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ALC Game #22 Take 2: Arabs/Saladin

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Sisiutil, Apr 15, 2008.

  1. Stuck in Pi

    Stuck in Pi 3.14159265358979323846...

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    Capitulation sounds good here. Roosy looks juicy, but see if you can keep Sury out of it. More land for you!
     
  2. civ4legs

    civ4legs Warlord

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    I am sure that he will vassalize to Sury if you don't vassalize him yourself soon. I think you should just take it now: I don't think there is much at all to gain from not accepting now. Culture on NY is a valid concern, but unless your stack is closeby I expect him to vassalize quickly.

    Perhaps one gambit would be to get Sury to declare on him. While they aren't speaking you could snap up that last city there and then vassalize. I am pretty sure that you would get immediate peace with Sury when you do that. Does anyone know for sure?
     
  3. patagonia

    patagonia Emperor

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    I concur.

    And what a difference a war makes. In the early ALCs you were a builder, but now there's little doubt you're an out and out warmonger :mischief:

    ==========

    I'm with the Sury next crowd. This map is begging for him to be trimmed down a touch. I mean, have you seen the shape of his empire?

    Vassal Zara can take the brunt of his attacks in the north while you trim away his 3 southern mainland cities at your leisure. Sury and Roosevelt hate each other, so there'll be no OB with the Americans to give him an easy route to attack Arabia. Once you've taken the south, you can either continue working your way up the coast, or head inland to the US on 3 fronts.

    Trebs/muskets/camel archers are a useful war combination for hundreds of years, especially if you build enough of them, so there's no real need to let up. Besides, you're only 2 techs from cannons and 3 from having both those and grens, so you can get newer, fancier troops online as you fight.

    ==========

    For the sake of other players, I do need to point out one extremely :smoke: move you've made without thinking, or rather two.

    Sury's UU may no longer seem a threat now that you've got pikes, but you've gone and made your medic 3 with a chariot. And then traded ivory to Sury. That means any Ballista elephants are going to home straight in on your super-medic. It'd have been much more sensible to make a medic 3 scout when you knew you'd be facing Khmer troops. True, you'd struggle to get that 26th XP for the morale promotion, but he'd be safe from harm for the rest of the game.
     
  4. civ4legs

    civ4legs Warlord

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    Wow, I hadn't thought about that! I would DEFINITELY cancel the deal ASAP for this reason alone!

    I am just about through a game with Monty now, so my mash unit is a glorious jaguar with Woodsman 3 and Medic3. It's a beaut!
     
  5. CivCorpse

    CivCorpse Supreme Overlord of All

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    Pikes mean nothing to Ballista Elephants because they don't defend against them until all the mounted units are dead. Mounted units means all Sis' CA's.
    As for the medic. I agree with not using a chariot. I often wonder why players don't build a scout in a city with a settled GG and vassalage/theocracy. 7exp plus a GG means level6. And if it comes down to a scout being the best defender then your problems go waaaaaay beyond ballista elephants. But definately cancel the deal.
     
  6. Stuck in Pi

    Stuck in Pi 3.14159265358979323846...

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    one thing that is bad about scouts being medics: no woody 3. My opinion: take a early melee unit (warrior?), get it to woody 3 early, then save it for your MASH. You should be able to get it to the xp for morale.
     
  7. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Capitulating now is the best option.
     
  8. Shoot the Moon

    Shoot the Moon Playing World in Conflict

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    I'd say capitulate, even if just for the fact that you want the techs he has. In 10 turns, he's gonna get chemistry. Trying to finish him off while he has grens doesn't sound good.
     
  9. 7Fang

    7Fang Chieftain

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    What's a MASH unit?
     
  10. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

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    Grenadiers do not come with Chemistry in BtS, I think.
     
  11. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    Since everyone agree that Sury is the biggest threat now, why not go after him before Roosy?
    If at the same time you can start a war between them both, then Sury will face 3 civ (Roosy, you, and your *future* vassal), and Roosy will act as a buffer for you against Sury.
    If not, in any case, Roosy will act as a protection; I mean that Sury's troops can't get to you through Roosy's land.
    Of course, you would have to reinforce both yourself and Zara at this point before going to war. But with Sury down, owning your continent is just piece of cake.
     
  12. vale

    vale Mathematician

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    Mobile Army Surgical Hospital

    aka Medic unit.
     
  13. Pieman

    Pieman Prince

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    A (super?) medic unit I suppose.
     
  14. Lord Chambers

    Lord Chambers King

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    Why all the talk about buffers? This isn't the USSR, buffers aren't worth trying to arrange in Civ4. Especially when we're protective and think that's so swell.

    Yeha isn't worth the time it takes to move your stack up to it. Accept capitulation, or taste the sting of Zara vassalizing to someone else. Attack Roosevelt next because he's closer than Suryvarman II. Call me simple, but I think spending fewer turns with your military units traveling is worth aiming for when you're going to conquer the continent anyway.
     
  15. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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    Sisiutil adopted MASH unit to mean a 3-move unit with Medic III and Morale for healing, movement, and West Point.

    I think he may sometimes also use the term to refer to 2-move units with only Medic I or II, but especially the first one and especially when it gets to 6 XP, noting that it has been prepared to get the Great General later.
     
  16. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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    I noticed that you need to adopt Mercantilism. Surya has been in it for 15 turns. That will get you twice as much moolah as the Bank: 32 from the Bank at 20% versus (12 cities x 6) - 6 upkeep = 64 from the raw specialists.
     
  17. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    That's pretty accurate. MASH stands for Mobile Army Surgical Hospital, and when I talk about a MASH unit, I'm referring to whichever unit I choose to get Combat I and Medic I - III courtesy of an attached Great General. I usually try to get a Chariot to Medic I and 6 or 7 XPs early in the game, at which point he becomes my "intended" MASH unit.

    I call it that because I'm lazy; MASH is easier to type than "Combat I Medic III Morale-promoted Great General-attached unit".
     
  18. CivCorpse

    CivCorpse Supreme Overlord of All

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    Using a melee unit with woodsman3 medic3 combat1 and morale requires level 9. Which is 65 exp. 20 from a GG leaves 45 more. That is a lot of exp to get without upgrading and risking the MASH unit as a defender.
     
  19. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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    For now I suggest Scientists in Aksum rather than Moai tiles.
    * Rep
    * for now it's your only city with an Academy
    * your science bar is likely to stay low (which I think is fine)
    * there are good scientist techs coming up (at least Education, PP, and Chemistry, if not Paper and Philo)
     
  20. kniteowl

    kniteowl Pirate Captain :P

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    Just nit picking (is that the right word???) but would your UU knight do a better job countering Oromo, immune to first strikes, can promote to pinch without the requirement of a military civic becuase of stables, higer base strength + withdrawal chance, the only dowside I see is that those Oromo's could be defended by Pikemen... but that's what the higher withdrawal chacne is for.

    great gameplay so far btw, I haven't played Civ in ages becuase I'm busy, but it's still interesting to read up on the ALC games.
     

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