A fun game of Kublai!

[Fippy]

I think there's little point in postponing the golden age here more than 1t.
Kara can grow now and then switch on full commerce, Free Reli adds a little boost too and can be dropped again at golden age end.
Your Paci costs are high cos of units.

Can pick up Corp and RP from Peter, Commies from Willy (with some gold, oh well) and then have a chance for Steam Power with Giggles next turn.
Then you already need full research for AL imo, so golden age next turn works well.

Not sure how much gold Willy wants for Commies after the Peter trade, but Justi has some for MS if needed. Or maybe begging is enuf?
Need some luck with Giggles still not having Steel and MS next turn, but worth trying imo.
If all goes well you can prolly reach AL within your golden age. Rifling can be traded for later, given with AL.

 

[krikav]

@Fippy

Spoiler :

I like that rushed approach! I will make a try for it.
If it doesn't pan out good, I can somewhat easily get back on the more conservative approach I intended by getting two GPersons out.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler Trade and Pray :

I pay the dutch all gold to join the socialist paradise.

But Peter got very stingy.
Noone was willing to give me any cash (You press us too hard), perhaps I already asked too much of them? Haven't known them that many turns yet and I share no borders which tripples the amount you can beg.

So I have to sell MS to Justinian.

And that too, only barely gives me enough cash.

I figure that Ragnar is the only one who would be willing to give Gilga Steel or MS.

So I sell him econ/lib for 10g and ask him pretty pretty please to not give Gilga Steel/MS.

But inbetween turns, Ragnar fancies getting his hands on divine right....
Now I'm thinking that perhaps I could have done it differently somehow, not spreading MS that much.
I could have been content with only getting say.. RP from someone last turn, to keep tighter monopoly on the techs, and tried to trade for Communism/Corporation/Steampower this turn.
Or perhaps skipped at least corporations last turn. If I could have gotten steampower instead of corporations I would have been ahead alot.

I'm almost certain that I won't be able to get to AL in sensible time here, so I won't go into GA right away, must at least grow cities abit more first.
I think I'll sell ragnar RP for 20g right away, it's concievable that he will get rifling/steampower/biology/physics for me.
I'll also rush through steampower and see if I can get part of it from Gilga for steel, but if that too fails I'll just stack up cash abit or possibly just fall back to the plan of stealing everything.

 

[Nick723]

Checked your save @Nick723

Spoiler :

Turfans location does look abit off, did you settle there for passive fogbusting purposes? I see you did with warriors only, strong!

I would probably prefer stagnating on a settler here, rather than to throw away 2F/turn.
View attachment 583958
I think your upkeep could be optimized, if this has been going on a while it could have saved you a turn or two.
View attachment 583959
These two southern guys, they can shift to the west, and then the warrior is inside culture.
View attachment 583960
Like this. (Or the scout one more North, so he reaches up there too.
View attachment 583961
Abit too much spread out up here too, not 100% sure about configuration, but remember that the barbs in the city do fogbust too.
View attachment 583962
And lastly, this guy here is probably not needed anymore, you just need to protect the clam, not prevent all galleys from spawning. Can take care of them later on after you have squeezed through the optics bottleneck.
View attachment 583963

In essence, keep an watchfull eye on everything that happends, like culture borders popping, barb cities spawning (or just wandering barbs or galleys themselves) to see if there is things that can be optimized.
I had a rather strict "1 guy out, 1 guy in" policy for busters outside of culture. And when a worker went out to pre-road, the buster in that region had to go inside and wait.

Thanks for taking the time to look! All good tips, thanks! Indeed, I somewhat neglected unit costs / supply costs once I had the island safe, but it all adds up.

Can't really remember the thinking behind Turfan's location to be honest. Indeed, I think I knew that I wanted to go south along the river for one of my other cities, and felt that it would help more get the barbs under control.

 

[Nick723]

Continued to Astro...

Spoiler :

With some of Krikav's tips, was able to get to Optics in 5. Chopped one caravel as planned, and then needed 2 turns of max gold to upgrade the other.

Also failed on the scout front. I should have built a scout earlier (or relieved my scout from fogbusting duty) but by the time I thought to do it, it was too late. Tried to put a warrior on the caravel...but then you can't put warriors on caravels... This I think was actually quite a costly mistake as you'll see as I still haven't met all AI.

1st AI I met was Hannibal, the Peter, the Justinian. Sadly though these were all from the boat without a scientist on, and so I met them a little slower than I could have.

Hannibal lacked Optics, Peter lacked Machinery. In hindsight, I should have traded Machinery away straight away as it was obvious he would get it soon (he got it immediately turn after). Normally I like to meet all the AI before trading but here I traded Optics to Hannibal and Peter to get Alphabet, Maths and Calendar (plus some other filler): I really didn't want to have to tech any of these on the way to Astro. That's all I'll get for Optics, could have been worse but I still don't have Monarchy.

Three turns of self teching were needed to get to Astro, again should have perhaps realised this and I could have got there a bit sooner.

Situation at Astro

Spoiler :

Tough set of AIs so far! Only good news is Hannibal is at war with Justinian. Hopefully I can pick up Hinduism overseas.

Pausing now for advice. My thoughts were to wait until I've met the other AI for tech trades, whilst self teching monarchy. Normally I like to get to at least things like Guilds, Engineering for Astro, hopefully we can catch up a bit here.

Next step would be to settle the rest of my island. not sure whether it is worth making a push for the other islands or prepping for an attack?

Resources: I can't believe there are no happy resources on offer! I mean, seriously? What on earth do I do now, run the culture slider?!

 

[Fippy]

Bad luck Krikav, if i'm honest i would say this game has sailed now
Which is no shame at all, i have rarely seen such an epic pain of continent that you are facing here.
+ let's be honest your own continent was bad as well.

(things seem different in your game Nick)

 

[krikav]

@Fippy I'll see what I can do with abit of a buildup, one abit later GA and then techstealing to parity. I think it will be posible to get some progress after that, but with at least 3 strong competitors (Peter, Gilga & Justinian) I suspect it will be somewhat futilie.

 

[krikav]

@Nick723

Spoiler :

I suspect you have not checked my later checkpoints yet, so I'll try to give feedback without giving away info, but thats probably hard.
Nice play and early astro given a dire situation.

I do usually trade away compass/machinery in an eyeblink if I can still get something for it when I meet the AIs, but I almost always wait until I have found at least two, to judge how the general situation is.
If you find one, that can be an outliner that is either forward or backwards, but if you know two, you got a much better picture of the overall situation.

So in your case, I would have given machinery away straight away.
I think that you did correct in focusing on math/alpha/calendar, those are the essentials, if you lack those when you have your two astro-scientists... Argh, it's such a pain.

Self teching monarchy is annoying but no big deal now once you have astro traderoutes.
Astro is not something that should be given away without much consideration, especially the first trade. Once that goes you should probably have some plan for followup trades.
In a situation as the one you are facing, I would want to know what the hidden AIs look like. Perhaps there is a Tokugawa out there somehwere that you can get some small stuff from like monarchy/construction/CoL that would open up trades for bigger fish like CS, Engineering, Philosophy and Feud.


Regarding the happines/resource situation, well.. It completely sucks. I have seldom seen anything like it.
Sometimes you are faced with the annoying problem having to trade away your health to gain happines or something, but here it's just bad.
They won't give you much, and they want nothing of yours.
Keep searching and pray.
If nothing shows up from the other AIs, it's probably just to take care and not hook up iron, and build some warriors for monarchy happines (or whip units if going for a early attack).
I did consider running a 20% culture slider with theatres/colosseums to gain a solid +6 happines from that, it beats the crap out of having to pay the AIs gold for resources, but it's not sure that it is worth it. (Fippy adviced me against it too).
Still, the colosseums are only 40 hammers, and a 2pop whip of those gives nice overflow to utilize for something else and that gives you at least one extra happines.

I'm abit further down the line in the game, and I felt a bit extra motivated to go for espionage due to the +2 happines from barracks in nationhood.
But I'm abit in terra incognita here myself. Not used to this situation.

*EDIT*
Forgot to mention, the AI splits and balance seem abit more favourable in your game. I hope it stays that way!

*/EDIT*

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T199 :

With no accelerated path toward AL available anymore, I did some thinking and decided to fall back to my intuitive plan.
Burocracy yields me 38 commerce and 12 hammers...

But burocracy also cost me 17gpt compared to nationhood, and I dearly need the +2 happines from barracks. And I think that my best shot at getting techs is by way of thievery, so the +25% espionage is nice.
Also, I for sure want to do some drafting, drafting with agg leaders while in theocracy gives you nice rifles with 2 xp which promoted to pinch or something other yummy can contribute nicely.

So I gently whip that bank while enjoying a +50% bonus for the population whipped away.

Then I enter a 2 turn revolt, adopting nationhood for the reasons I mentioned, and state property as I just got communism and I also go into organized religion because thats my only chance to get religious spread happening, and I will benefit alot from the +25% for buildings too.

T175 Gilga begs for Steel, he can take a hike.
T176 Peter asks me to become a buddah fan, but I decline.
T178 Hannibal too asks me to become a buddhist! No end of the demands...
Somewhere here Ragnar and Willy make peace, and Peter starts to plot. I move my scout up and notice that his SOD is stationed close to justinian and don't think much more about that.

Then, T182 Ragnar impresses!
I give him both for rifling and tell him to adopt Nationhood because it's the best and anarchy for the AIs is always nice.

I put a full turn into steampower and next turn I get this deal:

I enjoy the benefit of better windmills, and my riverside cities start their levees and I trade away coal for some health resources with Peter, who I now note is lacking both coal and oil. Wonder if I can exploit that somehow?
I sell rifling to Gilgamesh for 300g, and cross my fingers that he goes on and tech something yummy for me to steal.

I try to whip out globe theatre in Turfan, I have whipped some jails and capital and double-fish spot have gotten intelligence agencies too. Some weak cities will have to make do without forge, but I give suitable ones a half-price drydock instead.
Theatre+Colosseum+Barracks is standard for all cities.
I build missionaries and spread around Hindu, and I have also started to build spies and started to stack them up in a future gift city.
Just a few turns ago, I had gotten up the +% espionage buildings I planned and start the 100% EP slider.
When I get tech visiblity on Gilga, I see to my horror that he is going for mass media.
T192 I feel ready to run a GA, only civic I swap is OR -> Theocracy so I can gently start to do drafting.
I try to spread out the drafting thin, so that all cities have their cooldown ticking.

After Mass media, Gilgamesh finally goes for something useful!

T197 and T198 about 1200g in failgold from national epic rains in.
T198 Gilga finishes artillery and I cross my fingers he goes AL next.

And then, out of the blue on T199 I get a DoW from Peter!! IIIk!
T199 overview in next post.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T199 situation :

Except for the untimely demise of my poor scout which got insta-gibbed by an infantryman, the only units of peters that I can see are some boats.

I have been preparing for war, so this should be doable, but if I can avoid having a stack of infantrymen landing on my shores, that would be completely awesome. Almost all cities have a cannon almost ready pre-built, waiting for artillery so I can finish the builds.

Almost 9k espoinage points on Glgamesh, and a horde of spies is standing by in a city that he is willing to accept.

The EP should be enough for 3, possibly 4 techs.
Whats relevant is Physics->Artillery and Railroad->Combustion, Bio would be nice too ofcourse, and in 3 turns rocketry might be possible.
Could get everything eventually ofcourse, but most cost-efficient would be to wait 3 more turns before gifting and stealing, but there is a sense of urgency now.

I think that best is to gift right away and prioritize railroad->combustion.
As Peter doesn't have oil, getting destroyers out in a hurry would gain cruical safety right away.
I was hoping to get AL but that doesn't look too likely, not even by brokering techs I steal from Gilga. But I could probably make something happen with rifles+artillery, with machineguns and SAM-infantry for support and defence.

Gilga has gone mass media, and justinian too looks like he is eyeing an cultural victory.
Thats kind of nice, as it keeps them less scary, but it also sets the clock ticking.
Getting Peter as a vassal would be awesome if I could do it, but if that isn't possible... Maybe make peace eventually and make a run for Ragnar as first target?
Not at all sure it can be nearly as fast as it needs to be though.

 

[Nick723]

Thanks @krikav - nice to have some guidance here as way out of my depth. Have met all AI now so took a look at your game...looks like you had it super rough! Well done for persevering!

I've continued on a little longer (T145), not really sure what I'm doing - but ended up trading away Astro to near tech parity. Pausing for now as not really sure what to do next...

Ragnar and Willem are at war (good), Peter is plotting (I suspect not at me, but it's possible). Picked up a couple of resource trades at last so can grow cities a little!

Spoiler :

Not sure what to do next... I was thinking about going to Cannons, although Cuirassiers are still on the table I guess and I could get there quicker. Techwise not sure whether just to self tech through guilds -> gunpowder -> chemistry -> steel, or whether to tech something else (e.g. printing press) with the hope of getting there more quickly by trades?

 

[krikav]

@Nick723

Spoiler :

Haven't loaded your game (busy with mine, exciting warfare. ).
But just looking at tech-screen:
WvO is often willing to trade, so I suspect he will give you guild for some of your techs as soon as one other AI gets guilds.
I would try to hold out a few turns, you can either just save up cash, or if you feeling more daring and ready to commit, you can roll through hunting->archery and possibly some other small tech, that way you can store upp beaker overflow and once you get guilds you can throw multiple turns right away into gunpowder.
Or you do some mix of the both, saving a few turns first and then commiting.

Printing Press is sort of the monarchy of the renaissance, the AIs tech it often and they are always willing to trade it away. (Doesn't unlock units nor wonders).
So often it's a bad choice, but sometimes it can be nice.

 

[krikav]

@Nick723
Some other thoughts:

Spoiler :

Also, don't forget that your empire must be somewhat in sync with tech.
It doesn't help if you reach steel, unless you are able to do something once you get there, so preparations are important, and so are hard priorities. There are a myriad of things that are good and helpful, but alas, one can't do everything. :/

I don't see many workers on your screenshot, are you sure you have enough? There is loads of stuff to do now that CS is dropping in (farms) and later guilds/chemistry for workshops and replaceable parts for windmills.
It can be easy to remember to build settlers post-optics, but it's also important to stock up on more workers!

One thing that I try to keep in mind, is that after the astro bulb, I try to work on some GPerson somewhere, so I have the opportunity to run a GA at some point if the situation calls for it.
You seem to be halfway there in Turfan? Put that city, or some other city that might be more suited, on GP-duty.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler Toward T210 :

I gift Hovd to Gilgamesh (the reason I can give him this, is because he settled an city on my continent).
These modifiers are multiplicative, the base cost is always 1.5 times the beaker cost which for railroad is 7605.
This base cost is then multipled 11407 * 0.8 * 0.85 * 0.5 * 1.06 * 0.5, and the end cost is 2281 espionage points.
This is pretty nice, since with nationhood I have "free libraires" everywhere at +25%, and jail cost 120hammers and is useful for it's ability to handle warweariness and give +50% espionage, and the intelligence agency is also +50%.
Much higher than universities/observatories.
After the city gift, Gilgamesh culture goes up and the 0.5 modifier drops rather quickly, which is very costly for me.
Best is to have enough EP and enough spies to rob everything you need in one big heist!

I had abit of rotten luck and many spies got caught and more died. But I got the crucial techs, I was afraid I wouldn't be able to afford all these four.

Last turn I upgraded a few galleons to transports, which are brutal in their own right at 16 base strength. Peter landed two grenadiers and a cuir on my island.. what an invasion!
I make sure to attack the grenadiers so they don't attack me, they get only their bonus when attacking.

Ragnar had also finished bio, so I get that for free. Noone is willing to join in on the fun with Peter.

Gilgamesh must have gotten AL in a trade, but thats very nice. I'll have enough EP to steal it in a few turns, good!
WvO peacevassals to Justinian, bad... Very bad!

Culture is way up from only these few turns.. I should perhaps have built a theatre or something when I settled the city.
Only -22% now instead of -50% means I pay a whooping 1365 more points to get AL.
But I get AL, and thats important.

I was worried here that peter would land on my shores. I do have a welcomming party prepared, but still, 12 infantry would not be nice to deal with. Unfortunatly I have no way to shoot down the boats. Crappy scouting on my part no noticing them in time. I have one airship, but I should have had 2-3 of them keeping the oceans lit up.
But Peter is a nice guy, and makes a sharp U-turn, setting sail for my nothern dual-fish-horse island instead, and I slowly wither away that fleet with 3 destroyers and some opportunistic transports.

Yet still more expensive, but it's the best way for me to get tech right now.
The added commerce from windmills are needed, and I'm almost certain I need to get to industrialism soon.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T210 :

Have drafted quite alot of Infantry. The entire army is carefully spread out on my continent, standing guard and keeping happines. Most cities are at -6 from drafting and some from whipping. I want to upgrade a few more galleons but other than that I probably just have to save up cash to be able to afford a culture slider once I move out. Have gotten a GGeneral which have made a super medic, and the 6 factory spots I prioritized are almost done.
Need to get more transports too.

Peter is bound to have a gargantuan army, so I need to choose landing spot carefully. There is a forested hill up close by moscow and I'm thinking I should land there.
Very nice that he is lacking coal/oil, because he doesn't have railroads everywhere!
I think continuing to push against Peter now, with my already established war success is the best plan, if I can capitulate him I might have a chance, having him as a buffer when I go for Justinian & Friends.

The clock is ticking... I wish I could afford to pay justinian to go out of free speach, but economy is very strained now.

They are blazing away in tech. Not sure if either Justinian or Gilgamesh have their culture slider up full yet.
I have no idea what poor Ragnar is doing.

Finally gotten globe up in Turfan, that will help to keep drafting up.
Factories in Karakorum, Beshebalik, Old Sarai, Ning-hsia and on the island I share with Ragnar with fish+clam.
Other spots is mainly for drafting or whipping an artilery when anger gets too high.
Some spots that are inbetween gets a drydock and whip navy.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T223 :

T211 Ragnar Discoveres medicine, I trade it with him and give him artillery+assembly line, I figured that he would become more likely to be my war buddy if he gets his power up.

Some dude where standing on my landing spot. I wait a turn and he is kind enough to move. Have more boats incomming too.

T213 I give Justinian and Gilgamesh medicine for all their cash and that they adopt nationhood, Justinian goes from 22 turns to 30turns to legendary in his first city.

The next turn, they hold an election to mandate enviromentalism. I defy that because I think I need state property, but the 5 unhappines is going to hurt.
My landing party is left unharmed, and I attack those artillery with some infantry+ siege promoted cavallery, lose one guy but better than to get smashed in the face.

I pay 3 artillery to crack the city open, I pondered to leave one damaged guy in there, but instead I attack with the medic which can move back and leave the city unguarded, to kill off his airships too.
I pester him with my destroyers, blocking of and starving his cities and keeping his nasty galleons trapped.

Have to crank the slider up to 40% to keep everyone happy now.

I have no idea why, but he didn't recapture the city. So I just entered with boats and unloaded in there.
After abit of defence and heal I think I'm ready to move on.

The attack stack was solid enough, but the city defenders took a nasty hit. Lots of rifles dead, but I don't have enough cash to upgrade them anyway. :/
After softening up his attack stack with only one suicide artillery (barrage promoted) I slaughter his attack stack, but I'm stopped in my tracks toward Moscow.

T218 Ragnar can be bribed against Peter, so I give him electricity for that.

I constantly ship reinforcements into Rostov, and now I try to supplement the guys standing by Moscows gates, but I feel very thinly spread.
I lose some troops next turn but only a few.

I hit Moscow hard, but can't push through, need to stay and heal.

T223 Peter discoveres Fission, which means that my naval superiority is over. I give Ragnar combustion to help me keep the oceans clean.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T241 :

Spotted a naval attack, blitz is a very good promotion!

There is never enough units... This is why it's good to bring along every riff-raff you can find, most units can be used to mopp up the severely injured units thats left. Moscow took forever to fall.

But once Moscow was gone, other cities (the coastal ones) fell like dominos.

I had severe happines issues. Perhaps I shouldn't have defied, but simply accepted to end up in enviromentalism and free speech?
The worst thing with this was that I had to resort to building wealth in most cities to simply not go broke.
Conquest gold kept me floating somewhat, but if I at any point where to run out of cash, my culture slider would drop and everything would completely implode in an instant.

With 0% culture, still deep negative gold since every citizen in almost every city refuses to work. Every city would just starve and die.

I got a GSpy and infiltrated that at gilgamesh and gifted him another city, stole radio and industrialism, flipped industrialism onwards to Ragnar for Fascism, but I didn't think about revolting. Too busy with warfare.

Peter was an extremly tough nut to crack... I have no idea why he resisted so long.

You are NOT doing fine on your own! We need to form a team!

We do not have time for this Peter!! Iiik!

Peter doesn't give in after this capture either.. :/

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T250 loss :

But once I clear out almost all units from Yekatrineburg, I'm checking after each kill basically, because I don't want his cities, I want him strong so he can help me.. Then he FINALLY relents. I got flight and some cash in the deal too.

My empire is very glad that we are no longer at a lengthy war!
I gift back a city to Peter, start to micro units to prepare to attack Justinian.
I'm saving up cash to bribe him out of Free speach and make some initial scouting.
At first it did look kind of promissing, not too advanced and not too many units!

But in his capital, which I need to burn to the ground... Hmm no, this is for sure GG.
I bribe him into Nationhood and the timer of Thesaionica and Adrianeople goes from 4 turns and 5 turns to.... 6turns, 6turns. :|

He even holds an ellection to taunt me. Ragnar voted for me though. I'll remember all the nice aid he have given me this game.

With only 3 turns to legendary on his cities, I have no choice but to die as I lived, I declare on Justinian, land a pathetic scrambled stack next to Constantinople.
I check if Ragnar wants to lose with me, but he isn't interested.
Isn't glory good enough for you ragnar?!

Next turn, Justinian manages to bribe him against me instead.
Can't blame him.

I note that the two macemen that I built to conquer that barb city in the beginning, that have been tagging along for the entire game on mop-up-duty, are the last ones to stand. A fitting and glorious end!

GG Justinian, well played!

And some post-mortem...

Spoiler :

I think I was abit unlucky with Justinian/Gilgamesh getting to far ahead, much land and peacevassals.
That Peter was so extremly stubborn was the last nail in my coffin, if he would have capitulated after Moscow I think i could have managed to scramble together an army to snipe cities from Justinian and fight on for much longer.

I think that my main error was that after optics contact, when I noticed Hannibal as a peacevassal to Justinian, I didn't feel an extreme sense of urgency.
I played much like I always do, when there is good land to settle, I settle there and play the long game, confident that I can eventually turn things around if only I get a good chunk of land to work with.

I should probably have seen that that wouldn't work in this situation, and instead I should have played a much more active and agressive game from an earlier stage, and hopefully make some progress earlier.
Not sure that I would have been able to though, but that was likely my best option at that point in the game!

 

[krikav]

@Fippy
Did you forsee this?

 

[Fippy]

Sort of
With how well the AIs were doing an earlier war + vassal was needed i guess.
Map was an extreme and needed super fast acting pretty much, look at the date of Justi's victory it's almost obscene