ALC Game #22 Take 2: Arabs/Saladin
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
Tracnar
Warlord
Hey Sis,
Good job on your come back and your soon to be domination of the continent. Those annoying island city's of surys are going to be... well annoying but the boats for them will be good for your intercontinental war. Even if pascal does not give you nationalism in time for sury then you still can draft a large army of riflemen to kick some butt.
My advice, don't listen to me I'm a lowly noble player, is that with pascal and his uber shrine/wonders or monty and his land, for ease of victory it would be best to go after monty, but to really maybe get a challenge is to go after pascal and maybe the sugar island, bribe monty to stay off your back and with all those good city's get a much higher score? I mean having almost all the wonders and almost every single holy city seems fairly high score to me.
It seems to me that killing monty would be the easy way out, and don't get me wrong easy wins are somewhat fun,especially if your killing crossbows with riflemen, that could avenge your last death from the hand of crossbows and come full circle. However wasn't the saladin game meant to try to show off that your almost ready to move up to immortal? With your loss on the first game it would go a long way to redeeming yourself if you try for the tougher victory path and possibly a higher score, of course winning quick and easy could also get you a higher score. The more advanced players can figure out if it is more score-worthy to win big or win fast.
Good Luck
Good job on your come back and your soon to be domination of the continent. Those annoying island city's of surys are going to be... well annoying but the boats for them will be good for your intercontinental war. Even if pascal does not give you nationalism in time for sury then you still can draft a large army of riflemen to kick some butt.
My advice, don't listen to me I'm a lowly noble player, is that with pascal and his uber shrine/wonders or monty and his land, for ease of victory it would be best to go after monty, but to really maybe get a challenge is to go after pascal and maybe the sugar island, bribe monty to stay off your back and with all those good city's get a much higher score? I mean having almost all the wonders and almost every single holy city seems fairly high score to me.
It seems to me that killing monty would be the easy way out, and don't get me wrong easy wins are somewhat fun,especially if your killing crossbows with riflemen, that could avenge your last death from the hand of crossbows and come full circle. However wasn't the saladin game meant to try to show off that your almost ready to move up to immortal? With your loss on the first game it would go a long way to redeeming yourself if you try for the tougher victory path and possibly a higher score, of course winning quick and easy could also get you a higher score. The more advanced players can figure out if it is more score-worthy to win big or win fast.
Good Luck
Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
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- 708
Instead of waiting and getting a couple rifles, you could wait, trade for Nationalism (once they finish the Taj, which shouldn't be too long) and draft a lot of rifles.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Okay, forgive me for saying this, but are you looking at the same game as me?
This is BtS. It's Military Science that enables Grenadiers, not Chemistry. Macemen can't be upgraded to anything yet.
Also, Sury moved his stack out of Boston--it's right next to Atlanta. I was racing him to that last American city.
As for making Medina the IW city, I think you're forgetting about the power of watermills and workshops to convert a city with several riverside grassland tiles (like Medina) into a production powerhouse. But hey, I've only been doing that since ALC #3...
Oh, and Great Generals cannot start golden ages, and even if they could, that would be a
use of a GG. I'll give you props for the Academy tip, though. I usually lightbulb all Great Scientists when I run a SE, but I'll consider the Academy in the capital.
Yes, I'm kind of thinking that. With Sury at Pleased, chances of him declaring war anytime soon should be fairly low.
DMOC
Mathematician
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- Aug 23, 2007
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- 5,594
Oh, and Great Generals cannot start golden ages, and even if they could, that would be a
A Golden Age would be one of the best uses of a Great General.*
*Provided that you are playing a relatively peaceful game.
I vote for waiting for rifles. As much as I chide people for making the mistake of changing their game plan to try and leverage a trait that really isn't menat to be leveraged, This is one of those few times that it makes sense to do things a little differently because of the protective trait. And there are extra considerations in this case.
A. With Sury having brought so many knights from his home planet (wherever that may be) I would be surprised if your trebs made it to a second city. So rather than rush in with a handful of rifles and fiding yourself next to a city with no siege units. If your spy/spies fail in the support city revolt. You are hosed. Protective rifles or no Protective rifles.
B. If you go Steel as your next tech, you can upgrade your trebs to cannons which are immune to flanking from knights. I checked. At your current rate of research it takes 13 turn to research steel. Use those 13 turns to build some rifles. That might be a good time to pop the GP for your Golden Age.
A couple notes on the above mentioned GA:
1: Prior to starting your GA go into Medina and add 3 more scientists. This will give you a GS 1 turn before you finish rifling and you will be able to move him to Mecca to found an academy the exact turn you finish rifling to start a GA. Having an acdemy in Mecca for the boosted commerce from a GA and Bureaucracy is pretty good. If you don't force a GS from Medina, then in 9 turns Aksum is going to spit out some random GP with only a 6% chance of a Great Scientist and a close to 60% chance of either a artist or prophet (boooo!) and a 12% chance of a spy which you really don't need.
2: start a Golden Age when rifling is finished. I would drop the slider a notch to start saving gold for upgrading maces and trebs. With the academy you should be about 8 turns from steel if I did the math right and making 250+ in gold. You can finish steel one turn earlier if you don't adjust the slider but it costs you about 250 gpt.
3: When the GA starts, go to gaul and run as many scientist as possible. I know you want the university done quickly, but you only get 1 extra hammer and a couple commerce from the GA. You get double the GPP. A few turns into the GA you should be getting your random GP from aksum. Probably a priest/artist or maybe a spy. Could be a scientist or engineer but don't count on it. Though you could run a engineer rather than a spy in aksum to try and help out.
4. On turn 8 of the GA (if my math is right. You get a Great Scientist in Gaul. and are 15 turns from another one. Save him to use with the loser GP/GA you probably got from aksum. At this point Steel should be done. That gives you 22 turns to crank out rifles and cannons at GA speed.
5. After steel is done switch to vassalage and police state. Research dips a little bit but you want the exp and speed for the next 20+ turns. I wouldn't advise going for nation hood to whip during the GA because that is people not working the tiles for the boosted commerce and hammers. You should be able to pump out enough units without drafting. Estrucian should be able produce a rifleman every 2 turns in the GA's that is 15 from one city. And you only need them for defending cities you capture. Offensively you have enough maces that can be upgraded to CR rifles.
6. Halfway through the 2nd GA you get another scientist from Gaul. @ this point if you switch back to working the mines you can use the rest of the GA to finish your university.
On stuff your cities are currenly building.
A. Bagdad is building an observatory? It has a whopping 16 base commerce. Are you planning on making it a little GP farm? It looks like a nice production city. You might consider just eating the 51 hammers invested rather than investing 175 more for an extra ONE beaker per turn at 40% science.
B. Mecca is building a Camel archer. A unit that is pretty much obsolete. It does not have a University. If you start one now and one in Gondor(15 turn build) next turn and in Estrucan(9 turn build) in 3 turns, you can have Oxford done by about the end of the first GA. That means you get the beneifits of both a University AND Oxford for the enitire 2nd GA.
C. Medina is building a pikeman. Again an about to be obsolete unit. Granted when you pull 3 citizens off of mines to force the Great Scientist you're really producing much of anything. Might as well build wealth. Or a treb that is a cheap upgrade. Never have enough disposable siege units.
And finally a thought on the GG you have stored away in Aksum. You might want to build a Military Academy in Washington. I don't know if you remember the two settled GG's there. With WP you have a city that can produce level 4 units without a civic. Just a granary and a barracks. Loads of food and production. It can even draft CG3 rifles from time to time.
Ok, I am off to bed in a bit. Great couple of rounds. But that is what we expected considering this is your 22nd ALC game. LOL, that being said, please take my advise with a grain of salt. Just some observations from a guy drinking coffee @ 2am
A. With Sury having brought so many knights from his home planet (wherever that may be) I would be surprised if your trebs made it to a second city. So rather than rush in with a handful of rifles and fiding yourself next to a city with no siege units. If your spy/spies fail in the support city revolt. You are hosed. Protective rifles or no Protective rifles.
B. If you go Steel as your next tech, you can upgrade your trebs to cannons which are immune to flanking from knights. I checked. At your current rate of research it takes 13 turn to research steel. Use those 13 turns to build some rifles. That might be a good time to pop the GP for your Golden Age.
A couple notes on the above mentioned GA:
1: Prior to starting your GA go into Medina and add 3 more scientists. This will give you a GS 1 turn before you finish rifling and you will be able to move him to Mecca to found an academy the exact turn you finish rifling to start a GA. Having an acdemy in Mecca for the boosted commerce from a GA and Bureaucracy is pretty good. If you don't force a GS from Medina, then in 9 turns Aksum is going to spit out some random GP with only a 6% chance of a Great Scientist and a close to 60% chance of either a artist or prophet (boooo!) and a 12% chance of a spy which you really don't need.
2: start a Golden Age when rifling is finished. I would drop the slider a notch to start saving gold for upgrading maces and trebs. With the academy you should be about 8 turns from steel if I did the math right and making 250+ in gold. You can finish steel one turn earlier if you don't adjust the slider but it costs you about 250 gpt.
3: When the GA starts, go to gaul and run as many scientist as possible. I know you want the university done quickly, but you only get 1 extra hammer and a couple commerce from the GA. You get double the GPP. A few turns into the GA you should be getting your random GP from aksum. Probably a priest/artist or maybe a spy. Could be a scientist or engineer but don't count on it. Though you could run a engineer rather than a spy in aksum to try and help out.
4. On turn 8 of the GA (if my math is right. You get a Great Scientist in Gaul. and are 15 turns from another one. Save him to use with the loser GP/GA you probably got from aksum. At this point Steel should be done. That gives you 22 turns to crank out rifles and cannons at GA speed.
5. After steel is done switch to vassalage and police state. Research dips a little bit but you want the exp and speed for the next 20+ turns. I wouldn't advise going for nation hood to whip during the GA because that is people not working the tiles for the boosted commerce and hammers. You should be able to pump out enough units without drafting. Estrucian should be able produce a rifleman every 2 turns in the GA's that is 15 from one city. And you only need them for defending cities you capture. Offensively you have enough maces that can be upgraded to CR rifles.
6. Halfway through the 2nd GA you get another scientist from Gaul. @ this point if you switch back to working the mines you can use the rest of the GA to finish your university.
On stuff your cities are currenly building.
A. Bagdad is building an observatory? It has a whopping 16 base commerce. Are you planning on making it a little GP farm? It looks like a nice production city. You might consider just eating the 51 hammers invested rather than investing 175 more for an extra ONE beaker per turn at 40% science.
B. Mecca is building a Camel archer. A unit that is pretty much obsolete. It does not have a University. If you start one now and one in Gondor(15 turn build) next turn and in Estrucan(9 turn build) in 3 turns, you can have Oxford done by about the end of the first GA. That means you get the beneifits of both a University AND Oxford for the enitire 2nd GA.
C. Medina is building a pikeman. Again an about to be obsolete unit. Granted when you pull 3 citizens off of mines to force the Great Scientist you're really producing much of anything. Might as well build wealth. Or a treb that is a cheap upgrade. Never have enough disposable siege units.
And finally a thought on the GG you have stored away in Aksum. You might want to build a Military Academy in Washington. I don't know if you remember the two settled GG's there. With WP you have a city that can produce level 4 units without a civic. Just a granary and a barracks. Loads of food and production. It can even draft CG3 rifles from time to time.
Ok, I am off to bed in a bit. Great couple of rounds. But that is what we expected considering this is your 22nd ALC game. LOL, that being said, please take my advise with a grain of salt. Just some observations from a guy drinking coffee @ 2am
Well that round went about as well as can be expected. 
I would say this game's just about won.
A few random thoughts about the round and some suggestions:
This is a minor point, since the odds were high as it is, but you do realize that attacking across a river is not the best move, right? Since it's a 2
unit the CA should move onto the ivory to the west and then attack the city to avoid the river crossing penalty.
Really. With 19 cities I would have thought a free Rep-boosted scientist/merchant with 6 total
/
would have been worth more than one extra trade route per city and the foreign trade routes from 1 civ (you would have gotten Zara's trade routes even under Merc.). And then when you factor in the extra GPPs from the specialists I would have thought Merc. would be the obvious winner when running an SE.
I'm not sure there's much value in spreading religions at this point. If you're going to go with FR for most of the rest of the game the only advantage you'd get would be extra
. That isn't insignificant, but how long do you think you'll have to wait to get other religions to spread and get monasteries built? SciMeth leads to Bio, which is especially important when running an SE. And then there's Physics with its free GS.
And of course one of the advantages of being Spiritual is that you can switch into OR as needed to build missionaries (possibly using Slavery or US at the same time so you can hurry missionary building).
Also I should point out that if you weren't going to finish SciMeth at that point you should have waited to use the GS bulb, since more pop in your empire at the time of the bulb would have meant more from it.
Actually looking at the save Sury has more of a cottage spam going than Pacal. How Pacal managed to become such a teching machine with such lousy land is beyond me. Maybe lots of shrines?
You're definitely going to need some additional overseas land to reach the domination limit. You've got 31% and Sury has less than 21%, and even though there's some unclaimed tiles on the continent at the moment I don't see you reaching the 64% threshhold. The good news is that is that when it comes time to invade all the islands will make things easier since you won't face much threat of a counter-attack. It's much easier than invading a continent.
And while Pacal's cities may have lots of goodies it won't really do you any good since the game will be essentially over when you get them into your greedy hands.
Monty's known Pacal since he finished off Egypt and hasn't seen fit to attack him yet, so I doubt that will change. The only real danger you face from Monty is a Pearl Harbor style sneak attack on one of your coastal cities. I've had that happen to me a few times in BtS. You'll need to have strong garrisons in each of your coastal cities (or at least the ones you can't afford to be captured like Estruscan and Aksum). Or a complete naval picket line to see an invasion force before it gets close enough to attack. The problem with that is it can be a little MM intensive, since Sentry ships won't activate when Monty's fleet passes if you're at peace with him.
As CivCorpse pointed out you could research Steel next to avoid flanking attack damage from knights. Of course if Sury techs MT next then you'd be better off with trebs going up against his cuirassiers.
Another option is to keep the trebs/cats out of harm's way at the start of the war. Use spies to knock down defenses of the first Khmer city. The AI isn't patient enough to save its units, so Sury's knights will be used to counter-attack that city. After they've met their demise you can send in the siege to lead the attack against the rest of the Khmer cities.
Baghdad would also be a good candidate for IW city. More high
tiles, but less food, so I'm not sure which would be better.
One more thing I would add to this list:
D. Estruscan is building a customs house to boost trade revenue. But it doesn't have most of the/ multiplier buildings. Since this is your HE city I would have just skipped the customs house and kept building units there.
I would say this game's just about won.A few random thoughts about the round and some suggestions:
Someone was asking about the Camel Archers. Here's a screenie of one in battle, though not facing particularly onerous odds.
This is a minor point, since the odds were high as it is, but you do realize that attacking across a river is not the best move, right? Since it's a 2
unit the CA should move onto the ivory to the west and then attack the city to avoid the river crossing penalty.Really. With 19 cities I would have thought a free Rep-boosted scientist/merchant with 6 total
/ would have been worth more than one extra trade route per city and the foreign trade routes from 1 civ (you would have gotten Zara's trade routes even under Merc.). And then when you factor in the extra GPPs from the specialists I would have thought Merc. would be the obvious winner when running an SE.I'm not sure there's much value in spreading religions at this point. If you're going to go with FR for most of the rest of the game the only advantage you'd get would be extra
. That isn't insignificant, but how long do you think you'll have to wait to get other religions to spread and get monasteries built? SciMeth leads to Bio, which is especially important when running an SE. And then there's Physics with its free GS. And of course one of the advantages of being Spiritual is that you can switch into OR as needed to build missionaries (possibly using Slavery or US at the same time so you can hurry missionary building).
Also I should point out that if you weren't going to finish SciMeth at that point you should have waited to use the GS bulb, since more pop in your empire at the time of the bulb would have meant more
from it.Actually looking at the save Sury has more of a cottage spam going than Pacal. How Pacal managed to become such a teching machine with such lousy land is beyond me. Maybe lots of shrines?
You're definitely going to need some additional overseas land to reach the domination limit. You've got 31% and Sury has less than 21%, and even though there's some unclaimed tiles on the continent at the moment I don't see you reaching the 64% threshhold. The good news is that is that when it comes time to invade all the islands will make things easier since you won't face much threat of a counter-attack. It's much easier than invading a continent.
And while Pacal's cities may have lots of goodies it won't really do you any good since the game will be essentially over when you get them into your greedy hands.
Monty's known Pacal since he finished off Egypt and hasn't seen fit to attack him yet, so I doubt that will change. The only real danger you face from Monty is a Pearl Harbor style sneak attack on one of your coastal cities. I've had that happen to me a few times in BtS. You'll need to have strong garrisons in each of your coastal cities (or at least the ones you can't afford to be captured like Estruscan and Aksum). Or a complete naval picket line to see an invasion force before it gets close enough to attack. The problem with that is it can be a little MM intensive, since Sentry ships won't activate when Monty's fleet passes if you're at peace with him.
As CivCorpse pointed out you could research Steel next to avoid flanking attack damage from knights. Of course if Sury techs MT next then you'd be better off with trebs going up against his cuirassiers.
Another option is to keep the trebs/cats out of harm's way at the start of the war. Use spies to knock down defenses of the first Khmer city. The AI isn't patient enough to save its units, so Sury's knights will be used to counter-attack that city. After they've met their demise you can send in the siege to lead the attack against the rest of the Khmer cities.
Baghdad would also be a good candidate for IW city. More high
tiles, but less food, so I'm not sure which would be better.One more thing I would add to this list:
D. Estruscan is building a customs house to boost trade revenue. But it doesn't have most of the
/ multiplier buildings. Since this is your HE city I would have just skipped the customs house and kept building units there.Scarredroman
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 274
No, I haven't been looking at the save files.
I keep forgetting grenadiers got put back - that still leaves lots of pikemen as a suitable counter.
That's not very accommodating of Sury. If the ai works out that you aren't ready to fight Sury, now, the ai should DoW.
I'm merely comparing the base hammers. You haven't provided any other information.
So what are the respective hammers of two cities? Current and planned before you have to decide where the ironworks is going to go.
Really, I must be suffering from a bts game bug. It's not as though you have any plans for that GG, now is it?
You did turn production around most impressively. Outproducing Sury 2:1 already would seem to imply that you're trying to sucker the ai (by having civilian builds rather than military ) into DoWing you. I think your power rating is too close to Sury's for it to fall for it, though all those trebs and cats are a really juicy target.
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 3,663
A whole bunch of coastal cities, and a Little Birdhouse in his Soul?
Oh, and Great Generals cannot start golden ages, and even if they could, that would be a
Just settle him
, thats will be another 3 extra beakers per turn under representation and better units.Not to mention that he was able to reach a second fairly large landmass for a lot of intercontinental trade routes.
Tyrant Roger
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2006
- Messages
- 203
How do you learn what payout you will get from sending a GM to a foreign city without actually doing it?
TM Moot
King
iirc, activate the GM, click on the GoTo button, scroll to and and select the target city
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
First off, CivCorpse, thank you for that very thorough analysis. I will very likely implement everything you've suggested.
will be helpful. I'm not planning on building a bunch of missionaries just yet--I'd just like to get the monasteries in place. Mind you, if I really need them, I can just leverage Spiritual and switch into OR for a few turns, as you said.
Yes, but I had several other slow-moving units there in a very small stack and wanted the protection of defensive terrain. Fortunately Seattle was not well-defended, so IIRC all my units survived their battles.This is a minor point, since the odds were high as it is, but you do realize that attacking across a river is not the best move, right? Since it's a 2
Yes, looking at it again, I think you're right. Monty will probably get Banking soon and switch to Mercantilism himself, so I'll probably switch back pretty soon if not right away. The free specialists will also play into CivCorpse's plans.Really. With 19 cities I would have thought a free Rep-boosted scientist/merchant with 6 total
I think Pacal is going to beat me to most of those free Great People--I just got extremely lucky with the GM from Economics, since he had all the prerequisite techs himself. As for spreading religions, IIRC Pacal has Constitution and Sury is researching it, which means that I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of them research Democracy and switch to Emancipation in the next round. Since I'll be starting what promises to be a long war with lots of WW, having the extraI'm not sure there's much value in spreading religions at this point. If you're going to go with FR for most of the rest of the game the only advantage you'd get would be extra
will be helpful. I'm not planning on building a bunch of missionaries just yet--I'd just like to get the monasteries in place. Mind you, if I really need them, I can just leverage Spiritual and switch into OR for a few turns, as you said. Well, keep in mind that Monty lacked the means to attack Pacal--he only recently acquired Astronomy. But your warning is a good one--the important coastal cities will, indeed, need to be well defended. As for a naval picket line--what about Privateers? We haven't discussed their use yet. Most of the other civs have Chemistry and Frigates now, but Monty does not. For a certain period of time, I could deploy Privateers along his coast that will keep an eye on his navy and possibly even tie up his Galleons, while collecting XPs and blockade gold along the way. And if he does launch an invasion force of Galleons, I would have warning and could sink several of them before they get to my shores.Monty's known Pacal since he finished off Egypt and hasn't seen fit to attack him yet, so I doubt that will change. The only real danger you face from Monty is a Pearl Harbor style sneak attack on one of your coastal cities. I've had that happen to me a few times in BtS. You'll need to have strong garrisons in each of your coastal cities (or at least the ones you can't afford to be captured like Estruscan and Aksum). Or a complete naval picket line to see an invasion force before it gets close enough to attack. The problem with that is it can be a little MM intensive, since Sentry ships won't activate when Monty's fleet passes if you're at peace with him.
Medina has a better food supply, so to my mind it's a better choice.Baghdad would also be a good candidate for IW city. More high
Kev
Hired Goon
Although the capture of Boston will give Surly an additional source of horses, both sources seem to be fairly close to the borders and might make good targets for immediate pillaging (you do have some EP points on him) and/or for taking the closer cities when war is on. Doesn't seem that Pacal has any extra to trade to him (unless he gets a second on Sugar Island or agreed to trade his only supply) - not sure about Monty (though Monty does not seem to care too much for Surly).
Once done and you can take the nearby cities plus whichever others you end up with, it at least would likely mean a lack of mounted units being built. If you had to stop and rest before you re-declare, this would be nice to know.
Just trying to find something that hasn't been mentioned yet. Everyone here is so dang thorough it makes it hard to comment other than "yeah - THAT".
Once done and you can take the nearby cities plus whichever others you end up with, it at least would likely mean a lack of mounted units being built. If you had to stop and rest before you re-declare, this would be nice to know.
Just trying to find something that hasn't been mentioned yet. Everyone here is so dang thorough it makes it hard to comment other than "yeah - THAT".
DMOC
Mathematician
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Messages
- 5,594
iirc, activate the GM, click on the GoTo button, scroll to and and select the target city
What is the "GoTo" button?
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
RE: Pacal's tech ability
Pacal is a wonder-building, tech monster. Think of him like a more aggressive Mansa Musa. Any financial civ allowed to tech peacefully is trouble.
Pacal is a wonder-building, tech monster. Think of him like a more aggressive Mansa Musa. Any financial civ allowed to tech peacefully is trouble.
the "GoTo" button is the button that appears after you select a unit. One could call it an alternative to clicking with the mouse at your destination. ... I believe the button looks like "O--------X" But in a curve or something.
EDIT: If your still confused read the manual
I have no idea how to describe it any better, but the manual has got pictures! And EVERYBODY loves pictures!
I still think that the Mayans are a waste of time right now. From my experience with Pacal, once he gets to the point in the game where he has a good tech lead, he likes to sit on it unless your a REALLY easy target. You should be able to push through Sury with relative ease and then start on your next destination. As long as your power rating stays high, you should be in the clear, maybe gift things and get friendly with him, or even being pleased should keep him off your back for good.
Four more reasons for attacking Monty and not Pacal
1. Technology - Monty is HORRIBLY behind on techs, and I dont think anybody is going to be trading any to him for awhile, this means your cannons are going to have a field day with him.
2. Size - Monty has more land under his control
3. Time - Monty is on (basically) one continent, and with your tech lead, a couple of stacks will take you right through him. Dont raze any cities and the game is yours before you know it
4. Monty - Monty is Monty. He likes to warmonger more than Sis... which is hard to believe, so your probably going to be in a war with him no matter what you do.
I also dont think any reason for attacking Pacal is because of his land or cities/wonders. We are going for a domination victory and picking our last target, the game shouldnt last more than 40 or 50 more turns after we move in on him, are the quality of cities really that important?
Nother quick point, since we are spiritual and can switch things whenever we need to, when we move into Monty or Pacal, its always fun to whip away the unhappiness, or draft up a new army on the spot. ... Or both!
Stop worrying about religions, If you are concerned with the AP telling you to stop warring, just spread a non-AP religion to all your cities, and go to FR with the Paya. Defy resolutions and it wont be that big of a deal (this is also another reason not to attack Pacal, he is probably not going to help out Monty with the AP, but I dont think this is a good enough reason to not attack Pacal, just an annoyance if you do). If Pacal really wants, he can waste hammers shipping the AP religion (Taoism? I didn't even look...) over to your continent.
The only reason I can think of attacking Pacal instead of Monty is Murphy's Law (What can go wrong will go wrong). I would MUCH rather be fighting Pacal on his continent and Monty on mine, than the other way around. Pacal could easily make this game more difficult if worse came to worse, but I think with some mild diplomacy you can avoid that with no problem.
As for Sury, I like what everyone else has to say CivCorpse specially
I would start working on a fleet soonish... very soonish.
Yea, your not going to be getting ANY more freebies... I have no idea how you got that GM. But hey! Good work!
I know I am talking about the distant future, but hey, we got to plan ahead right?
And lastly, when referring to the ALC games... should I use "We" or "You" ... ? (We should do this or You should do this, I think this question is mostly directed towards Sis)
EDIT: If your still confused read the manual
I have no idea how to describe it any better, but the manual has got pictures! And EVERYBODY loves pictures!I still think that the Mayans are a waste of time right now. From my experience with Pacal, once he gets to the point in the game where he has a good tech lead, he likes to sit on it unless your a REALLY easy target. You should be able to push through Sury with relative ease and then start on your next destination. As long as your power rating stays high, you should be in the clear, maybe gift things and get friendly with him, or even being pleased should keep him off your back for good.
Four more reasons for attacking Monty and not Pacal
1. Technology - Monty is HORRIBLY behind on techs, and I dont think anybody is going to be trading any to him for awhile, this means your cannons are going to have a field day with him.
2. Size - Monty has more land under his control
3. Time - Monty is on (basically) one continent, and with your tech lead, a couple of stacks will take you right through him. Dont raze any cities and the game is yours before you know it
4. Monty - Monty is Monty. He likes to warmonger more than Sis... which is hard to believe, so your probably going to be in a war with him no matter what you do.
I also dont think any reason for attacking Pacal is because of his land or cities/wonders. We are going for a domination victory and picking our last target, the game shouldnt last more than 40 or 50 more turns after we move in on him, are the quality of cities really that important?
Nother quick point, since we are spiritual and can switch things whenever we need to, when we move into Monty or Pacal, its always fun to whip away the unhappiness, or draft up a new army on the spot. ... Or both!
Stop worrying about religions, If you are concerned with the AP telling you to stop warring, just spread a non-AP religion to all your cities, and go to FR with the Paya. Defy resolutions and it wont be that big of a deal (this is also another reason not to attack Pacal, he is probably not going to help out Monty with the AP, but I dont think this is a good enough reason to not attack Pacal, just an annoyance if you do). If Pacal really wants, he can waste hammers shipping the AP religion (Taoism? I didn't even look...) over to your continent.
The only reason I can think of attacking Pacal instead of Monty is Murphy's Law (What can go wrong will go wrong). I would MUCH rather be fighting Pacal on his continent and Monty on mine, than the other way around. Pacal could easily make this game more difficult if worse came to worse, but I think with some mild diplomacy you can avoid that with no problem.
As for Sury, I like what everyone else has to say CivCorpse specially
I would start working on a fleet soonish... very soonish.
Yea, your not going to be getting ANY more freebies... I have no idea how you got that GM. But hey! Good work!
I know I am talking about the distant future, but hey, we got to plan ahead right?
And lastly, when referring to the ALC games... should I use "We" or "You" ... ? (We should do this or You should do this, I think this question is mostly directed towards Sis)
Bandobras Took
Emperor
Try "one" e.g. "One should go on a whipping spree at this point. One should pound Monty's ugly face into the dirt," etc.
Try "one" e.g. "One should go on a whipping spree at this point. One should pound Monty's ugly face into the dirt," etc.
I do understand the concept of using "one." But, in this case, I am referring to a specific person, Sisiutil, which would add cause for using "you." If I was saying something like, "Whenever one goes on an intercontinental conquest..." I would use the word "one," since I am referring to anybody, anywhere, at anytime. Since Sisiutil is doing each of the actions, "you" seems appropriate, but, since this is a collective, with Sisiutil as the leader, "we" seems appropriate then.
Talk about off-topic... don't yell at me.
Ugh, this feels like High-School English class all over again, the "Joys" of formal writing.
