A Petition to Merge NES-IOT

[JollyRoger]

I now support the merger for the entertainment value it will provide.

 

[Symphony D.]

An increase to 5 mb is not a large increase. I put them in to spice stuff up, ofc that subjective. But the point being we do use maps that are equal if not greater than the standard Symphony D map you guys use. Dont take this as an insult, I just find it annoying to see a Symphony D map in every "world" NES I join. Flyingchickens map is superb I must say. Also one can put so much interms of usefullness and not in aesthetics.

That map is 5 years old and your maps are frankly terrible. Applying a random canvas texture isn't "spicing things up," it's wasting file size for no discernible reason: it conveys no useful information and looks ugly to boot. This and this, while hardly the apex, are far more representative of what would be implemented currently if I had Photoshop on hand at the moment.

e: IOT's slavish devotion to the Paradox map projection in all its custom maps also doesn't really recommend its efforts in the field of cartography.

 

[Tyo]

I see this has turned into a complete pissing contest.

BJ, you should just close this.

 

[Terrance888]

I personally don't see the point of provinces, and am not convinced they can make better borders than intelligent and artistic and sophisticated (ha!) freehand. Can you give some arguments?

 

[hoplitejoe]

As for why you would use provinces,
A) They are much quicker and easier to use, which links to the fact IOT tends to have quicker updates.
B) They give clear defined decisions. Your troops are either in the province or not, this is of course at the sacrifice of realism, but makes it more of a "fair game" as the GM doesn't have to decide if the troops meet, if some tactic will work ect.


In the end it comes down some of the base differences between IOT and NES. IOT (mostly) uses provinces, which make a much better game, NES doesn't, meaning there are much more precise borders and a more realistic world.

 

[Tyo]

In the end functional compatability with the game in question is pretty much the only thing that should be considered. Aesthetics can come later and really don't matter anyways.

 

[hoplitejoe]

The fact they probably do in a NES might also give away a difference between the two games

 

[Tee Kay]

Personally, I use maps with provinces because they're easier to work with but more importantly to try to reduce the incidents of ugly borders that proliferate on NES.

 

[Terrance888]

Sonereal just attempted a drive by insulting in #nes. Fortunately, the incomprehensible drivel in some kind of foreign language failed to register among us. Unfortunately, he just made me madder at him for failing at insulting. Even Christos can manage good insults.

EDIT: mhm. So Provinces help reduce the floor of ugly borders somehow, and also make location of troops and important things easier? Interesting.

 

[Gem Hound]

I think positions of troops are simple as they are in NES, since you know, the shortest Nation NES I've seen was 6 month turns, with the longest being 100 year turns.

 

[hoplitejoe]

I think you miss the point of the location of troops, When I look at a map with provinces I can see my options, I can see other players options. Without borders there are literally endless things troops could do, including a lot of things which one gm would allow and another wouldn't, thus I can't really feel like I am making an informed choice when I make my orders.

 

[Luckymoose]

I think you miss the point of the location of troops, When I look at a map with provinces I can see my options, I can see other players options. Without borders there are literally endless things troops could do, including a lot of things which one gm would allow and another wouldn't, thus I can't really feel like I am making an informed choice when I make my orders.

Maybe when your orders are a paragraph and you're uninformed about geography.

Moderator Action: Infracted for this post and the consistently flaming posts throughout this thread.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Province-based or non-province based maps can be equally good looking- you could just as easily make a province map with ugly borders as you could make a freeform map with ugly borders. The relevant argument here is about functionality and flexibility.

 

[Gem Hound]

Provinces are not necessary, and would be completely useless in an NES-style nation building game.

The reason, as I was previously telling you, is that everything is based off of geography, and turns are long enough that armies could move from one side of the nation to the other once to maybe multiple times in one turn. Time has everything to do with it, and the mod and players know where their own troops are.

I also do not like writing things like this for orders:

I attack Siberia with 3 divisions from Urals.

I like going into details and also do not like in-thread orders since it bares what you are doing to everyone else.

Edit: Such a thing, if it were to happen, would cause people to decide to "Walk past the kitchen" while the cook you paid to poison the king is poisoning the wine.
Edit 2: That actually happened in a game I was playing.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Another reason IOTs use provinces is because a lot of the games have evolved into "1 Province = 1 Economy Point Per Turn" or something. Why we started with provinces, well I honestly don't know. I wasn't there when those decisions were made.

 

[Gem Hound]

I honestly do not know how economy is run in NESes, it seems to be different with every mod.

 

[Luckymoose]

I honestly do not know how economy is run in NESes, it seems to be different with every mod.

Some try to run it based on real world economics.

 

[Plotinus]

Moderator Action: The only substantial information I can glean from this trainwreck of a thread is that forcing all these people to play together by merging their forums would be a very bad idea.

I don't have the time, energy, or willpower to go through it all. Infractions to the worst offenders, and thread closed.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889