Allawi: "Iraq in Civil War"

[Red Stranger]

You know what. If Iraq falls into civil war, it's the Iraqis' own damn fault. How do you expect America to help you build a better government if you're not willing to take part in it. We have given them the perfect opportunity by ousting a brutal dicator and disbanning a murderous army. The Iraqis can easily take this opportunity to build a stable democracy, but instead what do they do? They go out and shoot each other. Don't expect us to feel sorry for your lives if you don't value it. We helped you oust a brutal dictator, don't expect us to change your diaper too.

 

[Winner]

how many people must die before it is 'classifided' as a war. Is there some number set by the UN that determins how many people must die before you can start asking 'why has this happening?'.

Actually, it is: 1000 dead per year in a continuous conflict.

 

[FriendlyFire]

You know what. If Iraq falls into civil war, it's the Iraqis' own damn fault. How do you expect America to help you build a better government if you're not willing to take part in it. We have given them the perfect opportunity by ousting a brutal dicator and disbanning a murderous army. The Iraqis can easily take this opportunity to build a stable democracy, but instead what do they do? They go out and shoot each other. Don't expect us to feel sorry for your lives if you don't value it. We helped you oust a brutal dictator, don't expect us to change your diaper too.

yeah why cant Iraqs be grateful ? Its not like the Bush administration was forcing the carefully selected INC down your throats, outsourcing all reconstruction work, disbanded the law enforcement forces without any viable replacement. Failing to provided sercurity. Inviting terrorist to "bring it on", squandering the goodwill of the iraq people. incomepetent reconstructions which breed resentment and deepen mistrust.

On a more less bias note: It is in fact part responsibility of the Iraq people to choose.

Better a corrupted incompetent US puppet government then al out civil war.

 

[silver 2039]

You know what. If Iraq falls into civil war, it's the Iraqis' own damn fault. How do you expect America to help you build a better government if you're not willing to take part in it. We have given them the perfect opportunity by ousting a brutal dicator and disbanning a murderous army. The Iraqis can easily take this opportunity to build a stable democracy, but instead what do they do? They go out and shoot each other. Don't expect us to feel sorry for your lives if you don't value it. We helped you oust a brutal dictator, don't expect us to change your diaper too.

Did the Iraqi's ask for your precious democracy? Did they ask for their country to be bombed and invaded and their people killed? Did they ask for their leader to be outsed? Did they ask for their army to be disbanded?

Obiviously one would get the idea that the Iraqis AREN"T BLOODY INTREASTED!!

It is America who started this mess unprovokedly and without reason now it is America's problem and duty to fix it. You started it, you deal with the results.

 

[h4ppy]

It seems to me that some parts of Iraq ARE BLOODY INTREASTED!! (Hello Kurdistan, and I guess I'll throw in the Shittes too since they atleast wanted teh previous government gone)

 

[Rambuchan]

People quibbled over whether Rwanda was a genocide in the making. People are still quibbling over Darfur. We're quibbling over Iraq now, for the sake of pride. People are dying and a country is being RUINED while we sit around wondering what to call this.

Once more the critics of this war are - most sadly - having their fears realised.

 

[Kayak]

People quibbled over whether Rwanda was a genocide in the making. People are still quibbling over Darfur. We're quibbling over Iraq now, for the sake of pride. People are dying and a country is being RUINED while we sit around wondering what to call this.

Once more the critics of this war are - most sadly - having their fears realised.

We are also sitting around wondering what to do too. Because obviously the Bush administration is all out of ideas.

 

[silver 2039]

It seems to me that some parts of Iraq ARE BLOODY INTREASTED!! (Hello Kurdistan, and I guess I'll throw in the Shittes too since they atleast wanted teh previous government gone)

Just because they are taking part in the govenrment does not mean they wanted their country to be invaded and democracy shoved down their throath at gunpoint.

 

[Sanaz]

You know what. If Iraq falls into civil war, it's the Iraqis' own damn fault. How do you expect America to help you build a better government if you're not willing to take part in it. We have given them the perfect opportunity by ousting a brutal dicator and disbanning a murderous army. The Iraqis can easily take this opportunity to build a stable democracy, but instead what do they do? They go out and shoot each other. Don't expect us to feel sorry for your lives if you don't value it. We helped you oust a brutal dictator, don't expect us to change your diaper too.

The reason that this was destined for civil war from day one is, there is no "Iraqi" people. There are the Kurds, the Shia, and the Sunni. For all useful purposes, they are three separate peoples who happen to live in the same region. Under Hussein, the Kurds were shunned strongly, the Shia were not represented at all, and the Sunni were favored (even though it was a secular government, remember). When the Shia were given their share of power, and the Kurds were still shunned (because everyone hates the Kurds...), and there was no dictator to hold it all together in some twisted fashion, civil war becomes inevitable. There is no simple way out, it is why the US helped put Hussein in charge in the first place 30-40 years ago. That is still probably the way this will end, with another dictator holding the mess together to bring stability to a very valuable region. Bush is an idiot, this is why his father didn't remove Hussein. His dad was a smart man surrounded by smart people, especially relative to his semi-******** offspring.

 

[CartesianFart]

The reason that this was destined for civil war from day one is, there is no "Iraqi" people. There are the Kurds, the Shia, and the Sunni. For all useful purposes, they are three separate peoples who happen to live in the same region. Under Hussein, the Kurds were shunned strongly, the Shia were not represented at all, and the Sunni were favored (even though it was a secular government, remember). When the Shia were given their share of power, and the Kurds were still shunned (because everyone hates the Kurds...), and there was no dictator to hold it all together in some twisted fashion, civil war becomes inevitable. There is no simple way out, it is why the US helped put Hussein in charge in the first place 30-40 years ago. That is still probably the way this will end, with another dictator holding the mess together to bring stability to a very valuable region. Bush is an idiot, this is why his father didn't remove Hussein. His dad was a smart man surrounded by smart people, especially relative to his semi-******** offspring.

I guess it takes a semi-****** to know a semi-******.
I bet you that you are one of those individuals that like to picket alone in Washington DC in protest the war in Iraq.

 

[silver 2039]

Bush is an idiot, this is why his father didn't remove Hussein. His dad was a smart man surrounded by smart people, especially relative to his semi-******** offspring.

You're exageratting. Such a person cannot become President of America.

Of course that would reflect on the American constitueancy would it not?

 

[h4ppy]

Just because they are taking part in the govenrment does not mean they wanted their country to be invaded and democracy shoved down their throath at gunpoint.

I'm pretty sure the Kurds did want an invasion.

 

[Masquerouge]

You know what. If Iraq falls into civil war, it's the Iraqis' own damn fault. How do you expect America to help you build a better government if you're not willing to take part in it. We have given them the perfect opportunity by ousting a brutal dicator and disbanning a murderous army. The Iraqis can easily take this opportunity to build a stable democracy, but instead what do they do? They go out and shoot each other. Don't expect us to feel sorry for your lives if you don't value it. We helped you oust a brutal dictator, don't expect us to change your diaper too.

Everybody not for the Iraq war warned the US this would happen. France especially. That was why Saddam remained in place after the first gulf war. He was a bastard of a tyran, but the place had stability, which I agree is cynicism in politics 101 for you.
The US figured that they could remove it and set up a democracy fast enough in order to prevent instability blowing up the country. I sure wish they are right because I wouldn't wish a civil war on anyone, but maybe you need to put yourself in the Iraqi's place.
By invading Iraq the US assumed full responsibility of what would happen next. You can't just wage wars around the globe and complain because peple do not behave.

 

[Sidhe]

The war was a lesson in quick and well implemented tactical assault the post war was a lesson in what happens when you don't actually have a post war plan.

 

[Elrohir]

Someone needs to send Allawi a book on the US civil war. So then he'll know what one really is. Compared to that, the "civil war" in Iraq is a bar room brawl.

 

[Masquerouge]

Someone needs to send Allawi a book on the US civil war. So then he'll know what one really is. Compared to that, the "civil war" in Iraq is a bar room brawl.

Well, every civil war has to start at some point, you know. I'm not sure the families of the thousands of Iraqi killed by insurgents would like to be told that they need a few more deaths before their little struggle can come close to the American Civil War, which is apparently the new standard in terms of Civil war...

 

[Elrohir]

Well, every civil war has to start at some point, you know. I'm not sure the families of the thousands of Iraqi killed by insurgents would like to be told that they need a few more deaths before their little struggle can come close to the American Civil War, which is apparently the new standard in terms of Civil war...

True, but Allawi was not saying that Iraq was headed towards a civil war, he said it was in the midst of it now. There is a marked difference.

 

[Masquerouge]

True, but Allawi was not saying that Iraq was headed towards a civil war, he said it was in the midst of it now. There is a marked difference.

But what makes the American Civil War such a standard that you're using it to dismiss the Iraqi civil war ?

Mind you, I'm not saying that there is a civil war in Iraq right now. I just find the idea of dismissing it only because it has not yet reached the scale of the American one preposterous.

 

[h4ppy]

Its not just that. There is no frontier in this war. Whats more is that there are no full time armies. And yes, I do consider those to be important distinctions.

 

[Fox Mccloud]

Someone needs to send Allawi a book on the US civil war. So then he'll know what one really is. Compared to that, the "civil war" in Iraq is a bar room brawl.

That's right. Also, send him books about the Russian Civil War, Chinese Civil War, Spanish Civil War, etc.

Also, there is some improvement in Iraq, too.