2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Patine]

The only hope there is that Biden passes the torch to a new team in 2024

Kamala Harris is not an optimal starting point for that new team.

 

[Narz]

The only hope there is that Biden passes the torch to a new team in 2024

Can't wait for him to pass the torch, we need a new brand of democrats that snatch it.

An Andrew Yang but with a bit more fire in the belly.

"When y'all was asking permission I just stepped up and took it" (Lexius should approve)

 

[El_Machinae]

It could be snatched, I guess. What I mean is that the improvement in the party needs to be planned around 2024.

 

[Sommerswerd]

The only hope there is that Biden passes the torch to a new team in 2024

So many sauces... so many hats... so little time.

 

[Sommerswerd]

It could be snatched, I guess. What I mean is that the improvement in the party needs to be planned around 2024.

Well we're locked into Biden-Harris until 2028,unless of course, Trump wins, and then we can look forward to AOC in 2024... again assuming that we aren't dead from COVID by then

 

[Lemon Merchant]

again assuming that we aren't dead from COVID by then

Wait? What? "Oh no, it's mild. Passes very quickly. I've heard that most people have very minor symptoms. We'll have a vaccine by October..."

Someone needs to tell His Orangeness that the sky IS falling and he'd better get the American people out of the way by the fall when this thing begins to grow exponentially faster. We're not wasting any time up here in Canada. We're trying to get ahead of this. I've already got my schedule of ER shifts for October, and I expect that I will be back sooner than that. Much of my practice will be taken up by others as I'm volunteering on the front line, so it will delay my career just a tiny bit, and I'll have to try to re-establish things after COVID is all over (or at least when we have a vaccine), but that is the price I pay for the oath I took.

If the US lawmakers can't get a handle on this virus, by next year the casualty rate will make a war on American soil look like a cakewalk by comparison in terms of casualty rate. Americans are dying needlessly and it is going to continue unless someone has the balls to do something about it and stop worrying about how it affects his election chances.

[/rant]

 

[EnglishEdward]

Apex government by robotic, mode-swapping, soulless bureaucrats with no true personal investment or belief in any of the issues? Is this what you're praising, or am I reading this wrong?

Well I suppose if one thinks the system is so bad it must be destroyed, one would logicaly vote for Donald Trump again.

It's also worth noting that they are pretending prosecutorial discretion isn't a thing.

The US is a nation which is DESPERATELY in need of serious criminal justice reform.

A former prosecutor does not have the moral authority to lead us at this moment in our history.

I can understand that viewpoint, but there is its corrollary.

IIRC Richard Nixon was noted as an anti-communist, and paradoxically that made it easier for him to have the USA recognise communist China
because his anti-communism protected him from right wingers. I believe that a prosecutor with a reputation for being hard line is in a better position
to reform criminal justice than more obvious moral crusaders in that her reputation will protect her from reactionary claims that she is soft on criminals.

.

 

[Hrothbern]

I think the big struggle at this moment is NOT a whole bunch of agenda points of the past decades, but in how far Trump is allowed for another four years to add more autocratic elements into the US institutions and laws.

Do mind that having a democracy is NOT having "democratic" elections.
Democratic elections only enable democracy.

It is what elected people do when working as representatives for their people and the people's country that determines whether you have a democracy.

Trump is attacking and eroding this whole chain of democracy... every link of it.


For many USians I guess less important:
Trump's foreign policy is doing the same

That in a changing world the US is repositioning itself, covered by the slogan America #1, would also have happened without Trump. And was indeed happening also under Obama.
Beneath the turmoil of Trump's foreign policy is however the continuous attacking of countries and any supranational effort accompanied with a focus to talk and make deals with autocrats only.


November 3 will be pivotal.

 

[Kyriakos]

Now that Biden was attacked by Turkey, for calling it names, I'd vote for him even if his vp was Hillary

 

[Patine]

Well I suppose if one thinks the system is so bad it must be destroyed, one would logicaly vote for Donald Trump again.

I didn't say the system should be destroyed, just seriously reformed and improved in many significant. And, apparently, you seem to be of the belief that significant unhappiness with a system means such a person might as well be assumed to support ANYONE who has an agenda of upending or radically changing affairs, whether for good, bad, a mix, disaster, or it's sake. What braindead, zombie-like, arrogant pro-Establishment claptrap.

I can understand that viewpoint, but there is its corrollary.

IIRC Richard Nixon was noted as an anti-communist, and paradoxically that made it easier for him to have the USA recognise communist China
because his anti-communism protected him from right wingers. I believe that a prosecutor with a reputation for being hard line is in a better position
to reform criminal justice than more obvious moral crusaders in that her reputation will protect her from reactionary claims that she is soft on criminals.

.

I don't see it as working the same at all, as I'm not confident any criminal justice reform will actually if she gets the reigns of power.

I think the big struggle at this moment is NOT a whole bunch of agenda points of the past decades, but in how far Trump is allowed for another four years to add more autocratic elements into the US institutions and laws.

Do mind that having a democracy is NOT having "democratic" elections.
Democratic elections only enable democracy.

It is what elected people do when working as representatives for their people and the people's country that determines whether you have a democracy.

Trump is attacking and eroding this whole chain of democracy... every link of it.


For many USians I guess less important:
Trump's foreign policy is doing the same

That in a changing world the US is repositioning itself, covered by the slogan America #1, would also have happened without Trump. And was indeed happening also under Obama.
Beneath the turmoil of Trump's foreign policy is however the continuous attacking of countries and any supranational effort accompanied with a focus to talk and make deals with autocrats only.


November 3 will be pivotal.

This is yet another example of the paramount failure and betrayal, the climax of the criminal rigging, electoral malfeasance and interference, and high treason committed by those groups who criminally ensure only a Republican or a Democrat EVER win the vast majority of elections. Because Trump is so horrible (I won't deny it), but these traitors and enemies of their own nation, committing the same crime the alleged Russian hackers from 2016, but serially, for decades, have arranged, like almost always, that only one rival ticket has the ability to otherwise win, electoral blackmail and coercion becomes possible (and is rampantly being), and it is declared that no examination or criticism of the flaws that Biden and Harris might bring to the table in and of themselves, is allowed, because Trump's so horrible, and the seditious electoral caudillos - who should all be removed be from their positions of power over elections (none of which are given by the U.S. Constitution and very few directly by U.S. Statutes) and be in serving life sentences in prison - ensure no other choices are allowed.

 

[stinkubus]

The constitution specifically delegates power over elections to the individual states. By definition almost anything they want to do is constitutional.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I didn't say the system should be destroyed, just seriously reformed and improved in many significant. And, apparently, you seem to be of the belief that significant unhappiness with a system means such a person might as well be assumed to support ANYONE who has an agenda of upending or radically changing affairs, whether for good, bad, a mix, disaster, or it's sake. What braindead, zombie-like, arrogant pro-Establishment claptrap.

Why do you think people voted for Donald Trump in 2016 ?

I don't see it as working the same at all, as I'm not confident any criminal justice reform will actually if she gets the reigns of power.

I am not particularly optimistic about criminal justice reform, but I fail to see why Kamala Harris will block it.

This is yet another example of the paramount failure and betrayal, the climax of the criminal rigging, electoral malfeasance and interference, and high treason committed by those groups who criminally ensure only a Republican or a Democrat EVER win the vast majority of elections. Because Trump is so horrible (I won't deny it), but these traitors and enemies of their own nation, committing the same crime the alleged Russian hackers from 2016, but serially, for decades, have arranged, like almost always, that only one rival ticket has the ability to otherwise win, electoral blackmail and coercion becomes possible (and is rampantly being), and it is declared that no examination or criticism of the flaws that Biden and Harris might bring to the table in and of themselves, is allowed, because Trump's so horrible, and the seditious electoral caudillos - who should all be removed be from their positions of power over elections (none of which are given by the U.S. Constitution and very few directly by U.S. Statutes) and be in serving life sentences in prison - ensure no other choices are allowed.

As you keep using the term, I looked up high treason in wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_United_Kingdom

Difficult to see its relevance in the USA.

 

[Patine]

The constitution specifically delegates power over elections to the individual states. By definition almost anything they want to do is constitutional.

I don't think there was a specific moment in time when all 50 States gave full power over the electoral proceedings, de facto, to the DNC, the RNC, the BIPARTISAN (not non-partisan) FEC, and the Media Barons. It seems it was a corrupt and accumulative power creep, like most Machiavellian corrupt seizures of illegal but de facto soft and behind-the-curtain power. And I'd actually highly doubt a single State could - de facto, if not de jure - even "opt out," of continuing support for the criminal electoral rigging scheme, realistically.

 

[Patine]

Why do you think people voted for Donald Trump in 2016 ?




I am not particularly optimistic about criminal justice reform, but I fail to see why Kamala Harris will block it.




As you keep using the term, I looked up high treason in wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_United_Kingdom

Difficult to see its relevance in the USA.

I use the word "treason," in a rhetorical sense of a portrayal of the concepts of justice and good governance, like Enlightenment thinkers used when criticizing and castigating their authoritarian governments. I'm sure most First World criminal codes have the crooks and traitors running them fully immune and having their butts covered from any such judicial indictment.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well we're locked into Biden-Harris until 2028,unless of course, Trump wins, and then we can look forward to AOC in 2024... again assuming that we aren't dead from COVID by then

I don't think the Democrat party can survive 2024 without reinventing itself. Biden is going to be a one-term president, because he's rebuilding into a disaster and then won't look very good. Plus Trump 2.0 will be in full-swing by then.

 

[Patine]

I don't think the Democrat party can survive 2024 without reinventing itself. Biden is going to be a one-term president, because he's rebuilding into a disaster and then won't look very good. Plus Trump 2.0 will be in full-swing by then.

Who is Trump 2.0?

 

[stinkubus]

I don't think there was a specific moment in time when all 50 States gave full power over the electoral proceedings, de facto, to the DNC, the RNC, the BIPARTISAN (not non-partisan) FEC, and the Media Barons. It seems it was a corrupt and accumulative power creep, like most Machiavellian corrupt seizures of illegal but de facto soft and behind-the-curtain power. And I'd actually highly doubt a single State could - de facto, if not de jure - even "opt out," of continuing support for the criminal electoral rigging scheme, realistically.

States that allow public referendum could easily break it up.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I don't think the Democrat party can survive 2024 without reinventing itself. Biden is going to be a one-term president, because he's rebuilding into a disaster and then won't look very good. Plus Trump 2.0 will be in full-swing by then.

How are you defining "survive"?

 

[El_Machinae]

How are you defining "survive"?

Having a chance at winning 2024, I mean. That very much isn't encapsulated in 'survive', so thanks for asking.

 

[Patine]

States that allow public referendum could easily break it up.

Theoretically, yes. But would the corrupt electoral caudillos accept that, or pull every crooked, cheap, and underhanded trick to undermine such and effort, and coerce such a State back into the rigged line?

 

[Patine]

Having a chance at winning 2024, I mean. That very much isn't encapsulated in 'survive', so thanks for asking.

How are you defining "survive"?

The fact that neither nor both of the major U.S. do realistically have their survival as political entities threatened show just how rigged and corrupted, and NOT healthy, free-and-fair, or with REAL electoral choice the U.S. party system actually is. It's one of the five WORST political partisan systems and cultures in the First World, along with Japan, Singapore, Portugal, and Hungary.