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[Lanzelot]

I'm good to go if/when you all give the word.

One more point that just crossed my mind: if we want to "impress" the AI militarily (which we need to when doing a min run on Republic, if we want to avoid unwanted sneak-attacks and tribute demands), then two warriors are better than one archer.
Here's the resaon: the formula for calculating military power goes like this:
(2xA + D) x HP
So a vet Archer gives (2x2 + 1) x 4 = 20 points. A vet warrior gives (2x1 + 1)x4 = 12 points! So two warriors contribute 24 points. Also: the two warriors provide twice as much mil pol, so they speed up our research, and later they can be upgraded to swordsmen, while archers are basically a "dead end" (Invention will come very late, as of course we need to go for Education/Universities first).

Ah, and I agree: the barracks in K'stadt can be sold immediately.

 

[Lanzelot]

I knew I forgot something. That taxman was made to save shields on something and I forgot to place him back to work.

Some advice on this:
a) In general, using a specialist in the early game is very bad. The lost food/growth is a serious drawback. Better have a shield or two overrun, than losing that precious food.
b) If you really, really have to use a specialist, then of course use a scientist, not a taxman! It provides 33% more income and would perhaps have sped up the current research project by a turn or two (with some additional MM here and there), while the extra gold in most cases can not be used during Despotism.

 

[tjs282]

• The most important task during your turnset should probably be to get Oasenstadt to size 6 quickly. (Use 2 floodplains at size 2 for growth in 5T and 3 floodplains afterwards for growth in 4T). While growing back, it can produce 1-2 more units, then sell barracks and build granary. (Or maybe 3 units. But 5 would definitely delay the granary for too long! *snip*

• 
  Does that '1-2 more units' include the current Archer build? Assuming that I keep working the rmOasis for now, we'll finish the Archer just as O'stadt grows to Pop2 in 3 turns' time. But then using only the iFloodplains (i.e. 4 excessFPT at Pop2, 5 excessFPT at Pop3), by my count we'd only get 9 shields total during that time (1 SPT from the city tile), so we wouldn't even be able to build a single (vet)Warrior before we hit Pop4 -- unless there's some trick I need to know to magically acquire a 10th shield at some point?
  
  Here's a thought, although it would cost us an extra turn to Pop4. Once we hit Pop3, we'll have 5 shields in the bin, so I could then work 2 iFloodplains and 1 Oasis for 1 turn, getting us 4 food and 3 (more) shields stored, then put the Oasis labourer onto the third iFloodplain. We could build a Warrior on the third turn after growth (I'd then sell the Barracks and start on the Granary), with 19 food and 1 new shield stored on the 4th turn. For the 5th turn, when O'stadt is due to grow to Pop4, I could reassign citizens to avoid food overrun and maximise shield income (should be able to get at least 4, leaving 55 to go, right?).
  
  By that point, I should also have irrigated at least 2 Plains around K'stadt and H'burg, so I would then be able to use one or both the Oases for O'stadt's Granary: 2 iFloods and 2 mOases (plus the city tile) would give 4 excess FPT and 5 SPT, so by the time O'stadt reaches Pop5 (5 turns), we would still need 30 shields for the Granary, if I've worked this out correctly? (Or I could build a Settler and start at Pop3 again?) And when we reach Pop6... I think I'm going to need help to figure out how to set up this settler-factory, because my brain hurts...
  
  Or should I just sell the Barracks as soon as we have the Archer, and start on the Granary without building a Warrior? Yeah, that'll be easier, I'll do that
  
  

  [*]How to deal with Konigsberg: just rename it to "Königsberg"...

  Yeah, I noticed that too -- in my earlier post I kept typing 'Koenigsberg' without thinking...
  
  

  We'll live with it at the current site, it's not that bad, we'll probably be able to get all first-ring cities to size 12 anyway

  Even with City4 in its planned position? Or should we move City4 1NE?
  
  

  • I like 8 better at it's original location, especially with Königsberg now 1 tile further east. From the original site it has access to the second bananas, which it wouldn't have in your dotmap!

  I realise that -- but if we place it in your Spot8 to start with, it probably won't have access to either of the bananas -- or the fish -- until it builds a library (or we build a second ring city further out -- if we still can!). And until the jungle is cleared, it will grow verrrrrry sloooooowwly, with only 1 SPT until the cleared grassland is mined (because there never seems to be much BGrass under Jungles).
  
  (Personal Civ-gripe: I think that Jungles should clear (also) to Plains, not (just) Grassland -- that bugged me in CivDOS, too. I mean, look at the Amazon Basin -- the rainforest gets cut down for fast-food cattle farming, but the cleared land is nearly useless within a couple of years. But I digress...).
  
  Also, both your and my Spot8s are distance 6(.5) from O'stadt, and you objected to the outermost spots for the Copenhagen-flipper being too corrupt -- but they're only distance 5(.5)
  (R (or G): "Consistency is all I seek"/ G (or R): "Give us this day, our daily... week?")
  
  

  • *snip* ... But that also depends on whether we have access to iron or horses.

  That's a big 'if'! And what do you want to bet that Copenhagen turns out to have been built on an Iron deposit...?
  
  

  • As for pressuring Copenhagen, I like the nearest of the three spots best *snip*

  Even though it will annoy the Vikings?
  
  Whoops, thinking/typing that all out took way too long...

 

[Lanzelot]

But then using only the iFloodplains (i.e. 4 excessFPT at Pop2, 5 excessFPT at Pop3), by my count we'd only get 9 shields total during that time (1 SPT from the city tile), so we wouldn't even be able to build a single (vet)Warrior before we hit Pop4 -- unless there's some trick I need to know to magically acquire a 10th shield at some point?

Don't forget the 2 extra shields from the forest "on growth"! So the 9 turns you need from size 2 to size 4 will give you 13 shields, not 9.

And once you hit size 7, you can slow down growth by using let's say a forest and a hill instead of 2 floodplains. (This is, what I did in the "reference game" while building the granary. Got the gran done quickly, and growing beyond size 7 is not really useful anyway, as it costs too much food.)

Try it out: that way the gran can be finished in time, without having to take shields away from the Colossus.

I think I'm going to need help to figure out how to set up this settler-factory, because my brain hurts...

Mine too... I have been thinking about it for weeks, but couldn't find a solution. It appears we are 2 shields short for the perfect 4-turner:
T1: 3 floodplains, 2 mined oasis, city center: 5s
T2: same as T1 plus forest on growth: 7s
T3: 3 floodplains, 2 mined oasis, mined sugar, city center: 7s
T4: same as T3 plus forest on growth: 9s
5 + 7 + 7 + 9 = 28

So the best I could come up with so far, is a 5-turner with "artificially" slowing down growth in the second half. But that wastes a few shields in each cycle:

T1 (5f): 3 floodplains, 1 mined oasis, 1 irrigated plain, city center: 4s
T2 (5f): same as T1 plus forest on growth: 6s
T3 (3f): 1 floodplain, 1 mined oasis, 4 irrigated plains, city center: 7s
T4 (3f): same as T3: 7s
T5 (4f): 2 floodplains, 1 mined oasis, 3 irrigated plains, city center plus forest on growth: 8s
4 + 6 + 7 + 7 + 8 = 32

Unfortunately the mined oasis cannot be given to another town for two turns, as no other town is close enough. And also, of the two floodplains which are not needed during the second half, only one can be given to spot "4".

Or should I just sell the Barracks as soon as we have the Archer, and start on the Granary without building a Warrior? Yeah, that'll be easier, I'll do that

At least one more warrior before the gran should be ok.

I realise that -- but if we place it in your Spot8 to start with, it probably won't have access to either of the bananas -- or the fish -- until it builds a library (or we build a second ring city further out -- if we still can!). And until the jungle is cleared, it will grow verrrrrry sloooooowwly, with only 1 SPT until the cleared grassland is mined (because there never seems to be much BGrass under Jungles).

Also, both your and my Spot8s are distance 6(.5) from O'stadt, and you objected to the outermost spots for the Copenhagen-flipper being too corrupt -- but they're only distance 5(.5)
(R (or G): "Consistency is all I seek"/ G (or R): "Give us this day, our daily... week?")

In most cases, being able to build a harbor out-weighs the disadvantage of +1 distance. But you know what? Now that Königsberg was "accidentally" placed on the wrong square, why not go back to the "original original" location of 8? I mean the inland one at distance 4. That leaves enough space for a second ring city by the fish! Ok, in order to make it clearer, I finally took the time to work out a detailed food distribution map. As you can see, with the following city sites it is possible to give each city 12 tiles with exactly 24 food:



The yellow dot would be the first second ring city. The only thing I don't like about that spot, is that it has only 11 tiles and too much food... But it's only second-ring, so may be ok that way.

Even though it will annoy the Vikings?

If we go for a min run on Republic, we'll have early cash for embassies. That'll make them polite again.

 

[tjs282]

...unless there's some trick I need to know to magically acquire a 10th shield at some point?

Never mind -- I just (re-)located and (re-)read RFHolloway's article about settler factories in the War Academy. I knew I'd seen that info somewhere...

If I understood it right (and it hasn't been invalidated by a subsequent patch), setting the city governor to 'emphasise production' (but not 'manage moods'), should give me those magical extra shields (2, from the Oasis) during the IBT after each 'city growth' turn so all this:

Here's a thought, although it would cost us an extra turn to Pop4. Once we hit Pop3, we'll have 5 shields in the bin, so I could then work 2 iFloodplains and 1 Oasis for 1 turn, getting us 4 food and 3 (more) shields stored, then put the Oasis labourer onto the third iFloodplain ...

... won't be necessary after all -- I just have to remember to switch the new citizen back to the iFlood on the next turn after growth... That way, I'll finish that hypothetical Warrior 1 turn after growth to Pop3, and will get 3(+2) shields into the Granary as O'stadt gets to Pop4.

And then using 2iFlood and 2 mOasis will get 4 FPT and 5 SPT (plus another 2 SPT on the IBT?) over the next 5 turns to Pop 6, at which point presumably I need to stop growth, maximise shields to finish the Granary and start building a Settler. Once O'stadt is back down to Pop4, I then rearrange worked tiles for a 5-turn(?) Settler factory. Not sure how I'm going to do that yet, my brain is starting to hurt again...

But it's just occurred to me that I'll probably have finished my turns by then anyway, so Choxorn will get the headache instead

EDIT: Whoops, crosspost! You weren't here when I started writing that lot, Lanzelot!

Re. your food map -- presumably we are going to mine all those 1-food plains tiles?

 

[Lanzelot]

EDIT: Whoops, crosspost! You weren't here when I started writing that lot, Lanzelot!

In fact I was here all the time... It only took me 2 hours to work out that food distribution, so I guess I pressed the Submit button just a minute before you...

Yes, plains with a "1" are to be mined instead of irrigated. But only at a later time, when the cities are ready for size 12. In the beginning of course "food is everything".

By the way, the map still needs "refinement", once we see the actual shield output of each city. So perhaps Hamburg and "6" need to swap a few coasts for plains to get a magic shield number. And of course at the moment Oasenstadt will have 19spt... We'll swap one of the plains for Hamburg's oasis to get that to 20spt. But things like these can be done, when we get there... For now I was only concerned about whether all cities can sustain 12 citizens.

 

[tjs282]

It's ~9:30 am (do you know where your citizens are?).

If no-one (else) has anything to add to what's been planned/posted so far (and assuming my wife has no objections either ), I think I'll start playing my turnset at ~9:00 this evening, after my boys are in bed. I'll check in here first though...

I'm thinking I'll play 10 turns, and then post a turnlog -- which should take awhile, so expect it around midnight...

 

[Lanzelot]

Once O'stadt is back down to Pop4,

Don't drop it down to 4... Just let it hit size 7 while building the granary, and then the first settler after the gran can also be built at full speed, dropping O'stadt from 7 to 5, upon which it will already be right where you need it to start the 5-turner cycle!

(I just tested it yesterday, because I was myself not quite sure anymore, how dropping from 7+ to below 7 works. I remembered it to have some negative impact. But it was ok: when the city has a granary, 10f are retained in the food-box! Only if the city does not have a granary, the food-box is emptied upon shrinking below 7.)

BTW: we need more workers...
Perhaps it is a good idea, to first build a 2-turn worker from the capital at size 5-6 (after the granary + the initial settler to drop to 5)? If not enough plains are irrigated yet for the above out-lined 5-turn cycle, we could even build two workers before starting on settlers. (But I don't remember from the top of my head: when will Königsberg hit size 4? Perhaps it can already produce a worker soon?)

PS: I just recognize in my screenshot above: Königsberg is currently building a worker at size 1... Change that to warrior. Don't build any worker there before size 4: we need Königsberg to be able to use all 3 floodplains and a hill, before it can build workers at a sufficient speed. (+4fpt and 2spt give 20f and 10s in 5 turns, just perfect for endless worker-production.) Unfortunately, unfortunately I just realize: at it's current location it will never be able to act as the planned 2-turner!! (Unless we find a BG under the jungle )

 

[Lanzelot]

at it's current location it will never be able to act as the planned 2-turner!! (Unless we find a BG under the jungle )

Well, "never" of course means "during Despotism". In Republic it's not a problem.

 

[CommandoBob]

Sorry for being out of the loop. I need to go back and re-read/re-study what has gone on so far. This inital starting discussion and planning reminds me very much of my first Succession Game of the Month, SGOTM 9, way back when. I had been playing around at Civ3 on Chieftain; that was my first game at Monarch (PTW).

At the moment I am up in LK151 and that will keep me busy for a few more days.

Then I guess the best idea is to just scrap the game, take me off the roster, and I'll just lurk through the thread for educational purposes.

Nope.



Nottagonnahappen.

Mistakes happen; learn from them. I've made them here in the forum.

Well, I guess it depends on what the intention of most of the team members is: if you just want to manage your first ever space-ship win on Emperor, we can play on. But if you are trying for a good date, we should restart (or rewind to turn 40).

I'm fine with what the majority wants. Rewinding indeed feels like cheating, but I think in a case where one player overrules several important strategic decisions without consulting the rest of the team, this would be justified? And I think we can learn the most from rewinding. (Especially about the early setup phase of an empire.)

I am sorta split on this. I see the advantage of 'SuckItUpAndLearnFromYourMistakes'; in fact I tend to favor that line of thinking. However, rewinding has advantages, too.

We are only 60 turns into this game. It is still winnable. Clunky and ugly, perhaps, but winnable.

While I am not quite endorsing a rewind, I do have a question.

What would we do if we, um...well..., 'lost' the last two saves?

 

[Lanzelot]

What would we do if we, um...well..., 'lost' the last two saves?

In the "first round" we are playing 20 turn turnsets. So we would only have to 'lose' one save...

 

[Northern Pike]

{delurk}

I think your present difficulties sum up why the traditional arrangement of twenty turns for the first player, but strictly ten-turn rounds thereafter, is wiser than what you're doing here. There may not be many units to move in turns 20-80, but there are constant decisions to make that affect the whole later shape of the game, and a fortiori of a space race. A player shouldn't have to make that many choices without fresh input from teammates who are looking at the present position.

{lurk}

 

[CommandoBob]

In the "first round" we are playing 20 turn turnsets. So we would only have to 'lose' one save...

True, but the last 20 turns were played in sets of 10.

 

[tjs282]

Well folks, I only played 5 turns so far, because I was documenting everything, and it all took longer than I thought it would. Also, I spent a long time fiddling around at the beginning, to optimise MRG's posted savegame before I (worked up the nerve to) hit the end of turn button for the first time.

CivAssistII crashed on me once.

I hope you'll like what I've done with the place... Here's the turnlog so far...

Spoiler :

1500 BC: Turn 60

CA II says:
English have CB, IW(!), Mason, Wheel
Vikings have CB, Map
O'stadt has -1gpt deficit

Citizen assignments/city status:
O'stadt -- Pop1 -- iFlood (+1spt, +3fpt, Tax.Sci.Lux=0.3.1); growth in 2 turns; building (vet)Archer (now 12 shields, 14+2s at growth, finish in 2 more turns at Pop2)
H'burg -- Pop3 -- mOasis, iFlood, Clown (oops!) (+3spt, +1fpt, Tax.Sci.Lux=0.3.2); growth in 19 turns; switched build to (reg)Warrior (will build in 3 turns, needs MM)
K'stadt -- Pop3 -- iRivPl, mRivSugPl, Coast (+3spt, +1fpt, Tax.Sci.Lux=0.3.2); growth in 18 turns; building Colossus (43 shields, built in <53> turns)
K'berg -- Pop1 -- iFlood (+1spt, +3fpt, Tax.Sci.Lux.Corr=0.2.1.-1); will grow in 4 turns, with 1f overrun (needs MM); switched build to (reg)Warrior (will build in 6-7 turns)

Unit orders:
Exploring Warriors -- Moved. Next job: Bring both(?) home for MilPol in new cities
Workers -- Both currently irrigating Flood 1S-1SE of Oasenstadt, will be finished in 1 turn. Next job (depending on what foreign Warriors do): move to EITHER Flood 2NE of current position (go via K'berg!) OR Plains 1W
Curraghs -- Moved: Next job: 1 moves further north and the other needs to go south

Policy:
Barracks in K'stadt sold, Lux=30%, Sci=70%, -1gpt income (43 gold in treasury, incl. 5 gold from Barracks sale), still 5 turns to Philo.
Moved Spearman out of K'stadt towards O'stadt: 1 citizen now unhappy, no disorder yet -- but will need MilPol ASAP for more productivity.

IBT:
English warrior moves 1NE -- phew!
Viking warrior moves 1SE -- phew!

1475 BC: Turn 61

CA II says:
No change

Citizen assignments/city status:
Hamburg: Moved Warrior to K'stadt; now 2 unhappy citizens -- 1 unhappy citizen reassigned as Scientist, still 3 turns to Warrior
K'stadt: Citizen moved from Coast to RivFor (+5spt, +1fpt, Tax.Sci.Lux.Corr=0.4.1.-2); now 31 turns to Colossus
K'berg: Citizen moved to new iFlood at 1W
O'stadt: No change, will grow on IBT

Unit orders:
(reg)Spear (from K'stadt) -- fortified in O'stadt
Workers -- Moved to unimproved Flood 2NE, will start irrigation/road next turn
Curraghs -- northern moved 1N, 1NW, southern ordered to exit lagoon
Exploring Warriors -- northern instructed to return south, southern moved 1SE to mountain -- found SE end of continent(?)

Policy:
No change

IBT:
English warrior moves 1N
Viking warrior moves 1S -- now adjacent to Workers!

1450 BC: Turn 62

CA II says:
No change

Citizen assignments/city status:
Hamburg: Same tiles worked, Tax.Sci.Lux=0.6.1; now 2 turns to Warrior
K'stadt: Same tiles worked, Tax.Sci.Lux.Corr=0.4.1.-2; now 30 turns to Colossus
K'berg: Same tiles worked (growth in 2 turns -- needs MM to max. shields); now 5 turns to Warrior
O'stadt: Growth to Pop2, new citizen reassigned from mOasis to iFlood (next growth in 5 turns), 4 turns to Archer, Cultural expansion (Viking Warrior now within our borders)

Unit orders:
Workers -- Begin irrigating Flood (done in 2 turns)
Curraghs -- northern moved 1N-1E, southern still in transit ...
Exploring Warriors -- northern in transit, southern instructed to head west

Policy:
Lux=20%, Sci=70%, Philo in 2 turns, Ragnar annoyed, so gifted 10 gold (=> cautious) and asked him politely to remove his people. He said, 'Yeah, yeah, whatever...'

IBT:
English Warrior moves 1NW
Viking Warrior moves 1W, outside borders and away from Workers -- phew!

1425 BC: Turn 63

CA II says:
Production overrun in Hamburg

Citizen assignments/city status:
Hamburg: Citzens reassigned: 2 x Coast, 1 x iFlood (+1spt, +1fpt, Tax.Sci.Lux=1.3.2.-1); growth in 16 turns; 1 turn to Warrior without overrun
K'stadt: Same tiles worked, Tax.Sci.Lux.Corr=0.4.1.-2; now 29 turns to Colossus
K'berg: Citizen reassigned to rRivHill (+2spt, +1fpt, growth in 2 turns); now 2 turns to Warrior
O'stadt: 2x iFlood (+4fpt, +1spt, growth in 4 turns), 3 turns to Archer

Unit orders:
Workers -- Still irrigating Flood (done in 1 turns)
Curraghs -- northern moved 2N, southern moves out of lagoon
Exploring Warriors -- northern in transit, southern in transit

Policy:
Lux=30% (to keep Hamburg from rioting before Warrior is built -- might not be necessary, but didn't want to risk it), Sci=70%, deficit of -1gpt, Philo in 1 turn

IBT:
Both foreign warriors move out of sight. We get Philosophy (yay!), choose Code of Laws as Free Tech (can you believe that Egghead wanted CB instead?), and Republic as next tech. No SGL, unfortunately.

1400 BC: Turn 64

CA II says:
We can sell both our new techs to Liz and Ragnar!

Citizen assignments/city status:
Hamburg: Warrior built; Citizens reassigned: mOasis, iFlood, Plains (+4spt, +2fpt, Tax.Sci.Lux=3.0.1); growth in 8 turns; production set to Barracks (build in 5 turns)
K'stadt: Same tiles worked, Tax.Sci.Lux.Corr=0.4.1.-2; now 29 turns to Colossus
K'berg: Same tile worked (growth in 1 turn); now 1 turn to Warrior
O'stadt: Same tiles worked (growth in 3 turns), 2 turns to Archer

Unit orders:
Workers -- Flood irrigated (last one!); 1 Worker set to build road (3 turns), 1 moved back towards O'stadt -- will go to Hamburg to irrigate Plains (to free up Hamburg's iFlood for O'stadt)
Curraghs -- northern moved 1NW-1Nspots what looks like the NW end of our continent, southern moved 4W from lagoon inlet, discovers 2 x Whales in Sea, accessible from Hill next to BGrass -- I want a city on this hill!
Exploring Warriors -- northern in transit, southern moves 1NW

Policy:
Lux=20%, Sci=10%, income +12gpt, Republic in 50 turns (100% science only reduced this to 45 turns, so didn't see the point of allocating more -- suggest to use Scientist(s) to speed things up, at least until Libs are built)
Liz (cautious) had more techs, so I contacted her first and traded Code of Laws for Iron Working. Then got Wheel, Masonry, and CB for Philo and 29 gold as a second deal. Now she's polite. Then I went to Ragnar and offered CoL and Philo for Maps (the other tech they both had) and the 10 gold that I gifted him a couple of turns back. Now he's polite too, and we have IW and he doesn't Unfortunately, we don't have Iron, but he does -- in the mountains NW of Copenhagen (whaddiditellya? ). I think an Archer rush might be in order...

I didn't do exactly what I said I would regarding O'stadt. Since the Warriors turned out not to be a threat, I decided that growth in 2 turns was better than growth in 3 turns (like Lanzelot asked), so the Archer isn't actually done yet (but will be soon).

And if that turnlog wasn't enough information I can post the 'pre-end of turn' 1400 BC save (or screenshots) for anyone who is interested. But not tonight Otherwise, if you're all OK with what I've done so far, I'll carry on tomorrow.

 

[choxorn]

Look around a bit, there might be a random iron hill or mountain somewhere in the fog to the south of us, but yeah, we're probably going to need to fight the Vikings at some point.

Do we at least have Horses somewhere?

 

[tjs282]

Choxorn, I really only searched for Iron so far, and only in the vicinity of our core -- and Copenhagen's mountain was the only one I found. There may well be Iron elsewhere (maybe inland on the southern peninsula, SW of Spot7 -- lot of hills there), but if so, we won't be able to get to it for a (long) while yet.

As for Horses, I'm not sure. I don't remember seeing any on the unoccupied tiles, but I wasn't specifically looking for them (and it was 1:30 am!), so it's quite possible that I overlooked one somewhere (fingers crossed). Also, although I was doing the Iron-search on a 'clean' map, it wasn't completely clear: at some point in an earlier solo game, I'd mistyped, accidentally brought up the clean-map options menu, and then checked the 'show cities' option on there, so all the terrain under city-tiles was hidden. I checked the Hills under Konigsberg for Iron, but not the terrain under any of the other cities (and I didn't get a 'Workers have completed a road to bring Horses...' message). So there's a very slim possibility that there are Horses under one of the Viking cities (or in their fog-- the northern Warrior will do some Viking fogbusting on his way home).

I couldn't remember what key-combo I hit to get the map options menu, and it's not listed in my Conquests cheat-sheet. I found a post on here that said to use CTRL+SHIFT+N, but I tried that from the main screen and it didn't seem to work -- do I have to clean the map first, then use it? Or can I adjust those options in the .ini file?

EDIT/UPDATE:
OK, CTRL+SHIFT+N does work AND... WE HAVE HORSES UNDER KOLOSSUSSTADT! There is also an unclaimed (so far) Iron resource on the lone mountain 4SE-1S from Konigsberg! (4SW from Bergen). But it will take a long time to get out there to build a colony (would have to road 2 Hills, 1 Grass, and 1 Jungle from K'berg) -- possibly not worth it until (1) City4 is built and/or (2) we have workers to waste...
Priority now is to get Hamburg's Barracks built (and its tiles improved) ASAP, so we can start churning out vet Warriors, Archers(?), and later Horsemen (I think not Chariots though, seeing as I can build 2 Warriors for the same 20 shields?)
The English have an Iron on the Hill 1N from York -- last time our Warrior passed that way, that tile had not yet been roaded, but I'll check again on the way back (re. an earlier post, I got it wrong -- Hastings is on the coast, not York).

 

[Lanzelot]

Just use CivAsistII, it shows all resources under "Miscellaneous".

 

[tjs282]

OK, this turnlog is slightly more abbreviated (but it's more turns). I got a little flippant towards the end, sorry

Spoiler :

1375 BC: Turn 65

IBT:
K'berg grows to Pop2, builds reg Warrior

City update:
K'berg: Both citizens reassigned to iFloodplain (+4fpt, growth in 5turns), build order set to Warrior again (10 turns)

Unit orders:
Worker 1SE of O'stadt moved to Plains 1SE of Hamburg -- will start irrigation next turn
Southern Curragh moves 1SW-1S, northern Curragh moves 2N

Policy:
Lux=20%, Sci=10%, treasury 23 g, net income +13gpt, Republic in 49 turns

1350 BC: Turn 66

IBT:
O'stadt builds vet Archer

CAII says:
English discover Mysticism

City update:
O'stadt: production set to Warrior (should build in 6 turns, with IBT shields on growth to Pop3 in 1 turn and Pop4 in another 4 turns)

Unit orders:
Hamburg's worker starts irrigation
Southern Curragh moves 1S-1SE, northern Curragh moves 2N
Southern Warrior moves 1W to mountain, peeks over border of fogged English tundra-town on riverbank 1S-2SW

Policy:
Lux=20%, Sci=10%, treasury 36g, net income +13gpt, Republic in 48 turns
Liz won't sell Mysticism, but Ragnar can't afford it either (he's broke). Liz does have Iron hooked up somewhere, because 'Iron (0)' showed up in her 'Resources' list

1325 BC: Turn 67

IBT:
O'stadt grows to Pop3, K'berg's worker finished iFlood road

City update:
O'stadt: Citizens working 2x riFlood, rmOasis (+5fpt, +3spt -- growth in 5 turns), build switched to Archer, because working this tileset should complete it on growth to Pop4, _if_ Governor adds new citizen to Forest (3 shields already in box, 5x3 + 2 needed). Will then start Granary or Settler, depending on advice

Unit orders:
K'berg's worker moves towards H'burg to assist with irrigation/roads (to free up iFlood for O'stadt)
Northern Warrior arrived at Reykjavik's border, now moves 1SW
Southern Curragh moves 1SW-1S, northern Curragh moves 1W-1N, to just off north-western tip of our continent
Southern Warrior instructed to move 2W to RivGoldHIlls 2SE of York

Policy:
Lux=20%, Sci=10%, treasury 49g, net income +13gpt, Republic in 47 turns
DAMMIT! Just noticed that Oslo has been founded 1S of the southern Iron-mountain! Ragnar still doesn't have IW though (and Liz still won't sell us Myst).
Since we are making a fair bit of gpt and had some spare cash, I built an embassy in Trondheim for 32g (would have been 45g for London), partly to bust fog -- it's currently on Pop2, and the next Settler is already completed -- and partly to set up diplomatic relations (we may soon need to bribe the Vikings to fight the English).

1300 BC: Turn 68

IBT:
Spot English Warrior again, heading towards NW coast

Unit orders:
Second worker arrives at Plains 1SE of H'burg -- will begin road next turn
Northern Warrior moves 1S, inside Reykjavik's border (he'll leave next turn!). Reyk guarded by reg Spear.
Southern Curragh moves 2S
Northern Curragh moves 1N-1E
Southern Warrior arrives at RivGoldHIlls 2SE of York

Policy:
Lux=20%, Sci=10%, treasury 30g, net income +13gpt, Republic in 46 turns

1275 BC: Turn 69

IBT:
Ragnar politely invites us to "Gerroff his land!" I agree.
Southern Warrior passed by English Warrior+Settler pair, heading east from York -- most likely towards the Horse or the Iron out on the southeastern peninsula.

Unit orders:
Second worker begins road (irrigation will complete in 1 turn, then that worker will help finish the road in 1 more turn. Neat eh? You might almost think I'd planned it... )
Northern Warrior moves 1S, outside Reykjavik's border again. Everyone breathes a sigh of relief.
Southern Warrior sent 2W towards mountain just inside London's border -- now 1S of York (also guarded by reg Spear)
Northern Curragh moves 1E-1SE, rounding the tip of our continent
Southern Curragh moves 1S-1SW

1250 BC: Turn 70

IBT:
Lizz also says 'Get orf my land!' and is now cautious (the English fear our Archer -- all one of them!). Gifted 10g to make her sweet again.
Vikings have begun Mausoleum -- in Bergen! (which has 1 Forest tile, and a whole bunch of Jungle/Marsh -- silly Ragnar) (English are building Pyramids in London).
K'berg grows to Pop3

City update:
Hamburg will grow next turn, wasting 1f -- but no real alternative if Warrior is to be finished on the IBT.
K'stadt's worker moved from RivFor to Coast, to allow H'burg access to the Forest on the IBT -- should build Warrior on growth to Pop4, so will not suffer disorder. All citizens will need to be reassigned next turn.
K'berg's new citizen has been placed on O'stadt's iFlood (+5fpt, +1spt), but I'll leave it there since this gives growth (to Pop4) in 4 turns, just in time to finish a new Warrior (currently 5 shields in box, needs 4x1 + 1). Then I'll build ... another worker?

Unit orders:
Northern Warrior moves 1S to Trondheim's border -- there is a Viking Worker 1E, I guess building a road to Reykjavik. Tempting, but we're nowhere near ready to start a war yet...
Northern Curragh moves 1E-1SE
Southern Curragh moves 2S
Southern Warrior reaches the lonely mountain (but no sign of Thorin and co!). Will move outside border next turn

I'm also posting some screenshots of the English and Viking empires thus far (sort of). Again, there is a pre end-of-turn savegame if anyone is interested (or if we decide to go to 10-turn sets already).

And now it's way past my bedtime again I may not be 100% functional tomorrow...

 

[Lanzelot]

• Bergen building the Mausoleum is not to be taken too lightly! It's on the river, has some plains and a lux, so can grow a bit and get quite decent production. And it's only 160 shields for the AI!
  On the other hand: wait a moment... Why don't we just let them complete it and then capture it, when we want our GA?!
• Don't worry about iron: the one at Copenhagen is ours, even without war. Just build a lib in spot 5 (and if necessary also a temple) and upon the first culture expansion, it's ours... So don't build archers. Warriors, warriors and warriors. (Unless we have horses somewhere within reach? But I guess not?!)

Edit: stupid me. Completely forgot that we have horses... Well, so, do we have the Wheel already? If not, I would say: warriors for now, and once we can buy the Wheel, chariots!

 

[tjs282]

• Bergen building the Mausoleum is not to be taken too lightly! It's on the river, has some plains and a lux, so can grow a bit and get quite decent production. And it's only 160 shields for the AI!

I'm not sure how big Bergen is at the moment, but until they have spent a lot of Worker-turns clearing all the wetlands, they only have 6 useful tiles so far (5 Plains, which will be irrigated because they have access to water, and 1 Forest). So even at Pop6, they're going to get 8spt at most, and can't build the Mausoleum in less than 18-20 turns (assuming the AI also gets the magical IBT shields), but it will probably be longer than that. And more to the point, Bergen won't be building units for all that time

• Don't worry about iron: the one at Copenhagen is ours, even without war. Just build a lib in spot 5 (and if necessary also a temple) and upon the first culture expansion, it's ours...

We've got CB but not Literacy yet -- and won't get it unless (1) the English research it soon and (2) Liz is willing to sell it to us.
Re. tech advances, I need clarification. Science spending is currently at 10%, and is putting a few bpt into Republic atm -- but would it be better to have it at 0% to earn more gpt, and use a Scientist(s) instead?

So don't build archers. Warriors, warriors and warriors. (Unless we have horses somewhere within reach? But I guess not?!)

Honestly Lanzelot, have you actually been reading my posts?

Edit: stupid me. Copletely forgot that we have horses... Well, so, do we have the Wheel already? If not, I would say: warriors for now, and once we can buy the Wheel, chariots!

OK, you do read my posts -- eventually Aaaand... you can't see Horses until you get the Wheel...

But... Chariots (A/D/M=1/1/2, Cost=20s)... really? No better than Warriors on attack/ defence, but cost twice as much/ take twice as long to build, and can't shelter on unroaded Mountains to boost their defence strength or get through unroaded Jungle? If you're sure about this, I can still switch the vet-Archer job in O'stadt to a vet-Chariot before I end the current turn -- it will complete on the IBT. But if you're planning to send them out on the warpath, I really hope the "Run away, run away!" functionality works better in Conquests than it does in Vanilla1.29 (where it's been nerfed all to heck), or we're not going to have (m)any Chariots left to upgrade as and when we finally buy/extort Horse Riding...

While we're discussing matters martial, off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure we're still under the 'free unit' limit -- which also includes Workers & Settlers, doesn't it? -- but if so, it can't be by much, and we won't be for much longer. IIRC, we were at 8/12 when I got MRG's save (3 Warriors, 1 Spear, 2 Curraghs, 2 Workers). I've built 3(?) MP Warriors and an intimidatory Archer since then, and another Archer/Chariot and 2 more Warriors are in progress (although one/both of those Warriors can still be changed to a Worker). Once it's founded, City 4 will extend the unit limit (to 15?) and I'm bringing back the north-exploring Warrior to guard it so I don't need to build any extra MP units yet. But first we have to found City4...

Which brings me to my next question, regarding O'stadt's next build: What should it be, and how fast should I aim to build it? The city will grow to Pop4 in 2 IBTs, with 3-4s already in the bin for whatever: a Warrior (or a Worker, or a Settler?) built at high-fpt/low-spt while O'stadt grows from Pop4 to Pop7 (12 turns at 5fpt, bearing in mind I will also need to keep those people happy in the meantime -- with Lux spending?); or I could sell off the Barracks straightaway and start on the Granary at higher-spt/2-4fpt, which will allow Choxorn to start churning out Settlers almost immediately on his turnset.