Altered Maps V: The Molotov-Threadentropp Pact

[cardgame]

Missouri is full of win in that map

 

[sophie]

It does seem odd that the map-maker was willing to name other states after their (presumed) capitals but felt the need to add a qualifier in this case. I suppose the difference is that while "San Francisco Bay Area" is an accepted term, it is distinct from, say, "Greater London" in that the city draws it's name from the bay, and so does not directly bestow it's name upon the metropolitan area; it is merely the most significant city of the group. It may seem like a somewhat pedantic distinction, but I'm sure it's one that would be relevant to the area's inhabitants; if I recall correctly, the City of San Francisco itself is a rather smaller part of it's metropolitan area than the rather fuzzy understanding of the name by most outsiders may imply.

Bay area is a much better name for that district as it also includes the much larger city of San Jose (1 million people, 10th largest city in the US). That's probably why it's labeled the way it is.

 

[Dachs]

Figure out what I changed! The year is 600.

Link to map

Spoiler map :

 

[gangleri2001]

Figure out what I changed!

Still trying to figure out

PS: Is not working.

 

[Dachs]

You could ask me about stuff...

 

[RedRalph]

I dont really know what the world looked like in 600, but here are a few guesses...

Is that the Caliphate in Spain? they never got the whole southern Coast of France, did they?

Whats the country in Napolia/Dalmatia/Albania?

 

[gangleri2001]

Is that the Caliphate in Spain? they never got the whole southern Coast of France, did they?

In 600 there wasn't even Islam...

I clicked on your link. Now I see the map. Let's see what changes I've seen (post coming).

 

[Dachs]

The thing in Spain is called 'Hattolandam' by its rulers, and 'Xattia' by everyone else. No such thing as a Caliphate, I'm afraid.

That's the Greek kingdom of Chaonia.

 

[RedRalph]

Ah. That's a pretty glaring and embarassing mistake on my part.

 

[choxorn]

You seem to have made the Byzantine Empire break into several parts. There's also, mysteriously, nobody anywhere in the new world.

That's all I have for now, but I don't know what the world looked like in 600.

 

[Dachs]

The Byzantine Empire, in that world, never existed. :3

 

[gangleri2001]

These are the changes I've seen on Dachs' map (all states have been called kingdom to make everything easier):

Europe:
1. Über-visigothic kingdom rules over the Gibraltar strait, the whole iberian peninsula and parts of their former tolosan kingdom. No independence for vasconia.

2. Nuestria annexes parts of Austrasia and the briton kingdoms.

3. Über-Gwynnedd, Über-Strathclyde and Über-Anglia.

4. Aquitaine tules over Burgundy.

5. Alamanns annex Thuringia and parts of Austrasia.

6. Lombards control the whole Po river and Tuscany.

7. Sicilian kingdom rules over Sicily, southwestern italy, carthaginian territories and Caralis.

8. No Avar Khaganate and Byzantine empire, their territories are divided as follows:
a) Illirian kingdom rules over Illiria and southeastern Italy.
b) Thessalonikan kindgom.
c) Thracian Kindgdom.
d) Kutigur kingdom rules over the Danube.
e) Greek colonies of Crimea and the sea of Azov form the Fanagorian Kingdom.
f) Bursan Kingdom.
g) Konyan (?) kingdom.
h) Trans-sinainian Egypt.
i) Armenia (?).
j) Strange thassalocracy at Iskenderun.
k) Independent Trebizond.
l) Über-Onoguria.

Africa:
1. No Ghana.

2. Über-Axum rules over Axum, Bega, Yemen and Mecca.

3. Über-Makuria rules over Makuria, Nobatia and Alodia.

Asia:
1. Lakhmids, and not the Sassanids, rule over Mesopotamia (Kingdom of Baghdad).

2. Western Gökturk Khaganate divided into two parts (WGK and Über-Tuyuhun?).

3. Independent Tokharistan.

4. Über-Kapisa.

5. Über-Taaka.

6. Sindh controls Valabhi.

7. Kadambas, Alupa and Cheras are united.

8. Über-Pallavas controls Vengi, Chalukyas, Kalachuris and Nalas.

9. Über-Kannauj rules all over the Ganges.

10. Sui dynasty fails at unify China, Northern and Southern dynasties still going on.

11. Reduced domains of the Eastern Gökturk Khaganate.

12. No Goguryeo (under chinese and sillan control).

13. Silla annexes Baekje.

14. Über-Funan.

15. Reduced domains of Champa.

16. Japan annexes Tamna.

 

[Traitorfish]

The Britons seem to be holding out against the Anglo-Saxons rather more strongly than they did historically, and someone else- British Strathclyde, Anglic Northumbria or Pictish Whatever-It-Was-At-That-Point? (I'm ruling out Gaelic Dalriata, as it lacks the Irish and Hebridean territory)- has united a good chunk of Scotland and Northumbria.

 

[Dachs]

Spoiler Response to gangleri :

1. Über-visigothic kingdom rules over the Gibraltar strait, the whole iberian peninsula and parts of their former tolosan kingdom. No independence for vasconia.

Those are the Chatti, not the Visigoths.

2. Nuestria annexes parts of Austrasia and the briton kingdoms.

No such things as Franks either. That's the Silengoz [Siling Vandals] ruling over the Belgii.

3. Über-Gwynnedd, Über-Strathclyde and Über-Anglia.

"Kind of", yep, and "kind of" - those aren't Romano-British in Cambria, and they aren't just Angles, but rather all kinds of Eotenas.

4. Aquitaine tules over Burgundy.

No such thing as Aquitaine or Burgundy. That's called 'Bastarmrog' [Bastarnae overlords over a Celtic populace]

5. Alamanns annex Thuringia and parts of Austrasia.

More or less. Chiefly Germanic, but with a large number of Celts in the west; the whole thing is called "Vindelia".

6. Lombards control the whole Po river and Tuscany.

Those aren't the Lombards, they are the Aorsi.

7. Sicilian kingdom rules over Sicily, southwestern italy, carthaginian territories and Caralis.

Panormos is more of a republic than a kingdom.

8. No Avar Khaganate and Byzantine empire, their territories are divided as follows:

Avars? Closest thing to Avars is in that gray blob. And there never were any Byzantines, Byzantion itself is a fairly minor polis federated to the Thraikians.

a) Illirian kingdom rules over Illiria and southeastern Italy.

Chaonia, not Illyria.

b) Thessalonikan kindgom.

Makedonia, ruled from Pella, not Thessalonike.

c) Thracian Kindgdom.

Yeah, but they're mostly Greeks.

d) Kutigur kingdom rules over the Danube.

Ruxsalannoi, not Kutrigurs.

e) Greek colonies of Crimea and the sea of Azov form the Fanagorian Kingdom.

Bosporion Tyrranesis - Cimmerian Bosporan Kingdom.

f) Bursan Kingdom.

Mysia, ruled from Kios.

g) Konyan (?) kingdom.

Afyon, in our modern day; in this time period, that is the Pisidian kingdom, ruled from Akroinon.

h) Trans-sinainian Egypt.

More or less. But they aren't Egyptians...

i) Armenia (?).

Quite.

j) Strange thassalocracy at Iskenderun.

That's Antioch-on-the-Orontes, and it rules a country called the 'Arche Perseia'.

k) Independent Trebizond.

Basically.

l) Über-Onoguria.

Those are the Antes.

Africa:
1. No Ghana.

I was too lazy to include stuff outside the main belt of civilization. I also didn't want people who eventually played in the NES that I plan to base off of this map to be jerking themselves off by themselves in Ghana or Mesoamerica cause that'd suck to mod.

2. Über-Axum rules over Axum, Bega, Yemen and Mecca.

Yep.

3. Über-Makuria rules over Makuria, Nobatia and Alodia.

That's Alodia, actually. But well identified.

Asia:
1. Lakhmids, and not the Sassanids, rule over Mesopotamia (Kingdom of Baghdad).

That, my friend, is the sad, attenuated rump of the Arche Seleukeia [Seleukid Empire].

2. Western Gökturk Khaganate divided into two parts (WGK and Über-Tuyuhun?).

Neither of those is Gokturk. The yellow thing is a confederacy led by the Mazsakata [Massagetai]. The red is the Tantan Qaganate.

3. Independent Tokharistan.

Sogdiane.

4. Über-Kapisa.

Baktria.

5. Über-Taaka.

Kaspeiria.

6. Sindh controls Valabhi.

Patalene.

7. Kadambas, Alupa and Cheras are united.

Ganga Empire. [For lack of a better name.]

8. Über-Pallavas controls Vengi, Chalukyas, Kalachuris and Nalas.

More or less.

9. Über-Kannauj rules all over the Ganges.

That empire has taken the name 'Pala' because it's a great name for a dynasty. Kannauj is just a region name anyway; the capital is at Pataliputra because everybody puts their capital at Pataliputra.

10. Sui dynasty fails at unify China, Northern and Southern dynasties still going on.

No such thing as a Sui Dynasty. Those are the Houqin [Later Qin] Dynasty (light blue), founded by the Wusun; the Liang Dynasty (brown) founded by the Yuezhi; the Wu Dynasty (purple); the Nanyue Dynasty (yellow) with more or less the same makeup and rulership as the OTL Nanyue, and the Dayang [Great Yang] Dynasty (turquoise).

11. Reduced domains of the Eastern Gökturk Khaganate.

Dark blue is a Xianbei state.

13. Silla annexes Baekje.

Neither. That is Jinguk.

14. Über-Funan.

Nakhor Phnom [Funan] is only a tiny bit larger than OTL, and a great deal smaller than it used to be.

15. Reduced domains of Champa.

Not that much.

16. Japan annexes Tamna.

Sort of; Yamato took it from Jinguk.

So, given that, can you figure out the PoD?

 

[gangleri2001]

What's PoD?

 

[Dachs]

Point of Departure. The thing I changed to make all those little dominos fall over.

 

[holy king]

well, something devastating happened to rome pretty early.

Spoiler :

 

[gangleri2001]

Point of Departure. The thing I changed to make all those little dominos fall over.

I don't know, thousands of theories could make sense.

 

[RedRalph]

Point of Departure. The thing I changed to make all those little dominos fall over.

It's Point of Divergence, surely?

 

[Dachs]

I don't know, thousands of theories could make sense.

Yeah, but this ain't exactly a science. Kraz already guessed it on IRC. holyking was basically right - something bad happened to Rome early. That something was "losing their war with the Seleukid Empire [which, in TTL, still exists! hint] in 192-88 BC". Antiochos the Great, after losing the Battle of Magnesia, decided to bring up the rest of his army instead of agreeing to the truce that he did in OTL. The Roman army was destroyed, and the Seleukids launched a second invasion of Greece. Rome's overstretched manpower prevented them from responding seriously. Antiochos linked up with his Aitolian buddies, while Hannibal took ship for Africa and kicked off a coup in Carthage that brought them into the war, too; the Seleukids and their allies beat the Romans and their allies back into Italy itself. Things went downhill for Rome from there.

It's Point of Divergence, surely?

Divergence and Departure both work. Departure has fewer letters. :3