Accusations of cheating in the highest tournament levels of chess

Yeah. Hikaru may be a strong super GM, but no one ever accused him of not being a selfish jerk.

If he didn't have chess to focus on, he would be the boss that calls you in to work on weekends and gets upset when you don't answer your phone during sleeping hours at home.
 
Yeah. Hikaru may be a strong super GM, but no one ever accused him of not being a selfish jerk.

If he didn't have chess to focus on, he would be the boss that calls you in to work on weekends and gets upset when you don't answer your phone during sleeping hours at home.
He might also be unhappy due to being always defeated in important tournaments by Carlsen. If he couldn't win, it'd be way too embarrashing if Hans actually can win without cheating = maybe at some point he could win an actual tournament against Magnus if the latter doesn't just refuse to play him.
 
Hikaru can be a dick and still be right
It's not sustainable to just accuse Hans for cheating in his games, when he has to be full-body scanned. I'd have no issue with not allowing him to play online tournaments, but otb I see no issue. If he is cheating now too, but the tech can't pick it up, well then try to make the tech better - but just believing (edit after Gorbles :D read: acting out your belief) he cheats without evidence otb is imo very dishonorable to do from those chess influencers.
 
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Tldw: Hikaru puts down Hans' first victory in this tournament, saying his opponent played badly, then puts down Hans' draw, saying he was playing computer moves until two consecutive blunders.

Last bit sounds to me like a compliment. We all strive to make computer moves as much as possible. Every high level game has multiple top computer lines and it’s common practice to point them out, in order to establish, for the viewer, how close the player operates in relation to his top ability in a particular section of the game.

I’ve seen the vid too, and it looked to me like Hikaru, while cashing in coupons, is also trying to be objective. Calling the first game objectively unimpressive, since both players made serious inaccuracies at various points. Both made strong moves too. (that’s Hikaru’s words) Even though every game of chess can be called beautiful, the biggest beauties are the ones without blunders, we all know that.

When the young grandmaster is saying his game is so beautiful he doesn’t even wanna go through it in a post match analysis - that’s when you know someone’s ego just flown through the roof and off into space. I think Hikaru is being modest and professional in this vid in not calling this nuts.

Honestly, I think the chess drama swept you away a little bit there, Kyriakos. I see Hikaru informing on both sides of the aisle constantly, which is a thing every good commentator should do, while giving out his own superGM take on the technicalities. What’s not to like?

He also says that Magnus announced he won't play again in a tournament with Hans. Which brings the inevitable question: should such be possible as open blackmail of tournaments? (and with no repercussions).

There’s a long tradition of world champions defying FIDE, trying to bring their own rules, etc. We’re watching the modern version of that old play :)
 
People can believe whatever they want, surely? Belief in of itself is not an action.
Eh, meant (consequently) make that belief public, from their very specific place as chess influencers ^_^


Honestly, I think the chess drama swept you away a little bit there, Kyriakos. I see Hikaru informing on both sides of the aisle constantly, which is a thing every good commentator should do, while giving out his own superGM take on the technicalities. What’s not to like?
I am only following for the scandal :D
Btw, can't say I agree that Hikaru is balanced. He is glaringly in favor of Magnus. He could go a few seconds without implying that Hans uses an engine too, imo ^_^
That said, he is hardly the only one doing it, it's the most clickbait thing to do and that is why those people have media channels= $
 
Hikaru can be a dick and still be right

Yes.

But you can be right without knowing and be wrong about how you handle it.

For example, if I accused someone on the street randomly of being a murderer, and police swatted their house and found a bunch of evidence of a murder, but I was just joking, I was right, but not because I knew what the heck I was talking about, and if I keep doing that, it's mostly going to hit innocent people.

Hikaru can be right about Hans cheating over the board, but how he's going about it is assuming the conclusion and looking for all evidence that can fit the crime, where "evidence" means anything he can use to smear the guy.

Even if Hans is a big fat cheat, or used to be, that's not how people correctly accuse people of a wrongdoing. It's irresponsible. It's ego-stroking, it's selfish. He's doing it for personal gain, clicks, donations. He doesn't have evidence. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

It's the difference between having a gut feeling and having reason. Hikaru doesn't have reason to believe Hans is cheating over the board right now, especially with enhanced security. But he doesn't want to back down, so he's just saying everything Hans does is evidence of cheating whether it be him playing good moves or bad moves.

When everything, no matter what it is, fits only one conclusion, maybe the conclusion is forced.

This person isn't a grandmaster purely because all they do is cheat. This guy is genuinely talented at chess. It's why in other sports when cheating happens, the person doing the cheating is usually a very talented person all on their own. Football players who use substances, or get info about the other team's plays, or what have you. Speedrunners online who are genuinely good and then cheat to get a world record that would otherwise take them 10,000 more hours of streaming.

That kind of deal.

Hans without cheating could easily wipe the floor with all of us scrubs talking about him. The theory is he's cheating so that he can get his ELO rating up, get invited to more tournaments, and win cash prizes. One doesn't sustain a chess career by being a player that never wins cash prizes.

He's definitely cheated during tournaments that had prizes before, according to chess.com.

Beating Carlsen over the board means more media attention, more tournament invites, more chances to win cash prizes. There's an incentive for him to try to speed up his ascension.

But, if you look at games where he probably isn't cheating and simply throw spaghetti at the wall and say this is why he's still cheating, by the way, donate now, give me bits, give me views, subscribe to my channel, that's not being an impartial investigator.

And it's really irresponsible to make unfounded allegations public, repeat them over and over again, until people think it is the truth, when there's no facts behind it.

Not to bring up real world events, but that's the same behavior that led some people to turn to violence over an election. Just lying to them over and over, forcing a conclusion where the evidence doesn't fit and in fact contradicts it, and that led to people dying.

Here, no one's dying, but Hikaru is profiting off of slander using unfounded allegations.

I tore Magnus one for naming Hans without proof. What Hikaru is doing is a thousand times worse. He's genuinely being a very bad person right now.

No offense to anyone here if you're a fan of Hikaru or disagree with me that what he's doing is wrong. I don't want to make it personal or contentious between us. I just want to underscore how grossly irresponsible Hikaru is being and how immoral it is what he's doing.

He's going to get away with it because Hans cheated in the past. But if I took someone fresh out of prison on a marijuana possession and accused them of trafficking meth, on zero evidence, and asked people to donate to me so I could keep "catching criminals", I'd be a genuinely sick individual.

I hope we can agree on this much.
 
^ +1
I also didn't like how (imho) Hikaru at the start of the video feigns caring about Hans possibly (in Hikaru's view) not being invited to many future tournaments because he refuses to analyze his games. Supposedly because this means less people get interested in chess. Then again, as he very well knows, more (non chess-playing, granted :D ) people tuned in now with all this, than would to watch a player analyze his moves. I didn't like the sarcastic (likely) or at any rate feigned/fake care and the implied wish that Hans gets pushed aside in that way.
 
^ +1
I also didn't like how (imho) Hikaru at the start of the video feigns caring about Hans possibly (in Hikaru's view) not being invited to many future tournaments because he refuses to analyze his games. Supposedly because this means less people get interested in chess. Then again, as he very well knows, more (non chess-playing, granted :D ) people tuned in now with all this, than would to watch a player analyze his moves. I didn't like the sarcastic (likely) or at any rate feigned/fake care and the implied wish that Hans gets pushed aside in that way.
It seems vaguely relevant that I think it is bad that you effectively cannot be a professional tennis player if you cannot handle doing after match interviews.
 
Objective proof? no. Combine his lack of understanding with a history of cheating, though, and Occam’s razor shifts strongly towards cheater rather than new GOAT player.
his performance isn't goat player regardless. could be bad at explaining generally, or that he just got lucky in the game in question (quite likely, magnus was below his normal standard in that game).

Yeah if you can't explain why you did what you did there's a good chance it wasn't you doing it.
lol, that's a nice way to show the absurdity of the "he must have cheated otb" being presented right now for sure.

He also says that Magnus announced he won't play again in a tournament with Hans. Which brings the inevitable question: should such be possible as open blackmail of tournaments? (and with no repercussions).
unless chess players are under contract to appear at tournaments, they can decline for any reason, even random/personal/petty/etc ones. like if magnus refused to play in a tournament so he could go back to his gameboy and wake the windfish instead, that's probably okay as long as it's not one he already agreed to play in with sponsors/agreements/etc?

the real question is whether tournaments should take such a boycott seriously, and the answer is no, they should not. if they do, they are punishing someone w/o any new evidence and encouraging future "in group" type behavior in what is ostensibly a competition about skill. the mechanism by which that hurts the game is different from cheating, but it nevertheless hurts it.

edit: several youtubers for chess squeeze every bit of value they can from drama, like trying to fill a cup with a damp rag. they aren't all like that (rosen's "drama" with caruana not playing stafford was just amusing), but a lot of this conduct is the kind of view-chasing that makes other types of youtube content grating at times as well.
 
@Askthepizzaguy and @Moriarte Thanks for bring real chess knowledge to this thread. You both keep it from just being a thread about the Kardashians. :)
 
I am happy with my thread; almost everyone seems to be having fun. It's why I made it this way, and people participate freely and with some good will one can pick up something of interest. If I wanted to present my own intellectualism (by now imo not really a good idea for an own thread), I'd have picked something from my uni studies or professional work, not chess.
Besides, already in the first sentence of the OP anyone can read I made this specifically so as to be more generally about the chess world atm, and not cored on chess theory. It works fine as it is and I look forward to more nice discussion :love:
 
This person isn't a grandmaster purely because all they do is cheat. This guy is genuinely talented at chess
No one's saying that. I saw the kid giving 1 to 5 blitz odds before he was even IM

But being run of the mill GM level and being world class are light years away.

It's similar to body builders who take steroids. Obviously they still work crazy hard. Some random schmo who took gear and never worked out would look skinnier than me.

The better you are the harder it is to catch you if you cheat. Most of the players caught are like the guy below who jump from being class players to IM or GM strength over the course of a year or two.

lol, that's a nice way to show the absurdity of the "he must have cheated otb" being presented right now for sure
It's not definitive but if you refuse to analyze its suspicious.

I know another guy went from 1900 to 2450 uscf over only two years. After beating a super GM he was subjected to more security. He had very weird thick sunglasses it was speculated contained a computer but after this win he stopped wearing them. He lost his next game in 17 moves. He also stopped doing post-mortems as he 'improved'.

Sadly I think he ended up committing suicde.
 
No one's saying that. I saw the kid giving 1 to 5 blitz odds before he was even IM

But being run of the mill GM level and being world class are light years away.


It's not definitive but if you refuse to analyze its suspicious.

I know another guy went from 1900 to 2450 uscf over only two years. After beating a super GM he was subjected to more security. He had very weird thick sunglasses it was speculated contained a computer but after this win he stopped wearing them. He lost his next game in 17 moves. He also stopped doing post-mortems as he 'improved'.

Sadly I think he ended up committing suicde.
Is there no case of Hans giving some (adequate for his level) analysis?
Atm it wouldn't be out of the question that he doesn't feel like or (also very possible) just wants to troll and play the villain.

It is quite interesting that he is handling it so calmly, I got to say. Then again he is 19 - he might be feeling very differently and not showing it.
 
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