Al Sadr's 'defeated' militias:

Well, the usual pissing match is all very interesting.

But I think its worth it to throw in a few observations.

1) The Basra situation seems to have stabilized into a situation of somewhat settled instability. The parties down there all seem to be abiding by the truce. Mostly. We're not hearing reports of continuing fighting between any set of players.

2) Things may not be completely stable. There are now reports of attacks on Southern pipelines. Since oil smuggling and tapping the pipelines is a major source of revenue for the southern gangs and militias this seems significant. In the past, the southern oil infrastructure has been safe because the players were making money from corruption, and didn't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. The attacks now suggest that there's a struggle both for control of the 'underground oil economy' and perhaps an ongoing covert struggle between the players. One that might boil over again, suddenly, if someone screws up, makes a misjudgement or shows weakness. Still, if I had to guess, I think Basra is holding its breath and waiting for the issue to be decided elsewhere.

3) If Basra is stable, Baghdad is anything but. But there is considerable confusion when you look more closely. The Green Zone is under almost constant attack from mortars and rockets. Interestingly, no culprit is identified. I'm not seeing press releases or announcements or speeches from American generals or politicians blaming Sadr for the campaign against the Green Zone. They don't actually seem to be identifying anyone... except for the Iranians. This in itself strikes me as peculiar

4) For his part, Sadr himself appears equally weirdly cagey. He denounces and threatens war against the American forces. But at the same time, he refuses to threaten war against the Iraqi army or Maliki's government, both of which he makes overtures too. There seems to be some political triangulation going on.

5) The United States appears to be involved in some sort of slow motion campaign or incursion into Sadr City in Baghdad..... with resulting flare ups and low intensity fighting. It seems to be working, or at least, I have some impression of penetration into some districts of Sadr city. Backing the American action, and perhaps putting an Iraqi face on it, are Iraqi military, primarily 'uniformed up' members of the Badr Brigades.

6) Maliki, for his part, seems to be doing the same pussyfooting as all the rest of the players. He's not acknowledging the campaign upon Sadr City at all. Instead, he seems to focus on his political maneuverings against Sadr. It seems that he wants to avoid being in the centre of another set of crosshairs. The Basra campaign may have cost him politically.

So, to summarise - Everyone is holding their breath in Basra, Someone is bombing the Green Zone but we're pretending we don't know who, Sadr is threatening open war with the United States army but pretending that has nothing to do with the Iraq government, the United States is invading Sadr City, but pretending its not. And Maliki is focusing on his politics and pretending none of the rest is going on.

Why do I have the feeling that somewhere in the background, a country and western singer with an old time band is about to call "Turn around and switch your partners, doesy doo, that's the square dance."
 
You mean the captain meant to exclude everyone else in the effort? Even Bush who was onboard to declare victory and the end of "major" hostilities? No no, the captain did that all on his own to congratulate only his crew. :rolleyes: C'mon, a little logic goes along way ;)

And major hostilities did end. The Iraqi army was defeated. Yes logic does go a long way. You should try using some. Logic would tell you that the banner was for the particular ship. Thats why it said mission accomplished. The ships mission was indeed over. It didn't say war over. See how logic works. Try it next time.
 
Things may not be completely stable.

Uh, no offense, but this isn't particularly a particularly controversial or new analysis. Anybody who thinks that Iraq is "completely stable" is nuts.

4) For his part, Sadr himself appears equally weirdly cagey. He denounces and threatens war against the American forces. But at the same time, he refuses to threaten war against the Iraqi army or Maliki's government, both of which he makes overtures too. There seems to be some political triangulation going on.

I don't see how that's "weirdly cagey." Denouncing foreign occupiers is playing to his base of poor, disenfranchised Shi'ites, and Sadr knows that the American army isn't going to go into the south to attack him for his rhetoric. On the other hand, Maliki has now demonstrated that he's ready and willing to use force.

5) The United States appears to be involved in some sort of slow motion campaign or incursion into Sadr City in Baghdad...

What are you talking about? The United States has troops all over Baghdad. We've had them there since we first invaded Iraq. And we have even more of them there right now as a result of the surge. Again, I really don't see what you're trying to get at here. Obviously we're going to send extra troops into the areas that mortars are being fired from.
 
So sadr had his troops attack and they lost. I wish they would attack more often so they will die.

Not entirely without casualties on our side. Currently for this battle the ratio is well in the US forces favour at 10:1 - 20:1. In any straight up direct fight the US has a massive firepower and technological advantage. After five years of fighting no doubt tactics have also changed.

BAGHDAD — Bombardments by suspected militants killed four U.S. soldiers Monday as troops tried to push Shiite fighters farther from the U.S.-protected Green Zone and out of range of their rockets and mortars.
 
Not entirely without casualties on our side. Currently for this battle the ratio is well in the US forces favour at 10:1 - 20:1. In any straight up direct fight the US has a massive firepower and technological advantage. After five years of fighting no doubt tactics have also changed.

Where did you get that information? I'm speaking of current ratios for the conflict in Baghdad? I'm curious.
 
Where did you get that information? I'm speaking of current ratios for the conflict in Baghdad? I'm curious.

Rough estimate 45 Shira milita reported dead 4 US soldiers also reported dead.
For a more accurate accounting see Brookings Iraq Index. Which will probably appear a month or two later.
 
Ahhh. This is contingent on the assumption that the reporting is accurate, that all the persons killed are killed, that they were all genuinely militia members, etc. Having said that, okay... So, we're looking at a 11.2 ratio?

The Sadrist forces may well consider this an acceptable ratio. Dunno.
 
[SARCASM]
Slavery still exists today, despite several wars and a lot of other effort directed towards eliminating it from the world.

Must mean trying to erase it from the planet is worthless. Might as well legalize it.
[/SARCASM]

OP = pointless.

Kill All Terrorists.
 
You do realise there isn't any fighting after one side throws in the towel, correct?

Aren't you cute. Is this the part where you pretend I was somhow talking about the Madi army everywhere instead of just the particular battle in Basra?
 
And major hostilities did end. The Iraqi army was defeated. Yes logic does go a long way. You should try using some. Logic would tell you that the banner was for the particular ship. Thats why it said mission accomplished. The ships mission was indeed over. It didn't say war over. See how logic works. Try it next time.

The Iraqi army didn't fight...until we disbanded it and cut off salaries. Compare casualties during the invasion and after Saddam was out of power and you'll see "Mission Accomplished" was but the beginning of major hostilities. And logic tells me if the Bushies didn't want that banner behind him for his speech, it would not have been there. And given their track record at conveying truth, I'd like to hear the captain actually claim credit for the banner.
 
The Iraqi army didn't fight...until we disbanded it and cut off salaries. Compare casualties during the invasion and after Saddam was out of power and you'll see "Mission Accomplished" was but the beginning of major hostilities. And logic tells me if the Bushies didn't want that banner behind him for his speech, it would not have been there. And given their track record at conveying truth, I'd like to hear the captain actually claim credit for the banner.

Logic tells me you don't understand major war operations and that you call people "Bushies" because you lack logic. :lol:
 
whatever, no substance to your post, so...

and I call Bush and his administration Bushies, how is that illogical? Yer insult doesn't even make sense.
 
Defeated Mehdi army, still fighting away...


from BBC
Four US soldiers have been killed in two separate mortar or rocket attacks in Baghdad, the latest casualties of fierce clashes with Shia militia.

At least 38 Shia militia fighters have also been killed in the past two days of fighting, the US military has said.

Twenty-two militants died in a single incident on Sunday, when US tanks opened fire to repel an attack.

A US military spokesman said the operation in Sadr City was targeting criminals and militants firing rockets.

Losses

Three US soldiers were killed by indirect fire - the US military term for mortar or rocket fire - in eastern Baghdad on Monday. Another soldier was killed by a similar attack in northern Baghdad.

Their deaths, according to Iraq Coalition Casualty Count, bring the total number of US soldiers killed to 4,055 since the US-led invasion in 2003.

"When we have losses like this they hit us hard, but they bring us together, they strengthen our resolve and we will win," Major Mark Cheadle of the Multi-National Force in Baghdad told the BBC.

"We are taking it to them every single day. They are using dastardly methods of hiding behind civilians... But when they face us head to head, as the incident on Sunday showed, they lose every time."

Sadr City is a Baghdad stronghold of radical Shia cleric Moqtada Sadr.

Militants had taken advantage of a sandstorm on Sunday to shell the heavily protected Green Zone, officials said.

Local residents stayed indoors and aerial military operations by US forces were initially made difficult by the sandstorm, the BBC's Clive Myrie reports from Baghdad.

Sadr rejection

The Green Zone, the vast complex housing government offices and foreign embassies, was still being hit by rocket or mortar attacks on Monday.

US and Iraqi officials have blamed such attacks on rogue elements from the Mehdi Army, a militia loyal to Moqtada Sadr.

The cleric called for a ceasefire on Friday, but on Sunday he rejected the government's conditions for ending a major military campaign against Shia militias.

Major Cheadle told the BBC the upsurge in violence followed an operation to end rocket attacks on the capital's International Zone.

"We've established a combined civil-military operations centre with representatives from the government of Iraq," he said.

"We've been there since actually about October but we just started to clear the areas of criminals and those who are attacking with rockets inside the IZ [International Zone - the military's term for the Green Zone] and hurting innocent civilians in and around the IZ."

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki has said he wants to disarm all militants operating outside the control of the central government.

More than 400 people have been killed in Sadr City in recent weeks.
 
Fact check: the Iraqi army's last offensive was against Mahdi Army elements in Basra, not Baghdad.
There was also fighting in Baghdad.
What are you talking about? The United States has troops all over Baghdad. We've had them there since we first invaded Iraq. And we have even more of them there right now as a result of the surge. Again, I really don't see what you're trying to get at here. Obviously we're going to send extra troops into the areas that mortars are being fired from.
The 'surge' is now a year old, and the entire point was to keep areas like Baghdad safe... and here we are, a year on, with regular mortar attacks on the green zone. Go on, someone tell me 'the surge is working' :rolleyes:

It seems to me that the militants are making a point of attacking US forces in an attempt to make themselves appear to be the good guys, fighting for Iraqi's against the occupiers as it were.
 
Even you brennen, have to admit that violence is very much less than before the surge took effect. Simple statistics. Again, it is a quite pathetic tactic to purposely magnify the scope of what people like I were obviously talking about when we said the Mehdi army had been beaten in Basra to beaten period. I guess the Germans were not beaten in Stalingrad, or the British at Dunkirk :rolleyes:

In any case, about the banner, all ships have those types of signs and bunting and music and whatnot on their return from cruises. It very much has everything to do with that particular ship and its involvement in overall operations, not overall operations.
 
Deaths in Saddam's time>Deaths Now.

FIXED. This is fun, let me try!

Chance for a better future under Saddam's<Chance of a better future now

Let me try again!

Purposely inflicted deaths of children due to hording/selling Iraq's medice by saddam>all deaths due to violence in Iraq since 2003
 
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