EgonSpengler
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2014
- Messages
- 11,755
So long, gorgeous. You had a good run.
Got all caught up on SNW Friday.
Is good. Shame they got rid of Hemmer so soon, right as he was getting some good character building. Though apparently the actor was told it was only ever going to be a one season role and his character was less a 'main character' and more a support for Uhura, which is okay. At least they had a plan with the character and didn't just kill him because they didn't know what to do.
Pike might actually be my favorite captain. At least he is giving Picard some serious competition.
I'm glad everything went well with SNW. It is like the studio heard everyone saying episode 2 of Disco2 (Terralysium) was such a great episode and decided to commission a series of Terralysiums.
Valka, I get you have an instinctive reaction to dislike all new Star Trek, but I highly recommend Strange New Worlds.
[/QUOTE]In the case of writing a sequel, a spinoff, or a fanfic, I think it's incumbent upon the writer to honor the original material.
This is especially tricky in a prequel, because not only shouldn't you dismiss or contradict something the original has already established - a character trait, a plot point - but you also shouldn't introduce something new that would logically impact subsequent events or characters (subsequent in the timeline of the story). Alternate universes provide a nice opening to relieve yourself of that burden, as J.J. Abrams did with his movie. He could basically do whatever he wanted without worrying about continuity.
And with that extra level of difficulty in mind, I find that a lot of prequels simply didn't need to be prequels in the first place. The writers set the bar needlessly high for themselves, then got no payoff on the extra risk, and then some of them slam their faces into the bar, adding injury to insult. This was true for both Enterprise and Discovery (with one caveat - see below). There was no reason Enterprise couldn't have taken place after Voyager, and Discovery later still, alongside Picard.
The best prequels actually pick up on a dangling thread or unexplained nit, and fill it in for us, making the subsequent stories (again, 'subsequent' in the story's canonical timeline) better or clearer, or just more fun. The were actually two moments where ENT seized the day and did benefit from being a prequel, imho, in the episodes "Regeneration" and "In a Mirror, Darkly." The former clarified - and, imho, enhanced - the relationship between Picard and Q, and in the latter, we learned that Mirror Universe Sato became Empress as a result of acquiring the advanced warship from 'our' universe. (Was it ever said in Discovery whether Emperor Georgiou was a direct descendant of Empress Sato? I can't remember. If she was, I suppose it would follow that 'our' Georgiou was 'our' Hoshi's granddaughter, or whatever.)
Discovery was the worse offender. It abruptly introduced a Human sister of Spock, which is precisely the kind of thing prequels have to watch out for, and it really rubbed me with the wrong way with its depiction of Klingons. Both were a little insulting, in addition to not being very compelling or interesting, nor enriching what we already knew of those characters. If Discovery took place after Voyager (and after Enterprise, if I'd had my way) and those Klingons had been a whole new species of aliens, I would have thought "the writers had some good ideas and didn't quite pull them off, but oh well, you can't win 'em all." Burnham could still have been raised among Vulcans, her father didn't need to be Sarek and her brother didn't need to be Spock. Instead, they casually compromised decades of work by the writers that came before them and the interest of the fans that followed those stories, all for nothing. There was no payoff to this story about Klingons, taking place before even the events of TOS. Remember the episode of DS9 when some of the crew went back to "The Trouble With Tribbles" and O'Brien turns to Worf and says "Those are Klingons?" I think Worf says something like "We don't like to talk about it", with his typical taciturn delivery. That was self-aware and self-deprecating. The Klingon story arc in Discovery was just arrogant.
My nerd-scanners did ping once while watching SNW: I haven't seen "Space Seed" in years, but does the presence of La'an on the bridge of the Enterprise have any bearing on how Kirk and, especially, Spock reacted to or interacted with Khan? Or, rather, should knowing La'an have impacted Spock's later meeting with Khan, except we know that it didn't? I hope not, because I like La'an. She's a little bit of a throwback to Tasha Yar*.
Anyway, that one little potential-wrinkle aside, Strange New Worlds could be the best prequel series I've ever seen, not just in Star Trek.
* Speaking of, Denise Crosby's departure was a major bummer at the time, but the eventual payoff was great, and that was an example of a "retcon" that was brilliantly done. "Yesterday's Enterprise" was another example of a story which took the audience for a ride, in terms of violating the "yes, and" rule of improv, but it did it really well and added a lot to both the established canon and the ongoing story; it begins as an alternate-universe story and then turns out to be a prequel (if you haven't seen it, and you're any kind of Star Trek fan, you absolutely need to).
89 is an excellent age to go.
Very loosely.Apparently SNW is a sequel to DiscoTrek, if I understand correctly.
Does Burnham exist in SNW's timeline? Are the Klingons the same as in DiscoTrek?Strange New Worlds has essentially no thematic, tonal, or story similarities with either Discovery or Picard.
In only the abstract. The "wiping of Discovery from Starfleet's history" in season whatever of Discovery is in effect. I think there might be one errant mention of that ship, and Burnham, in the first season. Also, there is no chance Discovery can be involved in SNW's story, for reasons.Does Burnham exist in SNW's timeline? Are the Klingons the same as in DiscoTrek?
In only the abstract. The "wiping of Discovery from Starfleet's history" in season whatever of Discovery is in effect. I think there might be one errant mention of that ship, and Burnham, in the first season. Also, there is no chance Discovery can be involved in SNW's story, for reasons.
There are no interactions with klingons in SNW thus far. But they "fixed" the klingons anyway in Discovery after realizing everyone hated them and that the new prosthetics made it impossible for the actors to speak.
You realize that I'm asking because so far I've found the newer series to be the Star Trek equivalent of Brussels sprouts and I hate those, right?
Wait, you dislike NuTrek?
No! 4 Times!considering the Gorn ever only appeared on-screen twice (well, three times technically)
You realize that I'm asking because so far I've found the newer series to be the Star Trek equivalent of Brussels sprouts and I hate those, right?
Yeah, TNG was one of those shows that took a minute to find itself. I'm not sure that show wouldn't get canceled after its first season today. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was like that, too. Both of those shows are among my all-time favorites, but I didn't start watching either of them regularly until their 2nd seasons, and many of their best moments were even later than that.For what it's worth, I dislike the Abrams movies (save for casting & music) and can't watch either Disco or Picard -- but Strange New Worlds? Hell, I'd take it over Enterprise, much of Voyager, and the first season or so of The Next Generation. It's golden.
Yeah, TNG was one of those shows that took a minute to find itself. I'm not sure that show wouldn't get canceled after its first season today. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was like that, too. Both of those shows are among my all-time favorites, but I didn't start watching either of them regularly until their 2nd seasons, and many of their best moments were even later than that.
These days it would be canceled for "Code of Honor" alone. Most of the 90s-era Trek shows took a few seasons to find their feet -- especially TNG and Voyager. The strength of SNW right out of the gate boggles my mind -- I think it helps to have such a strong ensemble cast. Anson Mount could easily dominate the show, but Ortegas and company have strong charisma of their own. Compare that to Disco, which is the Michael Burnam show, and Picard, which...well, has the singular virtue of featuring Patrick Stewart. I haven't made it far enough yet to encounter Jeri Ryan, though if I ever continue in the show she'll be the only reason.
Yesterday's Enterprise was my favorite, I think.Measure of a Man was probably the best early TNG episode (s2e9), but then season 3 also gave us Yesterday's Enterprise and Sarek, to name just two.