simply intervening as a human shield for her friend and protecting herself with her hands, it was clear from the video that she made no attempt to harm the officer only to prevent him from arresting the other girl. This is still illegal but it sure as hell isn't assault.

 

[civ_king]

If police catch people breaking the laws and they aren't currently in the pursuit of more important matters then they should follow the law

 

[amadeus]

Officer needs proper training on de-escalation techniques and getting into this situation after a jaywalking incident is amateur hour-time. Cop needs to go back to the academy or sit behind a desk.

In the officer's defense, did we see the road that she had crossed? If I were a cop, I'd bust somebody for jaywalking if there is reason to believe that she could have endangered the lives of others by doing so -- causing traffic to come to an abrupt halt, possibly causing an accident. If the officer was just being petty and busting her because he was bored, I think it's a little different.

Regardless, the law is the law and if we break it, sometimes there are consequences to face. All in all, being given a verbal rebuke by a cop is probably better than getting cuffed, booked, and getting a misdemeanor charge.

 

[Silurian]

In the officer's defense, did we see the road that she had crossed? If I were a cop, I'd bust somebody for jaywalking if there is reason to believe that she could have endangered the lives of others by doing so -- causing traffic to come to an abrupt halt, possibly causing an accident. If the officer was just being petty and busting her because he was bored, I think it's a little different.

How would she have endangered lives by crossing slow moving traffic with large gaps to cross in.

 

[Berzerker]

jaywalking is an artform

cops gotta know that, we jaywalkers are consenting to death rather than give in to idiot lights

the cop shouldn't have punched a woman and I'm very dubious about jaywalking laws (and the cops who enforce them) but he did a decent job otherwise. Apology to the woman he hit, let the jaywalker go with a warning, and all is fine with the world.

 

[Bugfatty300]

How would she have endangered lives by crossing slow moving traffic with large gaps to cross in.

As a driver, just because I don't see any other traffic around doesn't give me a pass to run red lights or roll past stop signs. The same applies for pedestrians crossing certain roads.

 

[Berzerker]

according to the law pedestrians always have the right of way, that makes it illogical to ticket a pedestrian

 

[Silurian]

From CBS

Seattle police monitors have been warning for years that jaywalking stops often escalate into confrontations with police.

An officer struggling with two jaywalkers Monday punched one of them, and a video of the fight led civil rights groups to accuse police of an overreaction.

In an audit last year, the Office of Professional Accountability said complaints against police often originated with a jaywalker refusing an officer's order to stop. The office made a similar finding in 2007.

The girl crossed the road in a group of four girls.
Th police man was already busy dealing with another person who walked across the road so he asked them to stop but was ignored.

One of the girls was already in trouble for kicking a police man.
A local school had requested the police to take action about its pupils jaywalking.

The public do not view this place as an unsafe place to cross and policing should be done by consent from the majority. If there are people continously crossing the road at the same point as a footbridge then there is something wrong with the footbridge.

 

[Bugfatty300]

If there are people continously crossing the road at the same point as a footbridge then there is something wrong with the footbridge.

It absolutely HAS to be a problem with the pedestrian bridge. Could the problem be that a lot of people are simply too lazy to walk up stairs? No way. Not in a million years. Nope. Definitely a problem with the bridge.

 

[amadeus]

How would she have endangered lives by crossing slow moving traffic with large gaps to cross in.

Wish you'd read my post, because then I'd save time and bandwidth by not having to repost this:

...I'd bust somebody for jaywalking if there is reason to believe that she could have endangered the lives of others by doing so...

It absolutely HAS to be a problem with the pedestrian bridge. Could the problem be that a lot of people are simply too lazy to walk up stairs? No way. Not in a million years. Nope. Definitely a problem with the bridge.

Yeah, around where I live there's a pedestrian bridge and a crosswalk. I'd rather just wait for the crosswalk than climb up the stairs.

 

[Silurian]

It absolutely HAS to be a problem with the pedestrian bridge. Could the problem be that a lot of people are simply too lazy to walk up stairs? No way. Not in a million years. Nope. Definitely a problem with the bridge.

Roads and the footbridges have to be designed for the people who use them.

If people do not use the footbridge then the design has failed in some way.

The route over the footbridge is not on the desired route of the pedestrians.

The footbridge should have been built closer to the desired route or if this was not economic then the desired route should have been made less desirable (Fence, throrn bush one side of road etc)

 

[Silurian]

amadeus@
The traffic was moving at less than 30mph generally 15mph with lagre gaps (the other road looked to be about 40mph)

A group of four girls walking across the road were unlikely to cause an accident to a driver who is driving with due care and attention. It was not dark or raining and there were no large vehicles to hide them, one was in pink; so they would have been seen. Any accident that did occur would have only caused injury to one of the girls unless something very unusual happened.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Roads and the footbridges have to be designed for the people who use them.

If people do not use the footbridge then the design has failed in some way.

The route over the footbridge is not on the desired route of the pedestrians.

The footbridge should have been built closer to the desired route or if this was not economic then the desired route should have been made less desirable (Fence, trorn bush one side of road etc)

Don't change the scenario to fit your argument. At least be consistent.

You just said:

If there are people continously crossing the road AT THE SAME POINT as a footbridge then there is something wrong with the footbridge

Other than laziness or physical impairment what possible excuse is there for not using the bridge that is at the same location that you're trying to cross? Especially when taking a direct route means a possible negative encounter with police?

 

[Fifty]

Why would he use a baton? All he has to do if cuff the smaller girl. Pull her arm up quite hard and slap a cuff on it. He's a big lad. He's got what five stone on the smaller girl? Stop waiting for her to stop buggering around and comply - put her arm up her back and stick a cuff on it. It is what he is supposed to do for a living.

When she is resisting like that -- and keeping in mind that black women tend to be stronger than white women -- it is likely that he would have to take her down to the ground to get her hand behind her back properly.

Then we'd see the thread "RASIST WHITE PIG BODY SLAMS INNOCENT BLACK FEMALE HONOR STUDENT!!!!!", with you and everyone else going "hmm, I understand it was a tense situation but he could have waited before cuffing her for her to calm down... its not like she had a gun on her or anything!"

 

[Silurian]

Don't change the scenario to fit your argument. At least be consistent.


Other than laziness or physical impairment what possible excuse is there for not using the bridge that is at the same location that you're trying to cross? Especially when taking a direct route means a possible negative encounter with police?

I am not changing my argument.

The altercation with the police is taking place just south of where the footbridge crosses the road to the west. On the other side of the road the footbridge appears to curve to the north but there are no steps or ramps up to the foot bridge at this point.

The point where the footbridge crosses the road is not what matters. How people get to the footbridge is what matters. If they have to walk too far out of there way they will not use it and therefore it is badly designed.

If a number of people other people are also crossing the road at the same point why would the girls assume that they would be stopped by the police.

 

[illram]

In the officer's defense, did we see the road that she had crossed? If I were a cop, I'd bust somebody for jaywalking if there is reason to believe that she could have endangered the lives of others by doing so -- causing traffic to come to an abrupt halt, possibly causing an accident. If the officer was just being petty and busting her because he was bored, I think it's a little different.

Regardless, the law is the law and if we break it, sometimes there are consequences to face. All in all, being given a verbal rebuke by a cop is probably better than getting cuffed, booked, and getting a misdemeanor charge.

Even disregarding what I suspect to have been poor verbal judo that contributed to being in the situation where use of force was needed (for a jaywalking ticket), once it did escalate, the officer continues to demonstrate poor judgment. For instance, where is his backup? He's not even on the radio. Why did this guy think he could just handle two obviously unruly women with a crowd of onlookers on his own? Proper procedure in that situation is getting backup immediately. The number of poor judgment calls here was astounding. And did you watch the rest of the video? After he punches the woman he runs after the other one and still can't restrain her and doesn't even look like he is putting cuffs on her, just trying to wrestle, with a bunch of people watching and still no backup and no cuffs. This guy is obviously out of his depth, I mean it looks like he doesn't even have basic pressure point holds down. Cops are usually pretty damn good at subduing you without having to resort to what they call "closed hand" force. That's what they're trained to do. Punching you is a last resort--this video does not scream "last resort" to me at all. This guy doesn't know what he's doing.

They're trained to avoid this kind of stuff. Bad press makes their job harder. That's why good discipline systems and behavioral tracking are needed on a force--spot problem guys like this and fix them before they pull a Mehserle on someone.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Jaywalking? Is it people crossing the street where not supposed to? You arrest people for that??? Whoa! Interesting...