A Brave New World Part 2

[tuxedohamm]

If no one invades Georgia, then at no point will there be French troops in North America. However, if Georgia is invaded, won't there be a bigger problem than worrying over whether France appears or not?

 

[Luckymoose]

If no one invades Georgia, then at no point will there be French troops in North America. However, if Georgia is invaded, won't there be a bigger problem than worrying over whether France appears or not?

If anyone invades Georgia it will make my tally 6-0.

 

[germanicus12]

It is not about whether or not Georgia is invaded, it is the fact that Georgia is giving France the right to put troops on North American soil even if France says they won't. They are still obliged to follow the Treaty of Rome and forming an Defensive Alliance violates that regardless of whether France will or will not send troops should Georgia be invaded.

Georgia is free to create that with Italy or any other European nation, but not France.

 

[Milarqui]

Orders sent.

 

[Warman17]

A slip of the tongue, or has that slip a Freudian undertone? It seems to us that the vindictive neighbors of Georgia wish to decide HER foreign policy for her, using the great paper masquerade of the Treaty of Rome to enforce their brand of a unified front. However, this is clearly not so unified - all of North America, indeed? Even the Communists? What of New England, who holds not the same position? Will you all kowtow to Virginia?

But, no, we are not naive. It is exerting your influence over Georgia, influence which has been rebuffed in the past. You feel threatened that anything could challenge your absolute might so call upon incomplete resolutions to trumpet your cause. It is Georgia's choice, and Georgia's alone, what troops may be allowed to set foot on her soil. They shall not be French because France has agreed it shall not send troops to America, but they may be Portuguese and Italian.

As for the purpose of such a pact? Why, there is more than one way to wage a war. We may not meet on the battlefield but let's just say a trade ship of a belligerent power may find itself not at ease in international waters. You understand.

We won't back down from this. Your objection to a defensive pact, a pact defensive in nature, is petty and poorly supported. Not even the Treaty of Rome is on your side - the formation of a pact is not the formation of an empire, nor is it the placing of French troops in American soil. You have no legal right here.

ooc: freudi-who-si-what-si?

 

[Adrogans]

OOC: @JTK FYI - The edit was not aimed at Virginia, you have not, Deseret has insinuated as much about Italy. I should have made that more clear apologies.

 

[Crezth]

ooc: freudi-who-si-what-si?

OOC:
If we take it for granted that Germany is largely unaffected, Freud came and went as he did ITL.

IC-

It is not about whether or not Georgia is invaded, it is the fact that Georgia is giving France the right to put troops on North American soil even if France says they won't. They are still obliged to follow the Treaty of Rome and forming an Defensive Alliance violates that regardless of whether France will or will not send troops should Georgia be invaded.

Georgia is free to create that with Italy or any other European nation, but not France.

So let me see if I have you straight. Because of a treaty binding France, it is Georgia's options that are limited? Do I understand you correctly? Nowhere in our agreement does it say "French troops will come to Georgian soil." It details a defensive pact. Defensive pact. If war is declared on Georgia, France will declare war on the belligerent parties. How is this a difficult concept? Nevermind, you're a heathen lot, it is obvious to us how it can be difficult for you.

Georgia's sovereignty is at stake here, nobody else's. It is the right of Georgia and Georgia only to determine policy for Georgia, NOT Deseret or Virginia or Louisiana or whomever. If you contest Georgia's legitimacy and right to govern the Georgian people - well, then we have a problem, don't we?

 

[Lord_Iggy]

To: Germany
From: Métis Republic

Greetings, Kaiser Wilhelm. I am François Cloutier, leader of your friends and trading partners, the Métis Republic. Recent events involving the Danish flu, continued economic failure, and the worrying rise of opposition movements within my country has placed a great deal of pressure upon my government. If you could send some military forces, or offer some form of support to my government to get through this difficult and lean time, the aid would be greatly appreciated.

Yours truly,

François Cloutier

 

[Cynovolans]

Orders sent.

 

[Jason The King]

So let me see if I have you straight. Because of a treaty binding France, it is Georgia's options that are limited? Do I understand you correctly? Nowhere in our agreement does it say "French troops will come to Georgian soil." It details a defensive pact. Defensive pact. If war is declared on Georgia, France will declare war on the belligerent parties. How is this a difficult concept? Nevermind, you're a heathen lot, it is obvious to us how it can be difficult for you.

It is not difficult for us to understand. If the French would just for a second listen to our arguments instead of spouting your own conceited rhetoric, we have made our point clear and simple.

Georgia's sovereignty is at stake here, nobody else's. It is the right of Georgia and Georgia only to determine policy for Georgia, NOT Deseret or Virginia or Louisiana or whomever. If you contest Georgia's legitimacy and right to govern the Georgian people - well, then we have a problem, don't we?

Have the French forgotten the art of diplomacy? There are two sides of a defensive pact. Though I guess I'm not surprised at the incompetence of Paris, as half of it was burnt to the ground.

 

[Adrogans]

You keep arguing about a defensive pact:

1 - if you leave Georgia alone then it never comes into play in the first place meaning no France in North America

2 - The AXIS has already stated that France will not send troops to aid Georgia if they are attacked. This clause in the Alliance was added due to the Treaty of Rome due to the clause you keep citing.

So again if you would actually look at the treaty and look at what the alliance has been designed for you are arguing a non-issue. Time to move on.

EDIT - was notified of missing a certain word, has been corrected.

 

[Crezth]

It is not difficult for us to understand. If the French would just for a second listen to our arguments instead of spouting your own conceited rhetoric, we have made our point clear and simple.

Forgive us, but it seems as if you and the fine folk of Deseret have stated, countless times, differing and even conflicting opinions. Where once you stated you wanted not to interfere with Georgia's conducting of its own policy, Deseret stated outright that Georgia must abide by the Treaty being forced on them and have policy guided by its neighbors. They said, and we quote: "It is not about whether or not Georgia is invaded, it is the fact that Georgia is giving France the right to put troops on North American soil even if France says they won't. They are still obliged to follow the Treaty of Rome and forming an Defensive Alliance violates that regardless of whether France will or will not send troops should Georgia be invaded." So, then, Georgia has no sovereignty, or doesn't it? For a united front you lot can't agree on anything.

Have the French forgotten the art of diplomacy? There are two sides of a defensive pact. Though I guess I'm not surprised at the incompetence of Paris, as half of it was burnt to the ground.

But of course, because the competence of Virginia is so self-evident. Need we remind the most illustrious King of the Country of Hill-people that, were it not for France almighty, Virginia would not exist today? Not once, but twice we have safeguarded the independence of North America. It hurts that we should be cast aside after our service, but alas, that is the way of the world.

I digress, however. There are, indeed, two sides to a defensive pact, but a contract such as this wherein both sides give an equal share is hardly a mongering of influence, is it not? If France is attacked, Georgia lacks many of the facilities required to aid her in the same way France could aid Georgia. This asymmetry should be evidence enough of the benign nature of our intentions.

 

[Luckymoose]

You keep arguing about a defensive pact:

1 - if you leave Georgia alone then it never comes into play in the first place meaning no France in North America

2 - The AXIS has already stated they will not send troops to aid Georgia if they are attacked. This clause in the Alliance was added due to the Treaty of Rome due to the clause you keep citing.

So again if you would actually look at the treaty and look at what the alliance has been designed for you are arguing a non-issue. Time to move on.

Georgia does not recognized the Treaty of Rome and as such French troops are welcome on Georgian soil.

 

[germanicus12]

Deseret does not force Georgia to follow the Treaty of Rome, that paragraph is directed at France, concerning French troops, not Georgian sovereignty or choices. Georgia is free to make her own decisions, but it is France who must follow the Treaty that they signed, the Treaty of Rome. Apparently France did not read my message as closely as they should have...

And the above reply outlines just what Georgia wants out of this deal, they are openly accepting French troops on North American soil. A very clear message if you ask me.

 

[Crezth]

Deseret does not force Georgia to follow the Treaty of Rome, that paragraph is directed at France, concerning French troops, not Georgian sovereignty or choices. Georgia is free to make her own decisions, but it is France who must follow the Treaty that they signed, the Treaty of Rome. Apparently France did not read my message as closely as they should have...

And the above reply outlines just what Georgia wants out of this deal, they are openly accepting French troops on North American soil. A very clear message if you ask me.

Au contraire, whatever you meant out of that message was harshly overshadowed by what you said. You said, in no uncertain terms, that it was Georgian policy that must be altered.

Let's assume, however, that in a bout of Franglish the ambassador meant to castigate the French. This would have been a moot point because France is not sending troops to Georgia.

Allow me to outline this for you:

If you allow Georgia her sovereignty, Georgia may sign treaties and deals with whomever she pleases. It is her rights and she is under no legal obligations dictating elsewise.

So, then, the Treaty of Rome. Well, nowhere in the treaty does it say France may not sign deals with other nations of the world. Furthermore, it makes no distinction between pacts defensive, economic, or research-based, or any of the aforementioned. The widely accepted interpretation of this treaty is that France may not send troops to American soil. We will abide by this, and the nebulous nature of the defensive pact makes it untargetable by the Treaty.

If you do so oppose it, however, how about we rename the defensive pact? How about the "pact of mutual interests in the preservation of secured or denunciated territories wherein member parties agree that the interest of the one is the interest of the whole and to act in parallel to the aggressor parties as suits the situation and in the manner of their choosing." I see no "French troops coming to America" in there.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Well it be two hours until the deadline arrives. We're missing some important orders, but not enough to make me dramatically postpone the update. If by noon these orders havent arrived, we'll postpone things by a couple hours, but that'll be it.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Well since we're still missing a few important sets of orders, and I'm in the middle of a fun quest, I'll hold back the update 3 more hours.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Starting update now. Certainly not as eventful as the past update, but still some fun stuff to look forward to.

 

[Jason The King]

Sending orders!

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Taking a brief break to run a couple of errands, if you're running late on orders feel free to send them in, though I reserve the right to ignore stuff which interferes with what I've already done.