A New Dawn Bug Reports and Feedback

[Rezca]

Yes.

JosEPh

Aha... I like playing with it on because of the Right of Passage and Embassies options. I rarely give in to or use the workers and siege unit trading, and the AI seems to love demanding dozens of them for a single tech

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I've asked about this before, but... What exactly makes the AI 'demand' that you make peace with someone?
If you say yes, the war ends (obviously) and you get a temporary(?) bonus to relations with the AI that made the request, and if you say no it's the same as declining a resource or tech request from them.

What I'm curious about is what causes them to make these 'requests' in the first place. What the conditions are for them making the request and etc. I can understand an AI wanting you to make peace with a friend of theirs you're at war with, but I've been bugged about making peace with leaders they hate too.
In my current game, I've been asked by the AI no less than five times now to make peace, four of which I've said yes to since they were either wars I had no interest in fighting or ones I really wanted to get out of. One of these wars was actually against Revolution-spawned rebels!
Funny thing here is that they had only been around for half a dozen turns, and the AI could "no longer tolerate" that war? Ha!

But now Asoka's demanding I make peace with the Maya. What I don't get here is that they both hate each other - a lot. The Maya had razed Asoka's cities, brought in war allies against him, and have had multiple wars with him. They're both utterly Furious with each other, and they're worst enemies.

So why? Why is Asoka wanting me to make peace with the guy? I say no and suddenly Asoka's angry because I "refused to help him".
Shouldn't the AI only make these demands if they're Pleased or Friendly with the leader you're at war with? From what I can tell there's no easy way to disable these demands, other than dialing up the leader and telling them to stop bothering you, which I really don't want to do with leaders I'm Friendly with. I'm not Friendly with Asoka (anymore), so after I said 'No' to him I told him to stop bugging me, but still... Wouldn't it make more sense if the AI did not beg you to make peace with leaders they hate?

As Joseph said, someone else wrote Advanced Diplomacy, so I'm not sure of the answer. But I think what mainly drives AI in its decisions is the will to win the game. So Asoka wanted you to make peace because he was fearing that you get too strong for his comfort; and that you can steal his prey. Hence no, AI shouldn't make these demands only if they're pleased or friendly with the leader you're at war with. It's a CIV limitation, because it's a game and AI is programmed to win the game: it's not real life where there's no "real" or "final" winner. So it doesn't matter (not too much at least) how you behave towards other leaders: if this is reducing victory chances for AI, that civ will try to change its behaviour to reach victory somehow.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

What revision are you using?
Did you clear the cache first (Holding shift while loading)?



On a different topic, I got this event for the first time while playing.
Option 1 provides a Monument in the city, Option 2 does... Nothing?

In either way the event seems utterly useless since Monuments have already been obsoleted by me researching Astronomy a while back. I don't know if the second option does anything and just doesn't say so, or if it literally is an empty option. Since I have Astronomy, I don't know why the first option wasn't already greyed out and unselectable.


On the subject of events, I'm remembering one that had several options that always seemed to be active with no prerequisites, but there were two Options that seemed completely redundant. That is, one was completely free but provided a temporary happiness boost to the city, while the other cost you money but did absolutely nothing. I think it was the "Dock Workers on Strike" event? Every time I saw the event come up I thought to myself "Why is that second option even there?". You could get the happiness boost for free, a production boost for a building, or pay money and have nothing happen.


*edit* Also, when exactly does the "Storm at Sea" event go obsolete? The one that randomly [And relatively frequently] spawns a storm and sinks one of your boats?

Some events have always been buggy; I'll have a look. Thank you for pointing it out (I've always wondered myself about that Dock Workers Strike, IIRC)

 

[Rezca]

@AdvancedDiplomacy: True, it can be thought of that way in most cases... Good points though, it just struck me as odd in some cases - since I see them ask for me to make peace with their enemies more often than their friends (Given what you said about Civ's limitations, I'm assuming this is just coincidence ^^)

@Events: I also got the Stonehenge Druids event just a few turns ago, in 1560AD
Long after Stonehenge had gone obsolete. Not sure if that means anything or if the event doesn't obsolete with the wonder.

If I spot any other event oddities I can point them out (I do notice some mention a location/civ/etc and instead of the variable name it will say ????. I'll grab a screenshot if such an event pops up again. Usually it's one involving a resource near a city I think)

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

What revision are you using?
Did you clear the cache first (Holding shift while loading)?



On a different topic, I got this event for the first time while playing.
Option 1 provides a Monument in the city, Option 2 does... Nothing?

In either way the event seems utterly useless since Monuments have already been obsoleted by me researching Astronomy a while back. I don't know if the second option does anything and just doesn't say so, or if it literally is an empty option. Since I have Astronomy, I don't know why the first option wasn't already greyed out and unselectable.


On the subject of events, I'm remembering one that had several options that always seemed to be active with no prerequisites, but there were two Options that seemed completely redundant. That is, one was completely free but provided a temporary happiness boost to the city, while the other cost you money but did absolutely nothing. I think it was the "Dock Workers on Strike" event? Every time I saw the event come up I thought to myself "Why is that second option even there?". You could get the happiness boost for free, a production boost for a building, or pay money and have nothing happen.


*edit* Also, when exactly does the "Storm at Sea" event go obsolete? The one that randomly [And relatively frequently] spawns a storm and sinks one of your boats?

Ok, about Dock Workers strike, here's what happens (this event is working, more or less):
- you get 15 happy turns, for free (giving in to their demands)
- you bribe them, at a cost
- you replace them with cranes and get bonus hammers (at a lower cost)
- you get angry citizens for some turns

I guess this should be changed to

- you get 15 happy turns, low cost (giving in to their demands)
- you bribe them, at a cost
- you replace them with cranes and get bonus hammers (at a higher cost)
- you get angry citizens for some turns, no cost

What do you think?

Also, storm events never go obsolete I think; I don't see big problems with it.

I've not been able to find that event with monuments; any other hint?

 

[Rezca]

Ok, about Dock Workers strike, here's what happens (this event is working, more or less):
- you get 15 happy turns, for free (giving in to their demands)
- you bribe them, at a cost
- you replace them with cranes and get bonus hammers (at a lower cost)
- you get angry citizens for some turns

I guess this should be changed to

- you get 15 happy turns, low cost (giving in to their demands)
- you bribe them, at a cost
- you replace them with cranes and get bonus hammers (at a higher cost)
- you get angry citizens for some turns, no cost

What do you think?

Also, storm events never go obsolete I think; I don't see big problems with it.

I've not been able to find that event with monuments; any other hint?

Hmm since the bribe option doesn't have any side effects, maybe it could be the free one? Or that option removed entirely.


Ahh alright... I'm pretty sure it goes obsolete eventually (Never had a diesel or fusion ship vanish in a rainstorm) but it's one I wouldn't mind editing out. There was a time when I was absolutely terrified to take any ship pre-Industrial out of a city for any reason, even for guarding coastal resources, becuase that event sank my ships so often. That was a long time back though - the event isn't nearly as common as it was before, but it's still my least favorite event. It has the worst timing, and I even had a Fluyt sunk the very turn after leaving port with a Colonist on board.
I thought I recalled something about the chances being reduced after Ship Building was researched, and Navigation or something negating the chance of it happening on Coast - but I digress. Could be remembering things wrong.
But hey, is just a minor complaint. A very annoying event when it does happen, but it's nothing really major. Is not a big problem, just an annoying one.

Sorry about that brief ramble ^^;
There's plenty of worse events, but the Storm at Sea event has always been a big peeve for some reason. Randomly losing a unit when not even in combat and simply safeguarding your recourses... Or ferrying a settler to a new land while heavily guarded and the RNG deciding to pick the one carrying the settler at random... Yeah. World Builder time


Hmmm the Monument one it said something about the city erecting a war monument in honor of fallen soldiers in a war...
...
Aha, found the screenshots I took. Both of these really should have obsoleted after I researched Astronomy (I've *never* seen the Stonehenge one in AD years before)


*EDIT* Huh, I can't see the Memorial Monument event screenshot? I only see the Stonehenge one, but the forum claims I've already uploaded it??

 

[Rezca]

Trying again... Even renaming it didn't help. Can't see the upload in my post when editing it, but it insists it's already there


...

Nope, still refuses to upload it. Even trying the original, it keeps saying I've already attached it in this thread. Dang.

Well this is what it says:

Text: Our citizens living in (City Name) have built a war memorial to commemorate the lives of our brave soldiers.

Options:
-They will be remembered so long as our new monuments stand. (Receive a free Monument in the city)

-The new additions to our monuments will continue to awe the locals (Does nothing)

 

[JosEPh_II]

Check how much storage space you have left on the forum Rezca. You maybe hitting your limit and will need to delete some earliest uploads. It's all in your Account settings page iirc.

JosEPh

 

[Rezca]

Check how much storage space you have left on the forum Rezca. You maybe hitting your limit and will need to delete some earliest uploads. It's all in your Account settings page iirc.

JosEPh

According to the forum it's only 11MB - the red bar's only making it about 1/4 or so the way across. Maybe not even that far =/

I've deleted most of my save file uploads a few nights ago.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Okay, then I guess the forum didn't like that screen shot.

JosEPh

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Well this is what it says:

Text: Our citizens living in (City Name) have built a war memorial to commemorate the lives of our brave soldiers.

Options:
-They will be remembered so long as our new monuments stand. (Receive a free Monument in the city)

-The new additions to our monuments will continue to awe the locals (Does nothing)

Got it! You're right, there's definetely a mistake. This event requires Astronomy instead of going obsolete with it, I'll correct this one. First option grants you a monument, if you already have one in that city, option is correctly greyed out. Second option grants +1 to the monument if you already have one.

Of course in your case it didn't work because the monument was obsolete.

 

[Rezca]

Got it! You're right, there's definetely a mistake. This event requires Astronomy instead of going obsolete with it, I'll correct this one. First option grants you a monument, if you already have one in that city, option is correctly greyed out. Second option grants +1 to the monument if you already have one.

Of course in your case it didn't work because the monument was obsolete.

Interesting, so it was just a simple mistake

Explains why I've never seen it before.... How uncommon is it? Some events I see all the time (Storm at Sea, Buried routes, forest fires, collapsed mines, hunters gather surplus game, volcanoes/earthquakes...) while others I very rarely see (Mostly Civ-specific ones like the Aztec one and religion-specific ones. I sometimes see the civic specific events, but not as often)
It's the first time I've seen this one though.

 

[Sgtslick]

The tech diffusion now is far too much, to the point where i'd say its completely broken. For example in this new game I started, I have 3 cities and i'm getting 18 science per turn, I meet America and suddenly I can research 600+ research point techs like currency, and techs like calendar and mathematics, got all 3 in 3 turns (2 of which while I was in anarchy!)

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

The tech diffusion now is far too much, to the point where i'd say its completely broken. For example in this new game I started, I have 3 cities and i'm getting 18 science per turn, I meet America and suddenly I can research 600+ research point techs like currency, and techs like calendar and mathematics, got all 3 in 3 turns (2 of which while I was in anarchy!)

It's just a temporary effect. It never lasts more than 1 or 2 turns and it happens because you're too far behind in techs; the same applies for other civs being too far behind against you, and it's done because otherwise they fall behind too much. You can tune it down anyway, I've explained it in a couple of posts recently. It's anyway experimental code, I'll see if I can enhance it.

 

[Sgtslick]

It's just a temporary effect. It never lasts more than 1 or 2 turns and it happens because you're too far behind in techs; the same applies for other civs being too far behind against you, and it's done because otherwise they fall behind too much. You can tune it down anyway, I've explained it in a couple of posts recently. It's anyway experimental code, I'll see if I can enhance it.

Ideally it would scale with difficulty, AI gets a tech advantage higher up the difficulty and thats how I like it. With tech diffusion like this, it makes the higher difficulty much less difficult. Currency would of taken me like 30+ turns on blitz deity.

Scaling to difficulty for human player, if not then perhaps just giving AI generally higher, more favorable % of tech diffusion.

Despite all this, overall I think it still needs to be toned down.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Ideally it would scale with difficulty, AI gets a tech advantage higher up the difficulty and thats how I like it. With tech diffusion like this, it makes the higher difficulty much less difficult. Currency would of taken me like 30+ turns on blitz deity.

Scaling to difficulty for human player, if not then perhaps just giving AI generally higher, more favorable % of tech diffusion.

Despite all this, overall I think it still needs to be toned down.

You're right byt if you set TECH_DIFFUSION_WELFARE_THRESHOLD in TechDiffusion_GlobalDefines.xml to something below 20-30, you get the "old style" tech diffusion I guess.
Problem is that if you don't boost tech diffusion like this, other civs fall behind very quickly, which means an easier game, not a harder one.
I could try to write some era-dependant code: in general AI is doing much better in early eras up to early renaissance.
And if you're the tech leader, you don't even notice this tech diffusion effect, if not by the fact that other civs won't fall behind too much, hence making the game harder because you won't have any tanks-against-spearmen war.

 

[buck beach]

These two issues are exclusive of each other.

I have given up setting up games in BUG with resource depletion regardless of how much I like the concept. My issue has to due with several iron mines depleting in a single turn. This has happen to me various times under separate builds over the last year+. I have not surfaced it previously thinking others have probably experienced it and complain already. Must be something uncorrectable so I just won't use that option.

The other issue is crashes to desktop under 667. This happens periodically and if I back up one or more turns I have been able to continue playing. This one attached has crashed a couple of times.

Buck

Crashes continue every two or so turns. Find that if I change something minor (move a unit, upgrade, etc) then the crashed save may work. Scratch this, I have a non-recoverable crash at 978AD and will have to go back a turn or two to see if that works

 

[JosEPh_II]

@buck,

In the Main BtS folder (where the BtS exe file resides) you will find a file called Minidump.dmp. Please compress (with anyone of these 3 programs: Winzip, Winrar, or 7z) and upload with your save game. This minidump gives valuable info on tracking down the problem area most of the time. A very useful tool in bug hunting.

As to Resource Depletion Option, impo it's an unfinished leftover mod from the Afforess, os79 era. It's intent was to cause shortages and cause More wars. But it is incomplete as it does Not allow for new sources to be discovered. It also can cripple the AI. And a wreak AI is a soon "no fun" game. I recommend not using that Option. But to each his own poison.

Also buck give some detail as to what you last did before the CTD.

Thanks
JosEPh

 

[buck beach]

@buck,

In the Main BtS folder (where the BtS exe file resides) you will find a file called Minidump.dmp. Please compress (with anyone of these 3 programs: Winzip, Winrar, or 7z) and upload with your save game. This minidump gives valuable info on tracking down the problem area most of the time. A very useful tool in bug hunting.

As to Resource Depletion Option, impo it's an unfinished leftover mod from the Afforess, os79 era. It's intent was to cause shortages and cause More wars. But it is incomplete as it does Not allow for new sources to be discovered. It also can cripple the AI. And a wreak AI is a soon "no fun" game. I recommend not using that Option. But to each his own poison.

Also buck give some detail as to what you last did before the CTD.

Thanks
JosEPh

Have done nothing special. One was after completing Machu Picchu another after upgrading numerous Longbows to Arquebusiers and refortifying them next turn and others one maybe two orders.

Here's a contradiction to my last post where I said I was completely locked at 978AD. Accessed city where Machu Picchu is to check spelling and on a bet tried another executed and turn worked.

Note I changed attached to the 978AD game.

Buck

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I'll have a look at the save and minidump, but as for Resource Depletion it's working perfectly as far as I know. I've never played a game without it since ages and I've never had serious issues. True, sometimes a couple of mines disappear on the same turn or in a few turns, but IIRC it depends on how much you're using that resource: the more you use it, the sooner mines get depleted. Probably discovery rate could be increased just a bit but I've never had any issue with this option, nor have I ever seen AI having troubles with it and I really play EVERY game with that option.