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A Global Manifesto as crafted by Occupy++

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by White Elk, May 11, 2012.

  1. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    To all intents and purposes, modern interpretations and the conflict between them is chiefly an exercise in probabilities. In order to "prove" one of them over another, one would have to reproduce Earth and human society as the way they were when the event took place, and alter those events experimentally to determine whether that thing actually did do what one might think it did. Since this is, of course, impossible, historical analysis is not falsifiable.
     
  2. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton Awake

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    It is news to me that in the USA a disdain for the UN requires special education.
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Compared to what?
     
  4. Neomega

    Neomega Deity

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    just reposting, since i did not realize others had posted as I was editing.

    I do not understand your question.
     
  5. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    If the UN sucks, what should replace it?
     
  6. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton Awake

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    Leviathan, duh
     
  7. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    And having put it that way, it only remains to split the history profession ought to be split between "archivists of dead people's opinions" and (present day) "philosophers of the past" trying to get added into that archive! :lol:

    On the bright side you historians are no worse that sociologists, for example: even the present is fleeting...

    Edit: but this is getting too OT, I meant only a joke, sorry.
     
  8. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

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    Fortunately for you, there is a thread in my signature dedicated to just such a subject.

    Presumably you're using the word "idealist" in that classic dichotomous manner to suggest that my positions are the opposite of "realist," in which case it remains but for me to ask just what either of those words actually means. TF does a decent job of explaining it below, but you've yet to respond so I know not whether you agree.

    In my experience, the idealist/realist dichotomy is generally used to suggest, as TF said, that a person or organization's position requires people to adhere to established ideas, rather than to behave as is natural. And that, inversely, the opposite term, realism, is a position that considers how people actually behave In The Real World. Considering the very Real World behavior-grounded nature of Marxism, the idea that any Marxist would be idealist is as ridiculous as suggesting that a Muslim is polytheist. Part of its defining nature is its realist take on the world. We suggest not that people are driven by some kind of universal greed, or that economics is dictated by the caprice of an invisible hand, but rather that all human interaction and nature is dictated by their relations to their material condition, and that this relationship can be used to understand all of human history. It also explains the multitudinous character of human nature. Whereas the ideal of capitalism is grounded upon universal and eternal personal greed creating greater collective benefit, Marxism understands this as being a product of man's relation to private property, mass-production, and the commodification of money. Greed is so prevalent because it is what our society preaches is necessary and ideal. When material conditions change, so does human nature. You have summoned history to prove a point previously: surely you are aware that many of the capitalist virtues today were regarded once as great vices which ran contrary to human nature! Even Adam Smith regarded the corporation as something impossible because of man's supposed inherent personal greed! And yet here we are. So while I have rambled a bit, and can hopefully be forgiven, for it is late and I have just finished a very long shift, I think my points, that your idealist/realist dichotomy is a false one, and that such a label does not apply to me, my positions, or those of similar mind to me, has been made well.

    Nonsense, you're vindicating me fantastically, and I appreciate that in a most UnGentlemanly way. :hatsoff: I just need you to qualify this word for me:

     
  9. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    It may be the wrong word, but what I'm basically getting at is that you'd identify yourself with that part of the Leninist tradition drawing on Western Marxism- Gramsci, Lukács, etc.
     
  10. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    Right. And then they performed a complete fail in 2008, both with the Presidency and Congress. You're not going to find any evidence for your case within America's voting history.
     
  11. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

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    Ah okay, yes. I don't think we have a word for that. :lol: As of late, the last year or so, I've taken an increasingly keen interest in the uniquely American brand of socialism as envisioned by Eugene Debs and Bill Haywood; combining the better parts of pre-USSR European socialism with an almost anarcho-syndicalist approach, and given an American flair. Which is why I don't really like the compartmentalization that we communists are so obsessed with; unless one literally draws one's entire understanding of socialist/communist thought from a single fountain, our ideas, theories, and analyses are aggregates from multiple sources.
     

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