Melifluous
King
Thats a good point!
Can you get a Sci Leader from huts? Or is it just homegrown research?
Melifluous
AG3 - Ultra Big Map (Portugal - demigod)
- Thread starter Aggie
- Start date
- Status
Thats a good point!
Can you get a Sci Leader from huts? Or is it just homegrown research?
Melifluous
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
Some thoughts with the map.
With 512 max cities, and even with 20% landmass (I don't know the percentage so take the low end), each city gets average 51 tiles. This means CIVs will probably not be adjacent and that gives interesting challenge and opportunity in wars.
We probably want to abandon the city (forget the name) far away from our home, after we've reached the limit. We need to found another city at the same turn when we abandon it.
It also means we need a few settlers at hand any time, especially when we are at war or the AIs are at war. Put them at spots we wish to create cities. If we abandon any enemy cities, create one at the same turn. If AIs are at war, try to create a city every turn in case they raze cities among themselves.
We now also should start sending some units to fortify on resources where we couldn't create cities, so we can create colonies later.
EDIT: I established embassy with Iro. We may want to do more (we have the gold) after the expansion phase to know who is fighting with whom..
With 512 max cities, and even with 20% landmass (I don't know the percentage so take the low end), each city gets average 51 tiles. This means CIVs will probably not be adjacent and that gives interesting challenge and opportunity in wars.
We probably want to abandon the city (forget the name) far away from our home, after we've reached the limit. We need to found another city at the same turn when we abandon it.
It also means we need a few settlers at hand any time, especially when we are at war or the AIs are at war. Put them at spots we wish to create cities. If we abandon any enemy cities, create one at the same turn. If AIs are at war, try to create a city every turn in case they raze cities among themselves.
We now also should start sending some units to fortify on resources where we couldn't create cities, so we can create colonies later.
EDIT: I established embassy with Iro. We may want to do more (we have the gold) after the expansion phase to know who is fighting with whom..
Aggie
Deity
Those are excellent points microbe, worth mentioning here 
I got it and will play tomorrow.
microbe: I am feeling quite strongly about the distant city. Yes, it will be a corruption hellhole - but depending on the map it may save us ship moves of some 20 turns to and fro even in modern times! If we e.g. can connect it with rails and ROP our troops there, then ship them from that side of the cont to the east that may spped up a war by 20 turns 
So we should be VERY sure the city is useless before we abandon it!
So we should be VERY sure the city is useless before we abandon it!
Preturn: Its going to take a bit of time to adjust to the scale of this game. Our continent is BIG!
Given my understanding of the nature of the game, I switch Orpoto from a market to a granary. My reasoning is that we wan to grab towns now to raise our town count if nothing else. We can go back and build the market later.
Switch Lagos to a settler (from galley), and Leiria to the galley as the N side of our island is least explored.
Also switch Emertia to a warrior that I can put on the boat the so I can grab huts that I see or explore other islands across the water.
Also don't feel it is worth mining the mountain yet. That is 18 turns. We could build 3 mines in the same time in flat land which would be the same +1 shield. Since the worker started this turn, I wake him up.
Barbs are roaming and we are soon going to be in the middle ages? That will be fun.
I sell philosophy to the vikings and aztecs for a total of 144 gold. It is a known tech so giving to them for below price still seems worthwhile. We can always use the cash.
IBT: My first mistake is hitting end turn and expecting the computer to finish quickly. After about 10 seconds, I realize my error
Emeritia: Warrior->Temple
Oddly enough those deserts have sufficient Oasis that a town might be worthwhile. An oasis is as good as a BG.
1175 BC: Pop a hut and get construction. We are now in the Middle ages in 1175 BC! We have 50 turns to go on Repblic?? Interesting, our research on republic got reset when we switched ages. Since I think I read somewhere that huts only give you techs you don't have, I am going to switch to Monarchy to try to get republic from a hut. Can you get Middle age techs from huts?
Also I changed the spots of the settlers from the previous listed sites to get more of the bonus resources.
IBT:
Lisbon: Settler->Settler
Lagos: Settler->Barracks
Sao Paulo: Warrior->Spear
1150 BC: Pop another hut and get a town a town which I rename to Four Bananas. It is on the far side of the Mayans
IBT: Aztecs ask us to move. Ok
Leria: Galley->Settler
1125 BC: Build the city of Guarda. Get 50 gold from a hut With so much land and so many bonus resources, it is hard to chose spots for settlers.
IBT: We get the forbidden Palace message
Luanda: Warrior->Worker
1100 BC: We get region maps from a hut. Another hut discovered.
IBT: Sumeria completes Artemis.
Oporto: Granary-Settler
1075 BC: The city Castelo Branco is built.
IBT: Hittite complete the hanging gardens.
Vikings are building the great wall.
1050 BC: We gain 50 gold twice.
IBT:
Lisbon: Settler->Barracks
1025 BC: 50 gold again. Can you still gain techs when in the middle ages?
IBT:
1000 BC: Badajoz built. Spend some gold on Embassies.
Notes:
Um... How did I pass carthage territory without meeting them? The boat on the north coast can meet them (it is just past their first city).
Here is a pic of where I was thinking of placing this city. It gets 2 deer and 2 fish.
I only know of one hut. It is way to the S. You will probably want to send the scout on the SW coast in that direction. I am unsure if we can get Tech anymore. You may want to simply abandon the Monarchy research and research something real - such as republic in 26 at minus 6 gpt.
The Save
Given my understanding of the nature of the game, I switch Orpoto from a market to a granary. My reasoning is that we wan to grab towns now to raise our town count if nothing else. We can go back and build the market later.
Switch Lagos to a settler (from galley), and Leiria to the galley as the N side of our island is least explored.
Also switch Emertia to a warrior that I can put on the boat the so I can grab huts that I see or explore other islands across the water.
Also don't feel it is worth mining the mountain yet. That is 18 turns. We could build 3 mines in the same time in flat land which would be the same +1 shield. Since the worker started this turn, I wake him up.
Barbs are roaming and we are soon going to be in the middle ages? That will be fun.
I sell philosophy to the vikings and aztecs for a total of 144 gold. It is a known tech so giving to them for below price still seems worthwhile. We can always use the cash.
IBT: My first mistake is hitting end turn and expecting the computer to finish quickly. After about 10 seconds, I realize my error
Emeritia: Warrior->Temple
Oddly enough those deserts have sufficient Oasis that a town might be worthwhile. An oasis is as good as a BG.
1175 BC: Pop a hut and get construction. We are now in the Middle ages in 1175 BC! We have 50 turns to go on Repblic?? Interesting, our research on republic got reset when we switched ages. Since I think I read somewhere that huts only give you techs you don't have, I am going to switch to Monarchy to try to get republic from a hut. Can you get Middle age techs from huts?
Also I changed the spots of the settlers from the previous listed sites to get more of the bonus resources.
IBT:
Lisbon: Settler->Settler
Lagos: Settler->Barracks
Sao Paulo: Warrior->Spear
1150 BC: Pop another hut and get a town a town which I rename to Four Bananas. It is on the far side of the Mayans
IBT: Aztecs ask us to move. Ok
Leria: Galley->Settler
1125 BC: Build the city of Guarda. Get 50 gold from a hut With so much land and so many bonus resources, it is hard to chose spots for settlers.
IBT: We get the forbidden Palace message
Luanda: Warrior->Worker
1100 BC: We get region maps from a hut. Another hut discovered.
IBT: Sumeria completes Artemis.
Oporto: Granary-Settler
1075 BC: The city Castelo Branco is built.
IBT: Hittite complete the hanging gardens.
Vikings are building the great wall.
1050 BC: We gain 50 gold twice.
IBT:
Lisbon: Settler->Barracks
1025 BC: 50 gold again. Can you still gain techs when in the middle ages?
IBT:
1000 BC: Badajoz built. Spend some gold on Embassies.
Notes:
Um... How did I pass carthage territory without meeting them? The boat on the north coast can meet them (it is just past their first city).
Here is a pic of where I was thinking of placing this city. It gets 2 deer and 2 fish.
I only know of one hut. It is way to the S. You will probably want to send the scout on the SW coast in that direction. I am unsure if we can get Tech anymore. You may want to simply abandon the Monarchy research and research something real - such as republic in 26 at minus 6 gpt.
The Save
Aggie
Deity
No you can't get MA-techs from popped huts 
In hindsight we should have put research on Construction to pop Republic or Monarchy instead.
Aggie --------- On deck
Melifluous
Rubberjello
CarlosMM
Microbe
Greebly ------ Just played
Mad-Bax ----- Up
PS. I highly doubt the roaming barbs. I haven't seen a barbarian roaming around yet.
We are at 16 cities now. Two more give us the FP message and would be more than average for the world.
Looking at the wonders-screen (F7) leaderheads I think that Russia is in the Middle Ages as well. And probably Sumeria too. Two scientific civs.
EDIT2: After the expansion phase I strongly suggest to build more galleys. Contact is key!! Naturally marketplaces, aquaducts, workers are important as well
In hindsight we should have put research on Construction to pop Republic or Monarchy instead.
Aggie --------- On deck
Melifluous
Rubberjello
CarlosMM
Microbe
Greebly ------ Just played
Mad-Bax ----- Up
PS. I highly doubt the roaming barbs. I haven't seen a barbarian roaming around yet.
We are at 16 cities now. Two more give us the FP message and would be more than average for the world.
Looking at the wonders-screen (F7) leaderheads I think that Russia is in the Middle Ages as well. And probably Sumeria too. Two scientific civs.
EDIT2: After the expansion phase I strongly suggest to build more galleys. Contact is key!! Naturally marketplaces, aquaducts, workers are important as well
ahem, we are very close to the city limit - perhaps it would be a good idea to walk settlers two tiles away from the city producing them, settle, then, once we have hit 512 place settlers in ideal spots and abandon these placeholder cities......
I was thinking with all the hut cities that we were ahead of the city game. There are two settlers about 2 squaress from settlement, so I was hoping that we could grab at least 18 before the message.
To get an idea if this is reasonable, we could compare the number of cities each civ has and take an average. That is lilkely to be a decent approximation of how many cities each civ now has. Otherwise we could settle them both earlier.
As carlos mentions, we can build the FP now.
So Aggie, do you know if that means it is impossible for us to get Republic ( non-MA) now, since we are MA? If so. you are completely right. we could have chosen construction and probably gotten both Republic and Monarchy from huts (and we wouldn't have lost 14 turns research when the era got changed on us). I got a strong feeling that this IS right. I popped a decent number of huts with no Republic. We should probably switch to full research on republic.
To get an idea if this is reasonable, we could compare the number of cities each civ has and take an average. That is lilkely to be a decent approximation of how many cities each civ now has. Otherwise we could settle them both earlier.
As carlos mentions, we can build the FP now.
So Aggie, do you know if that means it is impossible for us to get Republic ( non-MA) now, since we are MA? If so. you are completely right. we could have chosen construction and probably gotten both Republic and Monarchy from huts (and we wouldn't have lost 14 turns research when the era got changed on us). I got a strong feeling that this IS right. I popped a decent number of huts with no Republic. We should probably switch to full research on republic.
Aggie
Deity
I am almost 100% sure that we can't pop techs anymore. Full research on Republic seems the best now.
I blame myself for not pointing out the fact that we should choose Construction. I guess I forgot it while posting other info(? ) I tried to get accross.
But the goody huts we pop remain interesting. We shouldn't disband the scouts just yet (at all)!
I blame myself for not pointing out the fact that we should choose Construction. I guess I forgot it while posting other info(?
) I tried to get accross.But the goody huts we pop remain interesting. We shouldn't disband the scouts just yet (at all)!
Agreed on keeping units. 50 gold is common and a nice windfall.
It will also reduce the cost of world map when we get there.
We are also still meeting new civs sharing our island. In fact our island may have a whole northern half as big as we have already seen. Not definitely but possibly.
It will also reduce the cost of world map when we get there.
We are also still meeting new civs sharing our island. In fact our island may have a whole northern half as big as we have already seen. Not definitely but possibly.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
(0) 1000BC: Pre-turn
Switch research to republic.
IBT:
Iroquois demand lit. No.
(1) 975BC:
Have we met Carthage yet? They are down a couple of techs but have 200g. The richest civ.
Have we met Rome yet? They are broke and really backward.
(2) 950BC:
Quiet
IBT:
America complete the great wall. Looks like they popped a few huts too.
(3) 925BC:
Contact America. They are broke and stupid. So I was wrong.
Contact Persia. ditto.
lux tax has to go up to 10%
(4) 900BC:
How do we feel about suicide galleys? A galley has done a circuit of an island and is miles away from doing anything useful. I decide to send him offshore.
(5) 875BC:
Galley survives this turn.
Nothing else happens.
(6) 850BC:
Pop a hut for 50g
Pop another hut for 50g
(7) 825BC:
The suicide galley is still afloat, though I regret saying so as it seals its fate.
IBT: the vikings squeeze a city in amongst us in the jungle. :hmmm:
The galley sinks. Sorry.
(8) 800BC:
Hit the city limit. We have 19 cities.
(9) 775BC:
Pop a hut for 50g
(10) 750BC:
Nothing much happened.
We have contacts with 11 civs.
America lack Poly and currency
Most of the others lack lit and currency.
Persia and Carthage only lack currency.
I haven't established any embassies. I wasn't sure if we were going for a mass sword upgrade to take on Maya, who have no horses or iron. I'd like to do this since their land is otherwise reasonable.
Here is our world
>>THE GAME<<
Switch research to republic.
IBT:
Iroquois demand lit. No.
(1) 975BC:
Have we met Carthage yet? They are down a couple of techs but have 200g. The richest civ.
Have we met Rome yet? They are broke and really backward.
(2) 950BC:
Quiet
IBT:
America complete the great wall. Looks like they popped a few huts too.
(3) 925BC:
Contact America. They are broke and stupid. So I was wrong.
Contact Persia. ditto.
lux tax has to go up to 10%
(4) 900BC:
How do we feel about suicide galleys? A galley has done a circuit of an island and is miles away from doing anything useful. I decide to send him offshore.
(5) 875BC:
Galley survives this turn.
Nothing else happens.
(6) 850BC:
Pop a hut for 50g
Pop another hut for 50g
(7) 825BC:
The suicide galley is still afloat, though I regret saying so as it seals its fate.
IBT: the vikings squeeze a city in amongst us in the jungle. :hmmm:
The galley sinks. Sorry.
(8) 800BC:
Hit the city limit. We have 19 cities.
(9) 775BC:
Pop a hut for 50g
(10) 750BC:
Nothing much happened.
We have contacts with 11 civs.
America lack Poly and currency
Most of the others lack lit and currency.
Persia and Carthage only lack currency.
I haven't established any embassies. I wasn't sure if we were going for a mass sword upgrade to take on Maya, who have no horses or iron. I'd like to do this since their land is otherwise reasonable.
Here is our world
>>THE GAME<<
Aggie
Deity
Mad-bax, I'm OK with suicide galleys. In fact: we should use more once our land is explored by them. So we reached the city limit? 19 cities is a good number. I very much like us to take the infra push road now.
Aggie --------- Up
Melifluous ---- On deck
Rubberjello
CarlosMM
Microbe
Greebly
Mad-Bax ----- Just Played
Aggie --------- Up
Melifluous ---- On deck
Rubberjello
CarlosMM
Microbe
Greebly
Mad-Bax ----- Just Played
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
I am playing a demigod game, all went very well, but Maya sneak-attacked me and I lost 3 cities (one with iron the the other with incense).
I guess I lost the game (but I'm still playing), but I'll just let you know that I HATE MAYA!!!
EDIT: Oh with suicide galleys - I sent a suicide dromon in my game and it survived 3 turns in the ocean and found the other continent, which let me broker happily for the entire Middle Ages. In one turn I had my best trading experience in all games: 8 techs, iron, a worker, 104g and 2gpt out of nothing. So I definitely agree with it. Keep doing it!
I guess I lost the game (but I'm still playing), but I'll just let you know that I HATE MAYA!!!
EDIT: Oh with suicide galleys - I sent a suicide dromon in my game and it survived 3 turns in the ocean and found the other continent, which let me broker happily for the entire Middle Ages. In one turn I had my best trading experience in all games: 8 techs, iron, a worker, 104g and 2gpt out of nothing. So I definitely agree with it. Keep doing it!
I saw some trading was possible in the preturn. Our Monopoly on currency can get us (with Polytheism) republic (plus small gold) from America. It could also get us 400 + 5 gpt at Monopoly price (My thought was to get republic right away and then trade/sell a scientific civ into the middle ages. When they get a middle age tech, use republic to reduce the price of that middle age tech. We may even be able to repeat with another scientific civ.
We can also sell "old" techs for more cash to fuel the above. With any luck we can get all the avail gold, republic, and one or more middle age techs at the cost of also pushing some of the AI into the middle ages with us.
We can also sell "old" techs for more cash to fuel the above. With any luck we can get all the avail gold, republic, and one or more middle age techs at the cost of also pushing some of the AI into the middle ages with us.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
I checked all trades on the last turn and I am sure I didn't see the americans with republic. Still, it's good news and I would go for it. "gifting" a scientific civ into the MA is cool by me, but I would try to keep our treasury in tact for an upgrade.I think an infra push is OK, but I would have our rax cities build warriors for a while. Perhaps we can go for a mass upgrade to MDI and take on one of our rivals who lack horses. I would also research towards navigation for the opportunity to trade for horses at some point. I think a war using MDI, pikes and cats would be an interesting game.
Suicide galleys are good value for a sea faring civ. My only concern is that the reduced likelyhood of sinking is offset by the large distances involved and therefore the larger number of turns required at sea.
Aggie
Deity
IHT:
-I buy Republic and 25 gold from America for Poly and Currency
-I sell Currency to Cathage for 403 gold and 5 gpt
-I sell Currency to the Iroquois for 145 gold
-I sell Currecny to the Maya for 156 gold
But I refuse to GIVE Persia Currency and Korea three techs to get into the MA.
I build an embassy in America for 97 gold, in Persia for 79 gold, in Mongolia for 79 gold, in Carthage for 45 gold.
We have 1407 gold and I go in ANARCHY. We draw 5 turns.
IT: The Inca demand Literature. We are in anarchy and they are close, so I give in.
Turn 1, 2 (730, 710, 690 BC)
Turn 4 (670 BC) Persia is in the MA and got Feudalism. Republic, 1430 gold and 5 gpt is not enough to buy it from them. I still don't catapult Korea in the MA (they lack three techs).
Turn 5 (650 BC) We are a Republic.
I switch a couple of core cities to marketplaces. Science goes to 0% and luxury to 20%. We now make 45 gpt. I could have continued with 40% science, but we would only get Feudalism in 25.
I pop a hut and get 50 gold.
Mono prizes on Feudalism :
I rush a market in Oporto for 296 gold.
IT: Oporto: market->library. Sagres: warrior->market.
Turn 6 (630 BC) I switch two of temples in remoter places to worker. We need a lot more of those!
Market in Lisbon and Lagos rushed for about 750 gold.
IT: Lisbon, Lagos: market->harbor.
Turn 7 (610 BC) We now make 72 gpt. I rush a market in agres for 390 gold.
IT: Sagres: marekt->FP (can be vetoed; is a FP very good to have right now???)
Turn 8 (590 BC) A scout sees ruins, sure sings of early wars in the NE of our continent. Another scout pops 50 gold. America learned Monarchy. For the rest the tech situation is unchanged.
IT: Luanda, Viseu: worker->worker.
Turn 9 (570 BC)
IT: Lagos and Castelbranco riot
Turn 10 (550 BC) Nothing changed tech-wise.
We have 430 gold and make 93 gpt.
Imho our priorities must be infra now, not building military. Investiging in infra will pay off big time in a later stage. At CDZ we play a similar game and there our build orders are:
Harbour (if required)
Library
Marketplace
Courthouse (if required)
Aqueduct (if required)
Barracks
Galleys
(Thanks anarres )
I think the same applies here, except for the fact that we need far more workers! I think that the FP in Sagres would be at a good spot. Leiria is the only unguarded city. It may get the warrior from Lisbon.
We may be able to trade next turn after finishing our first harbor.
550 BC save
-I buy Republic and 25 gold from America for Poly and Currency
-I sell Currency to Cathage for 403 gold and 5 gpt
-I sell Currency to the Iroquois for 145 gold
-I sell Currecny to the Maya for 156 gold
But I refuse to GIVE Persia Currency and Korea three techs to get into the MA.
I build an embassy in America for 97 gold, in Persia for 79 gold, in Mongolia for 79 gold, in Carthage for 45 gold.
We have 1407 gold and I go in ANARCHY. We draw 5 turns.
IT: The Inca demand Literature. We are in anarchy and they are close, so I give in.
Turn 1, 2 (730, 710, 690 BC)
Turn 4 (670 BC) Persia is in the MA and got Feudalism. Republic, 1430 gold and 5 gpt is not enough to buy it from them. I still don't catapult Korea in the MA (they lack three techs).
Turn 5 (650 BC) We are a Republic.
I switch a couple of core cities to marketplaces. Science goes to 0% and luxury to 20%. We now make 45 gpt. I could have continued with 40% science, but we would only get Feudalism in 25.
I pop a hut and get 50 gold.
Mono prizes on Feudalism
:
I rush a market in Oporto for 296 gold.
IT: Oporto: market->library. Sagres: warrior->market.
Turn 6 (630 BC) I switch two of temples in remoter places to worker. We need a lot more of those!
Market in Lisbon and Lagos rushed for about 750 gold.
IT: Lisbon, Lagos: market->harbor.
Turn 7 (610 BC) We now make 72 gpt. I rush a market in agres for 390 gold.
IT: Sagres: marekt->FP (can be vetoed; is a FP very good to have right now???)
Turn 8 (590 BC) A scout sees ruins, sure sings of early wars in the NE of our continent. Another scout pops 50 gold. America learned Monarchy. For the rest the tech situation is unchanged.
IT: Luanda, Viseu: worker->worker.
Turn 9 (570 BC)
IT: Lagos and Castelbranco riot
Turn 10 (550 BC) Nothing changed tech-wise.
We have 430 gold and make 93 gpt.
Imho our priorities must be infra now, not building military. Investiging in infra will pay off big time in a later stage. At CDZ we play a similar game and there our build orders are:
Harbour (if required)
Library
Marketplace
Courthouse (if required)
Aqueduct (if required)
Barracks
Galleys
(Thanks anarres
)I think the same applies here, except for the fact that we need far more workers! I think that the FP in Sagres would be at a good spot. Leiria is the only unguarded city. It may get the warrior from Lisbon.
We may be able to trade next turn after finishing our first harbor.
550 BC save
Aggie
Deity
Our empire and the world map. The red arrows points to our galley with warrior, who now -I think- are on a point for big desicion time. Does it go east and maybe pop a few huts with the warrior or west for a suicide run. The curragh is to the NE or the continent.
Aggie -------- Just played
Melifluous ---- Up
Rubberjello --- On deck
CarlosMM
Microbe
Greebly
Mad-Bax
Aggie -------- Just played
Melifluous ---- Up
Rubberjello --- On deck
CarlosMM
Microbe
Greebly
Mad-Bax
- Status
