2K developer weekend on Steam - still no sale on DLCs

[Duuk]

See. Firaxis should hire me to do their pricing, marketing, and relations.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

... $32? That's cheaper than all the DLC alone, so you're getting a nice discount.

I'm not doing this until somebody else does it and confirms that it doesn't cause Steam to freak out and do a double back-flip into the recycle bin.

The first group seems to be eager to defend 2K's DLC-price-policy to prevent the 2nd group of gaining access to the DLCs at a reasonable price to justify their own early gamble buying the Deluxe Edition.

Assuming they bought at release such people saved a mere $5 compared to buying the base game with the 4 DLC items. Only after the second round of surprise DLC came out and got rolled into it did they save $19. They could put all 1st gen DLC on sale at 30% and first adopters of the DDE would still be ahead, if only by a few dollars. 15-20% off seems a reasonable sale price.

 

[bite]

See. Firaxis should hire me to do their pricing, marketing, and relations.

Firaxis has no control over pricing that is all 2K who can choose or not choose to put anything on sale as they please, they are under no obligation to ever put the DLC on sale

 

[PMac67]

Oh, and FYI, the Indonesia/Khmer DLC is currently 12% off at the WinGameStore. If you're absolutely set on finding a discount, don't just look at Steam.

Thanks for the link ! That's a really good deal ! Shame there's only one review who says 'It's OK but too expensive' but it's almost 50% of the price I can get it on steam so 'better value'

Ok. I'm a Sales/Marketing Guy, so I did some math.

I'm going from "Retail Price", because that has to be the benchmark, and I'm going to use the US dollar prices because that's what my Steam store is in. Your mileage my vary.

The base game is $60.
The Deluxe Edition is $80.
Rise and Fall is $30 (mostly irrelevant for this discussion, but I included is as a reference point).
All of the DLC combined is $38

Civ 6 has shipped almost 3 million copies globally on just the base game... That's a lot of revenue by your math ! add on all the DLCs and now the R&F expansion ! There's a lot of money flying around to make everybody happy.. Devs, publishers, Steam, whoever ! and that's fine... It's a business, somebody produces something, somebody else sells it, and some people buy it, or don't buy it... It's called economics

I respect people who pay for DLC and expansions and also people who don't because they think it's too expensive or not worthwhile or any other reason that I can't think of right now...

• Gordon Gekko: Greed, for lack of a better word, is good.

 

[nzcamel]

All that supposed hard work is a fraction of the hard work that goes into an expansion, and yet Rise and Fall with 9 leaders and 8 civs sold for $30. If it was priced as the DLC was, it would have been at least $40 for the 8 new Civs (with an extra price for the ninth leader).

Commensurate with pricing schemes for the original VI and expansion, DLC are overpriced.

No one denies making games is hard work, but that's not the issue. The issue is, pound for Poundmaker, are DLC price fairly compared to an expansion? Compared to the original? The answer is no.

Items that bring in more turn over (base games & expansions) can be sold at a lower profit margin than smaller items (DLC) that have a much smaller profit component attached. It matters not that the combined DLC doesn't have as much value to it as R&F does. Of course to begin with they're going to charge those of us who want it immediately a premium to have the larger turn over items, as they should. But later those same items are easier to discount than the smaller items. As has been noted here, they could bundle all the DLC together to achieve something similar. None of us will be surprised to see that happen eventually, but that is 2K's prerogative either way. I'm just stoked that Civ is a commodity that can hold itself at high prices for a while, as that indicates a good future in terms of Civ VII, VIII and beyond.

The community seems to be split into two parties :
- one group which directly bought the Deluxe Edition in a gamble and is now happy having paid less for the DLCs than in a separate purchase and
- another group which purchased the standard edition and is now faced with a dead end situation where the price for the 6 DLCs is exceeding even the price of the Deluxe Edition.

The first group seems to be eager to defend 2K's DLC-price-policy to prevent the 2nd group of gaining access to the DLCs at a reasonable price to justify their own early gamble buying the Deluxe Edition.

I couldn't quite justify deluxe at the time I preordered; so I have payed full retail price for everything the whole way through. I'm stoked with the value I have got, and I do not begrudge Firaxis/2K a single dollar. They went out of their way to help out deluxe edition customers who got caught out by changes in the exchange rate that were not their fault [2K's] in any way. That is going above and beyond!
We all have different priorities. Some who complain here prefer other games, and do not complain about paying top $ for the expansions/dlc that come with them. Some of us prefer to snowboard, or go to concerts, or have a blinged up car. Tis a hard life having so much choice

 

[Morningcalm]

Items that bring in more turn over (base games & expansions) can be sold at a lower profit margin than smaller items (DLC) that have a much smaller profit component attached. It matters not that the combined DLC doesn't have as much value to it as R&F does. Of course to begin with they're going to charge those of us who want it immediately a premium to have the larger turn over items, as they should. But later those same items are easier to discount than the smaller items. As has been noted here, they could bundle all the DLC together to achieve something similar. None of us will be surprised to see that happen eventually, but that is 2K's prerogative either way. I'm just stoked that Civ is a commodity that can hold itself at high prices for a while, as that indicates a good future in terms of Civ VII, VIII and beyond.

That should not mean the DLC price remains at $5 per civ. People have already noted in this thread wonkiness between the price for the Deluxe vis-a-vis the DLC piecemeal or together.

If you think high prices indicate a good future for Civ VII I suspect you have the wrong conception of what a good future for a (likely upcoming) computer game means.

The game's fanbase is already divided on whether VI's graphics are good or not, let alone DLC price or otherwise. There is no need to further divisions by suggesting that a higher game price is somehow good. Maybe it'll be good for 2K. But fans tend to get irked at high prices. Well, except the landed gentry among us, I suppose.

 

[Leathaface]

I got lucky and pre-ordered the Deluxe edition for €60 on GMG, but I feel like the DLC should definitely have been on sale by now. At least the earliest DLC.

 

[nzcamel]

That should not mean the DLC price remains at $5 per civ. People have already noted in this thread wonkiness between the price for the Deluxe vis-a-vis the DLC piecemeal or together.

If you think high prices indicate a good future for Civ VII I suspect you have the wrong conception of what a good future for a (likely upcoming) computer game means.

The game's fanbase is already divided on whether VI's graphics are good or not, let alone DLC price or otherwise. There is no need to further divisions by suggesting that a higher game price is somehow good. Maybe it'll be good for 2K. But fans tend to get irked at high prices. Well, except the landed gentry among us, I suppose.

Geeeeez Morningcalm. You know the graphics are fantastic. It's the visual style (not the graphics themselves) that you aren't fond of.

I am certainly not landed gentry For most of my life my family and I will have fallen into the lower middle class in New Zealand. To be fair I don't play many computer games as passionately as I do Civ. Most of my Steam purchases are done when a game's been out for years and is on sale; or it's not an expensive triple A title to begin with. Civ is the only constant exception to that rule. So for me it is a luxury item that I prioritise.

Wonkiness Do you lecture your local grocery store on how they choose to do their specials as well?
As others have pointed out here...for those of us in the West, a $5 DLC (give or take - $7ish here in NZ) is the price of a nice coffee! The coffee lasts me half an hour or so...the DLC I have till Kingdom come!

 

[Morningcalm]

Geeeeez Morningcalm. You know the graphics are fantastic. It's the visual style (not the graphics themselves) that you aren't fond of.

I am certainly not landed gentry For most of my life my family and I will have fallen into the lower middle class in New Zealand. To be fair I don't play many computer games as passionately as I do Civ. Most of my Steam purchases are done when a game's been out for years and is on sale; or it's not an expensive triple A title to begin with. Civ is the only constant exception to that rule. So for me it is a luxury item that I prioritise.

Wonkiness Do you lecture your local grocery store on how they choose to do their specials as well?
As others have pointed out here...for those of us in the West, a $5 DLC (give or take - $7ish here in NZ) is the price of a nice coffee! The coffee lasts me half an hour or so...the DLC I have till Kingdom come!

"Landed gentry" was mockery of the wealthy people who don't mind spending $30 on DLC packs. As if all that were just the price of coffee (not that I drink it anyway).

I like Civ VI's day night cycle and general liveliness, but the gloomy leader backgrounds and plastic style icons for units and buildings (which I include in the term "graphics") just don't do it for me. I think it was a waste of potential, though I understand some cartooniness.

I don't lecture my grocery store on prices--I just patronize ones with better value (sometimes that means higher prices with proportional better rates, ala Rise and Fall being better value than DLC packs).

I think people overestimate the value of a DLC pack--sure, you could replay the scenario or play as that Civ many times, but ultimately it's a fairly short lived boost, and too expensive for many people who otherwise want DLC. I have significant student debt so my disposable income is spent carefully, even if a $5 DLC pack wouldn't take an immense bite out of that. It's the bad value that rankles.

 

[nzcamel]

"Landed gentry" was mockery of the wealthy people who don't mind spending $30 on DLC packs. As if all that were just the price of coffee (not that I drink it anyway).

I like Civ VI's day night cycle and general liveliness, but the gloomy leader backgrounds and plastic style icons for units and buildings (which I include in the term "graphics") just don't do it for me. I think it was a waste of potential, though I understand some cartooniness.

I don't lecture my grocery store on prices--I just patronize ones with better value (sometimes that means higher prices with proportional better rates, ala Rise and Fall being better value than DLC packs).

I think people overestimate the value of a DLC pack--sure, you could replay the scenario or play as that Civ many times, but ultimately it's a fairly short lived boost, and too expensive for many people who otherwise want DLC. I have significant student debt so my disposable income is spent carefully, even if a $5 DLC pack wouldn't take an immense bite out of that. It's the bad value that rankles.

Who's spending $30 on a DLC pack!? No one in the first world.

So patronise a different game then, and stop with the whinging over something that's fair and reasonable.

 

[Morningcalm]

Who's spending $30 on a DLC pack!? No one in the first world.

So patronise a different game then, and stop with the whinging over something that's fair and reasonable.

DLC packs. Plural. It was right there in my post.

The disagreement over whether the pricing is fair and reasonable is the whole point of this thread. I don't think it's "whinging", if anything it's the camp who sees the prices as good value that is whinging about people who criticize the prices.

 

[nzcamel]

"Landed gentry" was mockery of the wealthy people who don't mind spending $30 on DLC packs.

DLC packs. Plural. It was right there in my post.

The disagreement over whether the pricing is fair and reasonable is the whole point of this thread. I don't think it's "whinging", if anything it's the camp who sees the prices as good value that is whinging about people who criticize the prices.

The way you phrase it is manipulative then. You can spend as low as $10 on "DLC packs" [plural].

It is a fair price just as the retail price for vanilla and R&F was. The thread topic is questioning the lack of the DLC's going on sale, which isn't the same as saying the price isn't fair.

 

[GoatsHeadSoup]

"Landed gentry" was mockery of the wealthy people who don't mind spending $30 on DLC packs. As if all that were just the price of coffee (not that I drink it anyway).

I like Civ VI's day night cycle and general liveliness, but the gloomy leader backgrounds and plastic style icons for units and buildings (which I include in the term "graphics") just don't do it for me. I think it was a waste of potential, though I understand some cartooniness.

I don't lecture my grocery store on prices--I just patronize ones with better value (sometimes that means higher prices with proportional better rates, ala Rise and Fall being better value than DLC packs).

I think people overestimate the value of a DLC pack--sure, you could replay the scenario or play as that Civ many times, but ultimately it's a fairly short lived boost, and too expensive for many people who otherwise want DLC. I have significant student debt so my disposable income is spent carefully, even if a $5 DLC pack wouldn't take an immense bite out of that. It's the bad value that rankles.

The best solution is just to be a good consumer and not purchase what you think is overpriced. I will not buy any of these leader DLCs both because I think the price is too high, and because I don't want to see more leader DLCs, I want to see gameplay changing DLC.

 

[Basekry]

I can't afford too much.I only buy what I need.

 

[kaspergm]

The thread topic is questioning the lack of the DLC's going on sale, which isn't the same as saying the price isn't fair.

Yes, I would like to add that I don't think the price of the DLC is particularly unfair. I would buy the DLC at face value if I really liked their content - as in fact I did with the Vietnam/Khmer pack.

My objection to the whole thing stems from the fact that I feel left out in the cold by their current price policy, in spite of the fact that I would call myself a faithful customer. I bought all Civ4 and Civ5 stuff, and I preordered Civ6 (and RnF) at face value without a moment of hesitation. I did not preorder the deluxe edition, because I estimated - correctly - that the 20 € surplus price would not be a particularly good bargain, because the description of the DLCs back then hinted that there would be something like the Viking pack included which I would value lower than it's 5€ share of the price. If they had stuck to the original 4 DLC packs, I would not have had objections. But the fact that they changed the plan to give an additional two DLCs for free to those who bought the DE with no way of "upgrading" for those of us who didn't makes me frustrated, and the fact that they continue to offer the DE at heavy discount to newcomers and still refuse to give me any sort of equal access to the DLCs makes me, frankly, pissed off.

 

[nzcamel]

But the fact that they changed the plan to give an additional two DLCs for free to those who bought the DE with no way of "upgrading" for those of us who didn't makes me frustrated, and the fact that they continue to offer the DE at heavy discount to newcomers and still refuse to give me any sort of equal access to the DLCs makes me, frankly, pissed off.

I don't think they should have added those two extra DLC to the DE for the reason that it would annoy people who didn't get the DE. But it wasn't done due to a lack of quality in the DE. It was done because of the exchange rate issues. And I can't help but wonder if them trying to get money back from that loss is also keeping the DLC's at full price. Does the discounted DE actually include the Khmer/Numibia DLC? It really shouldn't.

 

[historix69]

I have no problem with the DE including the Khmer/Numibia DLCs.

At the moment the DE is down at 32 $/Euro while the DLCs alone still sum up to 38 $/Euro. For players who bought the standard version of Civ6 early, an official way to upgrade to DE at a rational price (compared with all the Civ6 sales around) is still missing. So standard players now recognize that buying the standard version early was not the best choice and they had better waited a few months for the DLCs to appear and be evaluated and the DE to drop in price. This situation is uncomfortable and will affect future purchase decisions. (Civ 6 is not alone, there are other games, too, where the Season Pass for a long time was the same price as the DE on sale.)

The lesson from Civ6 is : Buy standard edition and there will be no discount for additional content for you in the next years while standard version and DE will massively drop in price. So only buy standard if you do not want a complete game or if you are willing to pay full price for every DLC or wait some more years for a general drop in prices. Obviously the price policy is intended to push more players into directly buying the DE.

 

[UWHabs]

I don't think they should have added those two extra DLC to the DE for the reason that it would annoy people who didn't get the DE. But it wasn't done due to a lack of quality in the DE. It was done because of the exchange rate issues. And I can't help but wonder if them trying to get money back from that loss is also keeping the DLC's at full price. Does the discounted DE actually include the Khmer/Numibia DLC? It really shouldn't.

The exchange rate was the biggest reason, yes. But even in areas without the exchange rate issues, it still only amounted to like a 4$ discount for those who got the DD edition, so I think they probably did feel a little guilty about it not really being much of a deal.

I guess the main argument I have - that is totally unsubstantiated, mind you - is that I can't see them selling a ton of copies at full price of the DLC right now, especially the early ones. Like, it seems to me they would make more money by putting the DLC on sale for, say, half off right now, than they would by keeping it at full price. It's been long enough that those that bought them earlier for full price, or those that got them for free in the DD edition aren't feeling ripped off by the sale, so it seems that by now they'd at least have had some sort of sale on them.

 

[historix69]

The exchange rate was the biggest reason, yes.

As far as I know, Civ 6 prices in Euro are the same as prices in $ by numbers but not by value, since 1 Euro = ca. 1,25 $. If one did spend about 100 Euro for a complete Civ 6 so far, this equals to ca 125 $.
If you bought standard (60 Euro), all DLCs (38 Euro) and R&F (30 Euro) at full price, this sums up to 128 Euro or ca. 160 $.

So how are exchange rates for other countries like GB, Canada, Australia, NZ, ... affecting the price for Civ 6 when expressed in $?

 

[UWHabs]

As far as I know, Civ 6 prices in Euro are the same as prices in $ by numbers but not by value, since 1 Euro = ca. 1,25 $. If one did spend about 100 Euro for a complete Civ 6 so far, this equals to ca 125 $.
So how are exchange rates for other countries like GB, Canada, Australia, NZ, ... affecting the price for Civ 6 when expressed in $?

The issue was that Steam does some weird exchange rate stuff. So I think it was Singapore, and maybe Brazil too and others, where because the DD price was set in the summer and the DLC prices set months later, they updated their exchange prices, and it ended up being cheaper to buy the DLC separately than had you bought the deluxe edition before shipping. Each country gets a different exchange rate - you can see on https://steamdb.info/app/289070/ . So in Ukraine, the base game is only 8$ US, whereas in Norway it's 30$. Khmer/Indonesia is 4.58US if you buy it in China, but over 20$ if you wanted to buy it in the UAE.