Accusations of cheating in the highest tournament levels of chess

For reference, I was referring to this bit in BJ's post:

The letter added that Niemann’s suspicious moves coincided with moments when he had opened up a different screen on his computer—implying that he was consulting a chess engine for the best move.​
“We are prepared to present strong statistical evidence that confirm each of those cases above, as well as clear ‘toggling’ vs ‘non-toggling’ evidence, where you perform much better while toggling to a different screen during your moves,” Rensch wrote.​
yeah i saw that. i just noted that avoiding toggling wouldn't necessarily prevent them from noticing cheating. toggling coinciding with big performance spikes will definitely raise eyebrows though.
 
So the players Hans defeats over the table are just crap, despite being GM to super GM? :)
I wonder what video Hikaru will make this time, after all Hans was checked everywhere for some device.

plot twist: Hans is cheating, but using tech 100 years ahead, that he personally created :D
 
one thing about tactical puzzles: it tends to be the case that *because* you are presented the puzzle, you know a winning solution is there. in real games, you don't know this (though some alleged forms of cheating are not specific moves, but 1 bit of information conveying something like this). thus tactical puzzles are training pattern recognition. i wonder if that couldn't be organized more efficiently than chess.com does it (like chaining many different looks of the same tactical idea together and and then doing 100s of those).
Oh yeah.

One thing that was brought up quite recently by, Magnus I think? And corroborated by Ben who disagrees with him about Hans-

But like, if you know on which move to look for a game winning move, and you're a GM strength, you don't need to be told the move.

You just need to be told to treat this one move like a tactical puzzle. Just this move.

Spend 20 minutes on this one move. If you know that, and you're a GM, it might only take one or two pings from outside for you to beat Carlsen.

That's mainly the sort of thing Carlsen is suggesting is happening: It's not that Hans is being fed engine moves over the board. You'd need to get a lot of communcation or go away from the board a lot.

It's that he's somehow being signalled to spend time on this one move above all the others.

With that kind of advantage, like.... I usually solve the agadmator puzzles where he says pause the video and find the winning move.

If I know to spend all my time on this one move, I've found moves that have beaten super GMs, and I suck out loud over the board.

The advantage of knowing WHEN to think because you've been given the help to know to think right now, is the real threat.

And since it's simply a signal, to think now, the communication can be quite covert and difficult to detect.

And that's a very realistic theory, a fine theory, and one I think anti cheaters should think about very much, it looks like for the next championship they're keeping spectators out and no electronic devices and making sure radio signals can't get in, which should largely shut down this form of cheating, if it exists.

But.... again, to harp on this point: It's a fine theory. It does explain why someone as brilliant as Hans could outplay Carlsen without it being mentally very taxing, and then lose every match in a tournament that took place a week or two back. That is very swingy.

But a theory is not proof. Theorycrafting ways to stop cheating, and suggesting the ways it could have been done, perfectly fine.

Until someone actually catches Hans doing it, he should go to tournaments and play.

Like, I think there's a chance Magnus is right, and that's how he's been able to do it.

What would prove the point is by letting Hans play more, and making sure that method of cheating can't be done.

If he's innocent, no further harm done to his reputation and he can earn his reputation back by beating strong players without any detectable cheating, repeatedly, earning his ELO in everyone's mind.

If he can do it without cheating that IS his ELO even if he cheated in the past.

If he's guilty, more instances of allowing him to try out his cheating method and catching it happen will prove the point.

Let Hans play. Everyone wins. He's innocent of the charge until proven. Let him prove himself, or let the cheating speak for itself. The truth will come out, if it isn't out already: He used to cheat, now he doesn't. Until proven otherwise.
 
By the way, on Hans' latest win:

His opponent (playing as white) resigned at this point:

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Why is is straightforward that you will mate the white king when left only with your king and a queen? (white also has a knight, and he would take out the final black pawn with his king)
(I assume there are known endgames and no one would blunder there? )

Google obviously provides some links for mating with only queen and king (eg this one), but would the white knight make no difference at all? (I suppose due to its type of movement, it won't stay defensible anyway as a wall, so king+queen would play the same tactic as if knight wasn't there?)
 
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This is without even checking with software, but the soon to promote black queen has an open board and the white king is in the center, and it should be trivial to pin the white knight to the white king and attack the knight with the black king and queen, win the knight, and checkmate. Or, fork the white king and the white knight and win the knight that way.

Having said that, I just googled the words king and queen versus king and knight and one of the first results is that it is theoretically a win for the side with the queen. Mate is possible to force, and stopping mate by force involves using the knight to defend, and that involves protecting squares around the king and it can't do that from further away than the opposing king can attack the mating square and the knight itself at the same time, because it's a short range piece.

As soon as the king attacks a mating square with the queen and king, and the knight with the king, the game is over, I believe. The side with the knight can't keep the knight and stop mate at the same time.

The knight is just not strong enough to perpetually defend the king. King gets driven to the edge of the board, knight has to avoid being captured, king has to move out of check, the queen covers way too many squares, and the knight isn't enough of a threat to even keep away the opposing king. There's no risk of checkmate, and it's really hard to stalemate as well.

It's just too strong. Side with the queen should win if they simply use basic mating ideas and the concept of a fork.
 
Why is is straightforward that you will mate the white king when left only with your king and a queen? (white also has a knight, and he would take out the final black pawn with his king)
(I assume there are known endgames and no one would blunder there? )
i could (probably) beat magnus or 4000 rated new stockfish/alphazero monstrosity with queen + king vs knight and king if those are the only pieces on the board, and i'm not that good. as long as you don't blunder a fork or stalemate, there's nothing they can do to prevent chain checks --> fork/pin/skewer to capture knight --> standard mating push. this is a comparatively trivial win for black at most levels of play.

the hard part is getting to that amount of material advantage in the endgame.
 
I think if the king is in the corner and the knight is protecting the king from check against the queen, and the enemy king is too close, since the knight is pinned and the king cannot move, if it's the turn of the side with the knight then it's a stalemate. How this could come about is trying to checkmate with king and queen and having the knight block and then rather than unpin the knight, you move your king too close to the other king so there's no escape square.

Not sure of the exact positioning. In my head it's hard to picture, I could be wrong.

You would also have to play pretty daftly I think, but it is possible to stalemate with all those pieces on the board, and if the knight ever forks opposing queen and king then it's a stalemate by insufficient material that way as well.

Both are exceedingly unlikely in GM level play.
 
I think if the king is in the corner and the knight is protecting the king from check against the queen, and the enemy king is too close, since the knight is pinned and the king cannot move, if it's the turn of the side with the knight then it's a stalemate. How this could come about is trying to checkmate with king and queen and having the knight block and then rather than unpin the knight, you move your king too close to the other king so there's no escape square.

Not sure of the exact positioning. In my head it's hard to picture, I could be wrong.

You would also have to play pretty daftly I think, but it is possible to stalemate with all those pieces on the board, and if the knight ever forks opposing queen and king then it's a stalemate by insufficient material that way as well.

Both are exceedingly unlikely in GM level play.
Videos of very cool stalemates on youtube are rather pretty too ^_^ (particularly blundered by the attacking side against someone who planned it as a trap).
I like the rule, although it is counterintuitive - in a way, the king is more than just checked, but then again the enemy literally isn't checking.
 
I could fight to a draw with a knight vs my opponents queen......when playing my eight year old. Any higher level play than that, it would be a pretty big blunder for the queen to not win.
 
in faster time formats of online games, it might be reasonable to expect ben to hit ~4% winrate vs magnus for example. also note that even with a several hundred elo difference, there is still non-zero estimated winrate by elo.
Ben is old and Carlsen is very strong @ blitz and rapid, I'd expect Ben to do even worse.

2400fide vs 2880 or so fide would be a clean sweep. Above 2500 each fifty points is a slog. Would be like me (aprox 1950fide) playing a 900 rated.
 
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I don't have such. He may have cheated, but there is no proof of it - only proof of cheating in online games, which is easy to do for anyone who logs into a server :) No known way of cheating offline (using chess engines; in the modern setting of the game with all the tech)
Niemann cheated. Everybody knows it. C’mon, now.

The proof is that the guy can not explain how he played at that level. If he were not assisted by signaling techniques, he’d genuinely be one of the best ever.
 
Niemann cheated. Everybody knows it. C’mon, now.

The proof is that the guy can not explain how he played at that level. If he were not assisted by signaling techniques, he’d genuinely be one of the best ever.
It's not like everyone gives analysis, afaik. Besides, why would a gm be unable to give any analysis, while so many chess youtubers (who aren't competing at this level anyway) are?
In theory, Hans may be just trolling; why expect him to be worse at analysis than non-pro chess players :)
From the few videos of Carlsen playing I have watched, he often goes for the "just being intuitive" line himself - granted, this isn't a formal setting, just a youtube video he makes.
 
The proof is that the guy can not explain how he played at that level. If he were not assisted by signaling techniques, he’d genuinely be one of the best ever.
that is not evidence of cheating. in fact, there remains no actual cheating allegation at the tournament in question itself. that would involve specifying some method/actions actually taken whereby hans cheated, not pointing to his past history and then vaguely claiming it must be so here.

we know he cheated extensively in 2020. i haven't seen evidence or even a specific allegation that he cheated in or near this tournament. that's not to say i believe him, but at this point he hasn't even been accused of any specific action that isn't allowed in otb chess!
 
that is not evidence of cheating. in fact, there remains no actual cheating allegation at the tournament in question itself. that would involve specifying some method/actions actually taken whereby hans cheated, not pointing to his past history and then vaguely claiming it must be so here.

we know he cheated extensively in 2020. i haven't seen evidence or even a specific allegation that he cheated in or near this tournament. that's not to say i believe him, but at this point he hasn't even been accused of any specific action that isn't allowed in otb chess!
It’s self-evident to chess players that if you cannot explain why you played good position after good position, something is seriously amiss. You would expect the new best player in the world to offer astonishing insights, even a sound novel move or two. Nope. Huh. Odd.

Objective proof? no. Combine his lack of understanding with a history of cheating, though, and Occam’s razor shifts strongly towards cheater rather than new GOAT player.
 
Yeah if you can't explain why you did what you did there's a good chance it wasn't you doing it.

The move speaks for itself
 
This is just petty:


But good job for Hikaru to make more money out of clicks by endless beads/silicon snippets :mischief:

Tldw: Hikaru puts down Hans' first victory in this tournament, saying his opponent played badly, then puts down Hans' draw, saying he was playing computer moves until two consecutive blunders.
Cool, but if you go this way, he can't 'win' regardless of what moves he plays.

He also says that Magnus announced he won't play again in a tournament with Hans. Which brings the inevitable question: should such be possible as open blackmail of tournaments? (and with no repercussions).
 
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