$350,000/Year Not Enough

[gozpel]

Sometimes luck hits a person, it's directed.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'm sure someone as smart as you should know that the things you mentioned aren't the only indicators of damage caused. What it does is further polarize the people against each other. This prevents meaningful dialog in our society so none of the problems ever really get fixed.

Given some of the things you have posted on this site, I'm sure you already knew everything I just said. I'm starting to think you are just arguing with me for the sake of arguing.

No, I just honestly don't see why this is significant. Show me a strike, show me mass-layoffs, show me industrial sabotage, those I would regard as a significant development in class relations; this is just some guy being stupid, and other people going "gee, how stupid".

 

[JollyRoger]

Times are tough. People don't realize the stress of downgrading from being a Sugar Daddy to private university coeds to being a Sugar Daddy to state school coeds.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I love the complaint that liberals use generalisations based on a few cases.

Love it.

 

[Commodore]

No, I just honestly don't see why this is significant. Show me a strike, show me mass-layoffs, show me industrial sabotage, those I would regard as a significant development in class relations; this is just some guy being stupid, and other people going "gee, how stupid".

Of course this is a minor event, but there have been a lot of minor events like this since the recession began. A lot of minor events can add up over time and lead to the major events you speak of.

 

[Traitorfish]

Of course this is a minor event, but there have been a lot of minor events like this since the recession began. A lot of minor events can add up over time and lead to the major events you speak of.

You think that workers take strike action because they read a lot of stories like this, and not because of tangible conflicts with their employers?

 

[Commodore]

You think that workers take strike action because they read a lot of stories like this, and not because of tangible conflicts with their employers?

Of course not. There are many factors that push someone to such action. What I'm saying is that these stories sure don't help foster good relations between the classes.

 

[Crezth]

Of course not. There are many factors that push someone to such action. What I'm saying is that these stories sure don't help foster good relations between the classes.

The bad relations will be there whether they're "fostered" or not. It's inherent in the system.

 

[Traitorfish]

Of course not. There are many factors that push someone to such action. What I'm saying is that these stories sure don't help foster good relations between the classes.

Is that the purpose of journalism, to act as a social stabiliser?

 

[Commodore]

Is that the purpose of journalism, to act as a social stabiliser?

No, the purpose of journalism is to report events to the publicso they stay informed. I was merely commenting on the social effects of reporting those events.

And before you ask it, no I do not think the news shouldn't report stories that could potentially have a negative impact on society. What I'm saying is that the people who create the events that journalists report on need to act more responsibly.

 

[Traitorfish]

No, the purpose of journalism is to report events to the publicso they stay informed. I was merely commenting on the social effects of reporting those events.

And before you ask it, no I do not think the news shouldn't report stories that could potentially have a negative impact on society. What I'm saying is that the people who create the events that journalists report on need to act more responsibly.

So you think that social tensions can be resolved if people just straighten up and fly right? You don't think that, for example, some degree of tension between employers and employees are inherent in the wage system itself, insofar as both parties are trying to fulfil "unlimited wants" with the "limited means" represented by the gross income of the company?

 

[Commodore]

So you think that social tensions can be resolved if people just straighten up and fly right? You don't think that, for example, some degree of tension between employers and employees are inherent in the wage system itself, insofar as both parties are trying to fulfil "unlimited wants" with the "limited means" represented by the gross income of the company?

Like I already said, I recognize many factors contribute to the tension that exisits between social classes. However, people saying irresponsible things in public doesn't help and only furthers the tension between the classes.

 

[Traitorfish]

Like I already said, I recognize many factors contribute to the tension that exisits between social classes. However, people saying irresponsible things in public doesn't help and only furthers the tension between the classes.

And, again, I have to wonder why you think something as trifling as this would contribute to that in any meaningful way, even as an aggregate of many such incidences. You offer no mechanism, just cryptic references to a "negative impact", whatever that means.

 

[Commodore]

And, again, I have to wonder why you think something as trifling as this would contribute to that in any meaningful way, even as an aggregate of many such incidences. You offer no mechanism, just cryptic references to a "negative impact", whatever that means.

Well that's because the negative impact cannot really be quantified. I can admit that everything I've written in this thread is just my view on the matter. And do you seriously need the phrase "negative impact" defined for you?

 

[Traitorfish]

Well that's because the negative impact cannot really be quantified. I can admit that everything I've written in this thread is just my view on the matter.

I'm not asking for quantification, I'm asking for the workings of your claim that "A therefore B". Without some mechanism linking the two, it's a bit too gnomish to be taken seriously.

And do you seriously need the phrase "negative impact" defined for you?

I need to know what you mean by it, yes. It's not self-evident, and unless you're elaborate, we don't have any reason to believe that it's a valid interpretation. If I just say "this sandwich is good", you're in no position to infer anything about the sandwich other than my opinion of it, because I have not explained to you what I mean by "good".

 

[Commodore]

I'm not asking for quantification, I'm asking for the workings of your claim that "A therefore B". Without some mechanism linking the two, it's a bit too gnomish to be taken seriously.


I need to know what you mean by it, yes. It's not self-evident, and unless you're elaborate, we don't have any reason to believe that it's a valid interpretation. If I just say "this sandwich is good", you're in no position to infer anything about the sandwich other than my opinion of it, because I have not explained to you what I mean by "good".

Wow, now I really think you are being willfully ignorant. However, I will humor you anyway.

The way stories like this have a negative impact is that they reinforce sterotypes of a particular group of people based on the idiotic ravings of an individual. If you really need an explaination of how sterotypes have a negative impact on society, then perhaps you're not as educated as I thought you were.

I'm also not going to define negative impact for you. You're a big boy and you know what these things mean. Also your sandwich analogy isn't very good since if you say a sandwich is good, that's all I need to know to understand what you mean by good without demanding you explain it.

In short, don't be an idiot, you know what I'm trying to say so quit acting like you don't.

 

[Traitorfish]

Wow, now I really think you are being willfully ignorant. However, I will humor you anyway.

The way stories like this have a negative impact is that they reinforce sterotypes of a particular group of people based on the idiotic ravings of an individual. If you really need an explaination of how sterotypes have a negative impact on society, then perhaps you're not as educated as I thought you were.

...That's it? That's the big deal? Stereotypes? That's what worries you? Not actual, tangible incidents of social conflict, not strikes or occupations, not lockouts or union-busting layoffs, not substantial episodes of economic or social disruption of any sort, just people being kinda dickish and unreasonable on a petty, day-to-day basis?

No offence meant, but that is a very trivial thing to get your bollocks in a twist about.

I'm also not going to define negative impact for you. You're a big boy and you know what these things mean. Also your sandwich analogy isn't very good since if you say a sandwich is good, that's all I need to know to understand what you mean by good without demanding you explain it.

In short, don't be an idiot, you know what I'm trying to say so quit acting like you don't.

Ok, I'll take that at face value: "negative impact" means that it impedes the formation of the working class into a revolutionary class-for-itself capable of abolishing capitalist social relations. Because that, laddy, is my "good sandwhich".

 

[mrt144]

Another thread about those obnoxious rich people, just what CFC needs.

Lets make threads every time someone poor says something obnoxious/offensive, and draw general conclusions about all poor people.

Too many poor people with relatable problems.

 

[Commodore]

...That's it? That's the big deal? Stereotypes? That's what worries you? Not actual, tangible incidents of social conflict, not strikes or occupations, not lockouts or union-busting layoffs, not substantial episodes of economic or social disruption of any sort, just people being kinda dickish and unreasonable on a petty, day-to-day basis?

No offence meant, but that is a very trivial thing to get your bollocks in a twist about.

Yeah the other stuff worries me, but fighting sterotypes is something that I believe can prevent a lot of those things. The rich look down on the poor because of the sterotype that all poor people are leeches who just want something for nothing. This is, I believe, a significant contributor to the resistence they put up to any attempts to unionize workers or create social saftey nets. Poor people believe rich people are a bunch of overpaid snobs who don't deserve what they have and have no idea what real struggle is.

Not to sound like Yoda or anything, but sterotypes lead to misunderstanding and misunderstanding leads to conflict. Sterotypes have a much bigger impact than you give them credit for. They lead to more than just people being dickish towards each other. Sterotypes can define a person's entire mindset towards a particular group of people. That to me is anything but trivial.

 

[Traitorfish]

Yeah the other stuff worries me, but fighting sterotypes is something that I believe can prevent a lot of those things. The rich look down on the poor because of the sterotype that all poor people are leeches who just want something for nothing. This is, I believe, a significant contributor to the resistence they put up to any attempts to unionize workers or create social saftey nets. Poor people believe rich people are a bunch of overpaid snobs who don't deserve what they have and have no idea what real struggle is.

Not to sound like Yoda or anything, but sterotypes lead to misunderstanding and misunderstanding leads to conflict. Sterotypes have a much bigger impact than you give them credit for. They lead to more than just people being dickish towards each other. Sterotypes can define a person's entire mindset towards a particular group of people. That to me is anything but trivial.

So, again, you don't think that economic conflict is inherent in the wage system, in the attempt by two parties to extract the highest return from a finite source of income, but is just a maliciousness bred by a lack of mutual empathy? That if people just straighten up and fly right, then we wouldn't see social conflict emerging between different social classes, and that everyone would simply know their place and be happy with it?