2K developer weekend on Steam - still no sale on DLCs

Oh I checked... £4.49 for One Civ ! Nubia

.... £8.99 Khmer & Indonesia....

It's not the money that bothers me... It's lack of value ! Just the pure greed of the devs squeezing out every penny for hardly anything... Should concentrate on fixing all the bugs and designing a proper UI before squeezing customers endlessly ....

Comments like these are really unfortunate... Firaxis - the devs - don't set the price. They also don't necessarily set the agenda for what to work on.

I'd also add that it's not like there's one guy on the Firaxis team who's been put in a corner and told "Pump out some DLC leaders for us that we can sell to rip off our customers". Think about all the different elements that have to be prepared just for a single DLC leader - a designer needs to work on the abilities, an animator and modeler need to produce the leader themselves, plus the unique unit and infrastructure, someone has to be hired to do the voice and someone else needs to research the language they should use and write the lines, the composer has to create another four era themes for the civ's background music. Once all that's done the QA department has to make sure the new civ actually works as intended. Don't forget there is also normally a scenario and perhaps a new wonder or natural wonder that accompanies each leader, so that adds another few people working on that aspect.

I would say, at a low estimate, at least a dozen different people will work on one DLC. They are never going to be able to sell the things for like £2-3 based on the amount of time and work they have to put into each one, and accusing them of existing purely out of greed is absurd.
 
All that supposed hard work is a fraction of the hard work that goes into an expansion, and yet Rise and Fall with 9 leaders and 8 civs sold for $30. If it was priced as the DLC was, it would have been at least $40 for the 8 new Civs (with an extra price for the ninth leader).

Commensurate with pricing schemes for the original VI and expansion, DLC are overpriced.

No one denies making games is hard work, but that's not the issue. The issue is, pound for Poundmaker, are DLC price fairly compared to an expansion? Compared to the original? The answer is no.
 
The whole DLC-pricing is a sad story since there is no separate Season Pass which is unusual.
I was lucky to get my DLCs with a 3rd-party-discount.
There really should be a Season Pass / DLC-bundle for those who preordered / bought the vanilla version early.

I hope Civ 7 won't exploit the DLCs too much and will stick to 2-3 well-rounded Expansions.
A NIGHTMARE-DLC-concept for Civ7 might look as follows :
Spoiler :

- A free base game without content
- 100 different Techs as DLCs, 5$ each,
- 100 different Cultural Advances as DLCs, 5$ each,
- 100 different Buildings as DLCs, 5$ each,
- 100 different Military Units as DLCs, 5$ each,
- 100 different Terrain Tiles and Tile-Improvements as DLCs, 5$ each,
- 100 different Civs as DLCs, 5$ each,
- 100 different Wonders as DLCs, 5$ each
- 100 different Natural Wonders as DLCs, 5$ each
...
The actual game to play would depend on unlocked DLCs ...

(This concept is an overstatement / exaggeration to indicate what most players probably would not like to see ... It is not a direct critique on Firaxis' current DLC policy since the current DLCs are more like small content bundles.)
 
It's not the money that bothers me... It's lack of value ! Just the pure greed of the devs squeezing out every penny for hardly anything... Should concentrate on fixing all the bugs and designing a proper UI before squeezing customers endlessly ....

Games are cheaper now than they have ever been. The price of a full game has remained virtually steady since the 90s, while inflation has gone up 82% since 1991, when the original Civilization was released. A game which cost $50 in 1991 should cost over $90 now. Games also are more expensive to make now than ever before. I couldn't find specific numbers for the Civilization series, but it's a safe bet that Civ6 cost at least several million to make, and not unlikely that it may have gone into the double-digit millions.

Add on top of that unrealistic pricing expectations from game consumers that are created by Steam (and other digital platforms) sales, and frankly game companies really can't win. Players expect higher quality than ever before, and want to pay less than ever before. A full-priced game is now considered overpriced, which is ridiculous, and does not fairly reflect that development costs have increased while the MSRP has not. And on top of this, there is no guarantee that steady sales will continue after the initial launch because there is now so much competition, so publishers need to try to recoup most, if not all, of the cost of development within the first few months of release. Note that I said "recoup" - obviously ideally the publisher wants to make a profit, but for large project there have to be significant sales success just to break even, especially considering the fact that we as consumers are generally underpaying (even at $60) for a new game.

Now let's talk about DLC. DLC accomplishes (at least) three things:
  1. Keep bringing existing customers back to the game
  2. Maintains a steady stream of income to fund continued development and development for future projects
  3. Bring in new customers by keeping game content in the "new releases" category and thus keep continued visibility in an over-saturated market
Contrary to what you seem to think, DLC is not cheap to produce. At the very least, DLC requires the following contributors: designer, programmer, artist, modeller, voice actor, writer, QA. Probably a few more - and almost certainly more than one of each of those. DLC takes several months to develop, and while each contributor doesn't need to simultaneously work full-time on that single project, they certainly need to keep coming back to the project to fix issues or provide updates as the development process continues. Paying those salaries, plus the salaries for support and administrative personnel, software, equipment, rent, utilities, and the fact that Valve takes 30% of the DLC revenue and 2k takes another unknown percent, bottom line is that Firaxis only receives a fraction of the DLC revenue and uses that revenue to, you know, pay their employee salaries. Oh - you want them to develop new games? Invest in new technology? That costs more money on top of just paying employees and keeping the doors open!

Firaxis' small DLC isn't even necessary to play the game. It doesn't add new gameplay features, it only adds new content that fits within the existing framework. So if you don't buy it you're not missing out on the full gameplay experience. I personally am glad for the steady drip of new DLC as it helps tide me over until the expansions drop and keeps me excited about the game and engaged as part of the broader community.

So this "greedy devs" BS needs to stop. You need to re-align your perspective of game costs with reality.

Haven't bought any civ6 DLC. When ever I get tempted to I just ask myself "Why not play with mods, they are free and some are better balanced than DLC?"
I have yet to think of a good answer to that question.

I hope you'll buy R&F if you haven't already, although perhaps you're talking about the smaller DLC. :) The new modding capabilities provided with each expansion mean that if you play with a ton of mods it's best to invest in the expansion so you continue to have access to all the mods.

Personally, while I would enjoy having the DLC, my potential enjoyment of the DLC does not outweigh the unhappiness I would get from knowing that I was conned into buying the game under one set of expectations only to find out that the Deluxe Edition would receive additional DLC and become the only viable method of getting a discount on any DLC. As it is I'm hesitant to buy any future products relating to this game because I don't want to make the same mistake of getting locked into a bad deal.

Perhaps you need to rethink what you view as a "bad deal". On a per hour of entertainment basis, Civ6 and its DLC is one of the best deals around at full price. Or if you don't try to quantify it on a per-hour basis, is one good game with Poland worth the price of a cup of coffee?

I say yes, but maybe the sugar and milk with mild coffee flavoring I occasionally treat myself to is too expensive. :dunno:

Oh, and FYI, the Indonesia/Khmer DLC is currently 12% off at the WinGameStore. If you're absolutely set on finding a discount, don't just look at Steam.
 
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The whole DLC-pricing is a sad story since there is no separate Season Pass which is unusual.
"Season Passes" as a concept are relatively new, and strategy games as a whole are not exactly the place where innovation lives. Also...

...in this case...

You're incorrect. There WAS a "season pass" sold. It's the Digital Deluxe edition, which included the base game AND all of the DLC before all of the DLC was released or even announced.
 
Nobody complains about DLC prices for people who want to play a DLC asap ...
The problem is that a (discounted) bundle / Season Pass is missing for those who can wait a year or two and just want to complete their Civ-Collection.
As a bundle the DLCs at the moment cost more than an expansion or the whole game, but provide less content (= value), so somewhere there is an imbalance.
By insisting that the DLCs are worth their price, the DLCs become kind of LUXURY-content which contradicts the normal Civilization philosophy.

I would prefer 2-3 well rounded expansions instead of distributing the content in a mass of DLCs (which sum up to a higher amount).

"Season Passes" as a concept are relatively new, and strategy games as a whole are not exactly the place where innovation lives. ...

Are you sure?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_Pass

The first Season Pass was created by Electronic Arts with their Battlefield 3 Premium pack in 2012, and was soon copied by 2K Games with Borderlands 2, who coined the name "Season Pass" for their own DLC pre-order offer.[1] By 2014, Season Passes had become "ubiquitous" in AAA games, due to their popularity amongst gamers.[2] As of 2018, Season Passes continue to be offered for many AAA games, although some publishers began to forgo offering them in favor of free DLC in 2017 due to the negative publicity created by their announcement shortly after release.[3] The rising popularity of loot boxes also played a role in the decreasing popularity of the Season Pass, although the gaming press has speculated that this may result in less post release content overall.[3]
 
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By insisting that the DLCs are worth their price, the DLCs become kind of LUXURY-content which contradicts the normal Civilization philosophy.
ALL video games are the kind of luxury content you are referring to.
 
Some of you really don't know how good we have it with Civ 6 DLC and just complain with entitled attitudes. You'd have aneurysms it they followed the Paradox model or nickel and dimed like Total War (in which activating blood is a paid dlc).

The Civ 6 DLC is priced more than fairly and as a Digital Deluxe owner I am ecstatic they have protected the value of my purchase.
 
Ok, so the term goes back a few years. But you chose to ignore that a "Season Pass" was offered (the Digital Deluxe edition).

So what is the issue, exactly? You're upset you didn't buy the season pass edition and now you want the season pass edition?
 
But you chose to ignore that a "Season Pass" was offered (the Digital Deluxe edition).

So what is the issue, exactly? You're upset you didn't buy the season pass edition and now you want the season pass edition?

The Deluxe-Pass was a black box offer with unknown content. It was likely that it would contain map packs or other stuff most people do not really need.

The problem is that a (discounted) bundle / Season Pass is missing for those who [bought vanilla but] can wait a year or two [for the extra content] and just want to complete their Civ-Collection.
As a bundle the DLCs at the moment cost more than an expansion or the whole game, but provide less content (= value), so somewhere there is an imbalance.

My experience from Civ 6 at the moment is :
If there are any kind of Season Passes, Deluxe Contents, DLCs ... Do not buy the game, wait a year or two and buy the whole bundle on sale.

The community seems to be split into two parties :
- one group which directly bought the Deluxe Edition in a gamble and is now happy having paid less for the DLCs than in a separate purchase and
- another group which purchased the standard edition and is now faced with a dead end situation where the price for the 6 DLCs is exceeding even the price of the Deluxe Edition.

The first group seems to be eager to defend 2K's DLC-price-policy to prevent the 2nd group of gaining access to the DLCs at a reasonable price to justify their own early gamble buying the Deluxe Edition.

.. .as a Digital Deluxe owner I am ecstatic they have protected the value of my purchase.

Really? Deluxe Edition is down to 32 $ or so ...
 
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Ok, so the term goes back a few years. But you chose to ignore that a "Season Pass" was offered (the Digital Deluxe edition).

So what is the issue, exactly? You're upset you didn't buy the season pass edition and now you want the season pass edition?

To sum things up briefly, yes, this is the exact problem. I was told the Digital Deluxe would include 4 DLC of completely unknown content. They could have given us 4 map maps, or 4 double-civ packs. Many people were wary of what would be included, and so decided to hold off on it.

However, once the initial packs were released, and we saw there was quality content there, the option to "upgrade" our game doesn't exist without paying full price. I'm not asking that the DLC all go on sale for 90% off, or that they give it away to us for free. I'm just interested in something that's essentially the same price as the upgrade would have been. Heck, even if it was a few dollars more, but followed the same sales, that would be nice.

For example, I'm currently in Europe, so the base game is 24 euro. The Digital Deluxe is 32E. The combined DLC content? 38E. The fact that it's literally cheaper for me to buy the digital deluxe edition and throw away the base content than it is to buy the DLC, is just weird to me. For content that's over a year old, and where the base game has already seen many sales, it still is kind of perplexing that there's been no way to get the DLC at any discount, except for a couple third-party seller sales.
 
Ok, in a weird way now I can vaguely see your point.

I will grant you two things:

1) It's weird that there is no "Upgrade to Digital Deluxe" option for owners of the base game, which I think is what you're saying you want.
and
2) Firaxis isn't the only company I've noticed that doesn't seem to ever (or at least rarely) put DLC on sale. It kind of annoys me, too. The base games will be 60, 70, or even 80% off, but the DLC costs can add up to be prohibitive if there isn't a "definitive" edition (like there is with Civ6).

So for a "new player" we'd be fine, you tell them "buy the Deluxe edition", no issues.

So now that I understand your specific issue, I'm cool with you. I can't stand the "omg DLC is evil all DLC should be free!" people, because that ship has sailed, DLC is a thing and it's staying. You're saying "I want to buy the DLC, but I have a mental block against buying another copy of the base game because I already own the base game and it's literally cheaper to buy that than it is to buy the DLC", which I can understand because that would also twitch me out. Unless Steam somehow allowed you to "gift" your (no longer needed) base game code to someone so they could play with you.
 
Ok, in a weird way now I can vaguely see your point.

I will grant you two things:

1) It's weird that there is no "Upgrade to Digital Deluxe" option for owners of the base game, which I think is what you're saying you want.
and
2) Firaxis isn't the only company I've noticed that doesn't seem to ever (or at least rarely) put DLC on sale. It kind of annoys me, too. The base games will be 60, 70, or even 80% off, but the DLC costs can add up to be prohibitive if there isn't a "definitive" edition (like there is with Civ6).

So for a "new player" we'd be fine, you tell them "buy the Deluxe edition", no issues.

So now that I understand your specific issue, I'm cool with you. I can't stand the "omg DLC is evil all DLC should be free!" people, because that ship has sailed, DLC is a thing and it's staying. You're saying "I want to buy the DLC, but I have a mental block against buying another copy of the base game because I already own the base game and it's literally cheaper to buy that than it is to buy the DLC", which I can understand because that would also twitch me out. Unless Steam somehow allowed you to "gift" your (no longer needed) base game code to someone so they could play with you.

Assume you preordered the standard edition of Civ6 in 2016 and you now in 2018 want to purchase the 6 DLCs (upgrade to Deluxe Edition) and you see that the Deluxe Edition is down to 32$, what would be a reasonable price for the DLC bundle / Deluxe upgrade for players who already own the standard edition?
 
Assume you preordered the standard edition of Civ6 in 2016 and you now in 2018 want to purchase the 6 DLCs (upgrade to Deluxe Edition) and you see that the Deluxe Edition is down to 32$, what would be a reasonable price for the DLC bundle / Deluxe upgrade for players who already own the standard edition?
... $32? That's cheaper than all the DLC alone, so you're getting a nice discount.
 
Assume you preordered the standard edition of Civ6 in 2016 and you now in 2018 want to purchase the 6 DLCs (upgrade to Deluxe Edition) and you see that the Deluxe Edition is down to 32$, what would be a reasonable price for the DLC bundle / Deluxe upgrade for players who already own the standard edition?
Ok. I'm a Sales/Marketing Guy, so I did some math.

I'm going from "Retail Price", because that has to be the benchmark, and I'm going to use the US dollar prices because that's what my Steam store is in. Your mileage my vary.

The base game is $60.
The Deluxe Edition is $80.
Rise and Fall is $30 (mostly irrelevant for this discussion, but I included is as a reference point).
All of the DLC combined is $38

My first "marketing guy" point is that I do *not* want to charge $20 for the upgrade, since that says it was ok to just buy the base game at launch and gives no advantage for the people that bought the Deluxe game right out of the gate. So there has to be some kind of "late enrollment" penalty. But it also has to be cheaper than just buying it all separate, because I want to give some incentive to buying ALL of the DLC at once, because otherwise it may encourage people to buy ala carte and maybe skip the 1 or 2 packs they don't want (example: 2 of the packs are $9 while 4 of them are $5).

So I'm thinking $25 or $28, not more than $30 for the Deluxe Upgrade.

But wait, you're about to howl, that's not that great of a deal, because it's only $2 more to get the deluxe edition on sale!

Yes, but I'd include the deluxe upgrade in the 10/20/30% sale deals (like Rise and Fall already is) to encourage people to buy it and I would never, ever include the individual DLC packs in any discount sale.

@FXS_Sarah send this over the marketing people and make this happen. You know you can get this done :D
 
... $32? That's cheaper than all the DLC alone, so you're getting a nice discount.

Originally the standard edition was priced 60 $ and the deluxe 80 $, so the value of the Deluxe difference was 1/3 (33% ) based on standard edition or 1/4 (25% ) based on deluxe. Now with the 60% sale (for standard / deluxe) the price of the DLCs is 133% / 100% relative to the prices of both editions. If you buy the deluxe edition which is the cheapest offer at the moment, you pay 133 % of the value of the standard edition. The price of the DLCs in relation to standard/deluxe edition now is 4 times higher than in 2016 at release.
 
Ok. I'm a Sales/Marketing Guy, so I did some math.

I'm going from "Retail Price", because that has to be the benchmark, and I'm going to use the US dollar prices because that's what my Steam store is in. Your mileage my vary.

The base game is $60.
The Deluxe Edition is $80.
Rise and Fall is $30 (mostly irrelevant for this discussion, but I included is as a reference point).
All of the DLC combined is $38

My first "marketing guy" point is that I do *not* want to charge $20 for the upgrade, since that says it was ok to just buy the base game at launch and gives no advantage for the people that bought the Deluxe game right out of the gate. So there has to be some kind of "late enrollment" penalty. But it also has to be cheaper than just buying it all separate, because I want to give some incentive to buying ALL of the DLC at once, because otherwise it may encourage people to buy ala carte and maybe skip the 1 or 2 packs they don't want (example: 2 of the packs are $9 while 4 of them are $5).

So I'm thinking $25 or $28, not more than $30 for the Deluxe Upgrade.

But wait, you're about to howl, that's not that great of a deal, because it's only $2 more to get the deluxe edition on sale!

Yes, but I'd include the deluxe upgrade in the 10/20/30% sale deals (like Rise and Fall already is) to encourage people to buy it and I would never, ever include the individual DLC packs in any discount sale.

@FXS_Sarah send this over the marketing people and make this happen. You know you can get this done :D

You should consider that Civ 6 started in 2016 and now it is 2018.

If you pick 25 $ for the Deluxe Upgrade and apply a 30% discount, you get 17,50 $ in sale which is a price which most players who bought the standard edition in 2016 will probably regard as a fair price.
 
You should consider that Civ 6 started in 2016 and now it is 2018.

If you pick 25 $ and apply a 30% discount, you get 17,50 $ in sale which is a price which most players who bought the standard edition in 2016 will probably regard as a fair price.
Which is why I went from the retail prices. If you look at the last two lines of my post, you'll notice I said that it SHOULD be included in the Steam sales but the individual DLC should not. I figured $30 with the 30% discount so $21, but anywhere from 18-21 would be reasonable.
 
Which is why I went from the retail prices. If you look at the last two lines of my post, you'll notice I said that it SHOULD be included in the Steam sales but the individual DLC should not. I figured $30 with the 30% discount so $21, but anywhere from 18-21 would be reasonable.

I took the 30% from your post and calculated to see the possible price in a sale ...
 
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