Symphony D.
Deity
I could / might, and would be willing to serve as an in-NES technology advisor, if I was guaranteed the United States. 
Alternate History Thread II...
- Thread starter Xen
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silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
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Yes help me with tech and you can have the US.
Symphony D.
Deity
Are you wanting just military, or civilian as well? In either case, it will take a day or two to research fully and write out.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
Here is a scenario I plan on doing at a later time. Around the 9th month probably. Symphony and Reno are not allowed to comment. Please note that many thing might be unrealistic and I am aware of it.
-----------------------------------------------------------
1997 - The sovereignty of Hong Kong is handed over by the UK to the PRC.
1999 - On January first Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, and Spain bowed to pressure and adopted the Euro (EUR) as their currency.
2002 - The Euro changeover was completed.
-On January 28th The Guilder (NLG) dies.
-On February 9th The Pound (IEP) dies.
-On February 17th The Franc (FRF) dies.
-On February 28th Schilling (ATS)
The Franc (BEF) dies.
The Deutsche Mark (DEM) dies.
The Peseta (ESP) dies.
The Markka (FIM) dies.
The Drachma (GRD) dies.
The Franc (LUF) dies.
The Escudo (PTE) dies.
The Lira (VAL) dies.
The Lira (ITL) dies.
-------------
2000-2030
For the better part, the majority of the world prospers greatly. (Well the Western nations and many developing nations) Certain parts of Africa and Middle East however remain in conflict as they have always been. It is termed as the new Golden Age. In the feeling of benevolence and good will at the time, the UN with the help of a few powerful influential figures manages to start project "Internet 3" that will allow unlimited bandwidth and literally free (well not free, but very cheap) internet and unify global communication through a single hub. However the project has met many difficulties from protesting corporations, profiters, to tele evangelists and politicans. As a result, the progress was significantly slowed down, as the project was flipped on and off at the whims of politicans.
In the 2020s Mechanical augmentations are just becoming widespread.
-In the early years of this decade work on nano-technology begins. The project has a number of difficulties. A self-replicating nanite that can interact with biological material has to be developed. The nanites must be able to interpret commands directly from the mind, and send information back to the mind in a form that can be interpreted. This will take many years to develop.
------------
2030s - The End of the Golden Age
General
After AIDS cure is released new antibiotic resistant viruses appear. Resistant tuberculosis hits the developing nations, particularly India, very hard. A sample of the 1918 flu virus from bodies buried under the North Polar is accidentally released when it is procured for research. Million fall prey to these dieases, probably more then all of the wars of the 20th century. Global pandemics left the population of the world much smaller.
Global warming has caused a rise in sea levels around the world. Though not as serious a problem as expected in the late 20th century, many parts of the world that used to be above water are now below. Areas that should be flooded often depend on jury-rigged pumping systems to keep dry.
In the largest urban areas of the world, then, life is grim. A growing variety of drugs offers pleasure and ensures suffering to an ever larger user-base. Crime has become a larger problem than ever. At street level, cities like New York and Paris are little more than armed compounds where drug dealers and users prey on the powerless and vie with the poor for access to scant resources. The most committed among the urban rich have moved up or in, to the tops of whatever skyscrapers remain standing or to protected enclaves in places like New York's Central Park.
Toxicological study found no carcinogenic effects at chlorine concentrations a thousand times higher than the Environmental Protection Agency revised Kyoto standards.
North America
In 2030, the same year the AIDS cure was released, a major earthquake hit the West Coast, destroying most of San Francisco and dumping all of Los Angeles and most of Southern California south of Lompoc into the ocean. Some saw more than coincidence in the fact that the cure for a disease long-thought to have spread from San Francisco was released at the same time the city itself was destroyed. No connection between these events has been proved and no evidence of foul-play has been discovered. Regardless of root causes, the earthquake forced the government to declare the west coast (or what was left of it) a disaster area. Since then, the US has teetered on the brink of bankruptcy, trying to deal with the situation. The country is still pulling itself out of a hole (physical and financial).
With the government focusing on the disaster on the ex-West Coast, the needs of the other parts of the country went unmet. In 2031, Utah announced its intention to secede from the United States, declaring its independence and annexing what was left of Arizona and Nevada. Inspired by Utah's example, fringe groups in Texas declared independence, too, followed shortly thereafter by a group made up of Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming -- the Northwest Secessionist Forces, antecedent of the NSF (National Secessionist Forces). These efforts all failed and the would-be secessionists have been pushed back to the margins of society. However, martial law still exists in some portions of these states.
The Russo-Mexican Alliance (Explained later) emboldened by a burgeoning economy built on a foundation of steady drug sales in the US and by the distractions provided by the events described above, declared its intention to take back the state of Texas it had lost centuries before. Russo-Mexican troops advanced rapidly and have, at the time the game begins, taken control of the southern portions of the state. Texas is a genuine warzone with battlelines drawn just north of Austin. Needless to say, many have died in the fighting and anyone attempting to enter Texas from North, East or West is in for trouble.
As a result of all this tumult, America is in a constant state of tension. The borders are guarded by the Armed Forces, customs is deadly serious, immigration laws have been tightened dramatically, and nationwide martial law seems imminent.
Europe
The situation in the US caused a NATO meltdown. Without a central defense force, the EC crumbled, tensions between east and west reemerged, and civil war is the norm in Eastern Europe.
Though hit as hard as the rest of the world by disease, Europe as a whole was miraculously spared the ravages of drugs. This, as much as anything, has spurred rumors that the drug crisis in the United States is and always has been part of an organized conspiracy.
Despite the collapse of NATO, the powers that be are still in the process of assembling a new coalition of nations. Meanwhile, the rise of chaos and civil war has fragmented the nations of Europe and made goal of unification under a single coalition umbrella more difficult to achieve than expected.
For many years, Russia after the breakdown of Soviet Communism and the failure to introduce a satisfactory alternative resulted in a breakdown of law and order, allowing organized crime to flourish and dominate. The Russian Mafia thrives as the only source of luxuries (and some necessities) in Russian life. Politicians take their marching orders from a variety of crime bosses. As a necessary step in the consolidation of their power, the Russian Mafia formed a coalition with Latin American drug lords based in Mexico to form the Russo-Mexican Alliance. The Russian nuclear capability, though less potent than it was a hundred years ago is controlled by several different crime bosses within the chaotic RMA, both minimizing the threat to world security (because they can't mount a coordinated attack) and maximizing it (because any nut can get his hands on the button and launch a small strike).
South America
.
Mexico, controlled by drug lords allied with the Russian Mafia. This Russo-Mexican Alliance (or RMA) provides what amounts to an aggressive shadow government pressing the "real" government hard in terms of popularity and power.
Other than Mexico, however, South America hasn't changed much since the turn of the century. If anything, the continent is, as a whole, more prosperous than in the past. Though business is booming (much of it illegitimate) South America remains as fragmented in the 2030's as it was a hundred years earlier. Governments turn over regularly, through coup or election, but the average citizen who survived the ravages of disease hardly notices the difference. The poor remain desperately poor, the rich obscenely rich. It's as if government is irrelevant, as if some other force remains consistent though politicians come and go.
Efforts to control the drug trade are all but non-existent (since drugs represent so much of the continent's GNP).
The Second Mexican-American war rages, but south of Mexico, it's business as usual.
Africa
The African continent is beginning to emerge as a place of growth and change.
Disease decimated Africa first and it's had the longest time to emerge from the troubles and begin building itself back up. A new spirit of cooperation, spurred by a much smaller population base no longer able to fight effectively, has all but ended tribal conflicts. Africa is emerging as a new Eden, a center of technology and a new frontier with lots of room for personal and business growth.
Over the last years, many Hong Kong expatriates have moved to Africa, resulting in the establishment of thriving Afro-Asian communities. (Afro-Asian chic is spreading rapidly through the worlds of pop culture and fashion). Though it will never displace Hong Kong, the New Hong Kong section of Lagos, Nigeria, is one of the continent's most active, successful and chaotic cities -- not unlike Casablanca during World War 2.
Aside from a few small pockets of freedom (described as "anarchy" by most), like Lagos, Africa is almost entirely under the supervision of governments.
Asia
Essentially untouched by world events, China has emerged as a world leader, supplanting the United States and Europe as centers of education and industry.
China is a welcome change from the less successful communist experiment in Russia and Eastern Europe. Now, with its centralized government, huge population and near monopoly on advanced human augmentation technology, it is the model of what the world could have become. The global plagues have lowered the population of China somewhat, to the point where many have accused the government of engineering it to lower its ever increasing population levels but those voices were quickly silenced.
Hong Kong, though a part of the Chinese empire, remains more chaotic than one might think. Though repression is extreme, the urge for freedom is strong and thriving black markets keep Hong Kong's tradition of free trade and entrepreneurism alive and well.
India was hit harder than anywhere else in the world by pandemics, particularly antibiotic-resistant strains of tuberculosis, and in desperate need of medical and financial assistance chose absorption into China rather than obliteration from disease. The rest of Southeast Asia was forced to make similar choices, and one by one, like the dominos to which they were once compared by American politicians, they fell to Chinese pressure.
Japan is only now pulling out of a depression that began with the collapse of its economy at the turn of the century. However, the fierce independence of the Japanese allowed them to put off Chinese overtures and resist conspiratorial pressures. Japan remains independent though, sadly, not much of a factor in world affairs. China continues to make overtures, but to no avail. It remains to be seen whether Japan can remain independent and emerge as a world power once again.
Australia is untouched mostly, but it is the scene of some pretty serious tension between a growing aborigine independence group and the English-descended population. Australia has managed to slip under the world's radar and could emerge as a power someday.
The Middle East
What to say, chaos and terrorism is as prevalent as ever. With the collapse of NATO and US power, a successful pan-Arab invasion of Israel in 2039 takes place and Arab control of the region is total. victory did not come cheap however as several WMDs were used by both sides, skyrocketting the casulties.
....
Outer Space
Not as much activity as one might expect.
Government and military space planes make regular flights to two relatively large orbiting space stations (international efforts owned by no single country). The stations are used by scientists and industry. However, the first mega-expensive resort hotel opened recently, a getaway for adventurous travelers with good connections and LOTS of money.
There are enough satellites in orbit that traffic is becoming a problem and accidents hardly make the news anymore.
As far as life on other planets goes, we still haven't encountered any, at least none that can be acknowledged publicly -- rumors continue to abound that we were visited by aliens a century or more ago and the governments of the world are keeping it secret.
The only acknowledged life on other planets is human life -- there's a small, permanent Moon base populated by scientists -- purely experimental stuff -- and a mostly robot-controlled lunar mining facility. And, mankind has explored Mars about as much as we explored the Moon in the 1960's. In other words, it's possible to get there but no one much cares. Far more interesting to most people is the asteroid field between Mars and Jupiter. It's currently mined by robots designed for the purpose, and more big plans for the exploitation of the asteroid field's immense resources exist.
............more to come.
Please note that many thing might be unrealistic and I am aware of it.-----------------------------------------------------------
1997 - The sovereignty of Hong Kong is handed over by the UK to the PRC.
1999 - On January first Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, and Spain bowed to pressure and adopted the Euro (EUR) as their currency.
2002 - The Euro changeover was completed.
-On January 28th The Guilder (NLG) dies.
-On February 9th The Pound (IEP) dies.
-On February 17th The Franc (FRF) dies.
-On February 28th Schilling (ATS)
The Franc (BEF) dies.
The Deutsche Mark (DEM) dies.
The Peseta (ESP) dies.
The Markka (FIM) dies.
The Drachma (GRD) dies.
The Franc (LUF) dies.
The Escudo (PTE) dies.
The Lira (VAL) dies.
The Lira (ITL) dies.
-------------
2000-2030
For the better part, the majority of the world prospers greatly. (Well the Western nations and many developing nations) Certain parts of Africa and Middle East however remain in conflict as they have always been. It is termed as the new Golden Age. In the feeling of benevolence and good will at the time, the UN with the help of a few powerful influential figures manages to start project "Internet 3" that will allow unlimited bandwidth and literally free (well not free, but very cheap) internet and unify global communication through a single hub. However the project has met many difficulties from protesting corporations, profiters, to tele evangelists and politicans. As a result, the progress was significantly slowed down, as the project was flipped on and off at the whims of politicans.
In the 2020s Mechanical augmentations are just becoming widespread.
-In the early years of this decade work on nano-technology begins. The project has a number of difficulties. A self-replicating nanite that can interact with biological material has to be developed. The nanites must be able to interpret commands directly from the mind, and send information back to the mind in a form that can be interpreted. This will take many years to develop.
------------
2030s - The End of the Golden Age
General
After AIDS cure is released new antibiotic resistant viruses appear. Resistant tuberculosis hits the developing nations, particularly India, very hard. A sample of the 1918 flu virus from bodies buried under the North Polar is accidentally released when it is procured for research. Million fall prey to these dieases, probably more then all of the wars of the 20th century. Global pandemics left the population of the world much smaller.
Global warming has caused a rise in sea levels around the world. Though not as serious a problem as expected in the late 20th century, many parts of the world that used to be above water are now below. Areas that should be flooded often depend on jury-rigged pumping systems to keep dry.
In the largest urban areas of the world, then, life is grim. A growing variety of drugs offers pleasure and ensures suffering to an ever larger user-base. Crime has become a larger problem than ever. At street level, cities like New York and Paris are little more than armed compounds where drug dealers and users prey on the powerless and vie with the poor for access to scant resources. The most committed among the urban rich have moved up or in, to the tops of whatever skyscrapers remain standing or to protected enclaves in places like New York's Central Park.
Toxicological study found no carcinogenic effects at chlorine concentrations a thousand times higher than the Environmental Protection Agency revised Kyoto standards.
North America
In 2030, the same year the AIDS cure was released, a major earthquake hit the West Coast, destroying most of San Francisco and dumping all of Los Angeles and most of Southern California south of Lompoc into the ocean. Some saw more than coincidence in the fact that the cure for a disease long-thought to have spread from San Francisco was released at the same time the city itself was destroyed. No connection between these events has been proved and no evidence of foul-play has been discovered. Regardless of root causes, the earthquake forced the government to declare the west coast (or what was left of it) a disaster area. Since then, the US has teetered on the brink of bankruptcy, trying to deal with the situation. The country is still pulling itself out of a hole (physical and financial).
With the government focusing on the disaster on the ex-West Coast, the needs of the other parts of the country went unmet. In 2031, Utah announced its intention to secede from the United States, declaring its independence and annexing what was left of Arizona and Nevada. Inspired by Utah's example, fringe groups in Texas declared independence, too, followed shortly thereafter by a group made up of Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming -- the Northwest Secessionist Forces, antecedent of the NSF (National Secessionist Forces). These efforts all failed and the would-be secessionists have been pushed back to the margins of society. However, martial law still exists in some portions of these states.
The Russo-Mexican Alliance (Explained later) emboldened by a burgeoning economy built on a foundation of steady drug sales in the US and by the distractions provided by the events described above, declared its intention to take back the state of Texas it had lost centuries before. Russo-Mexican troops advanced rapidly and have, at the time the game begins, taken control of the southern portions of the state. Texas is a genuine warzone with battlelines drawn just north of Austin. Needless to say, many have died in the fighting and anyone attempting to enter Texas from North, East or West is in for trouble.
As a result of all this tumult, America is in a constant state of tension. The borders are guarded by the Armed Forces, customs is deadly serious, immigration laws have been tightened dramatically, and nationwide martial law seems imminent.
Europe
The situation in the US caused a NATO meltdown. Without a central defense force, the EC crumbled, tensions between east and west reemerged, and civil war is the norm in Eastern Europe.
Though hit as hard as the rest of the world by disease, Europe as a whole was miraculously spared the ravages of drugs. This, as much as anything, has spurred rumors that the drug crisis in the United States is and always has been part of an organized conspiracy.
Despite the collapse of NATO, the powers that be are still in the process of assembling a new coalition of nations. Meanwhile, the rise of chaos and civil war has fragmented the nations of Europe and made goal of unification under a single coalition umbrella more difficult to achieve than expected.
For many years, Russia after the breakdown of Soviet Communism and the failure to introduce a satisfactory alternative resulted in a breakdown of law and order, allowing organized crime to flourish and dominate. The Russian Mafia thrives as the only source of luxuries (and some necessities) in Russian life. Politicians take their marching orders from a variety of crime bosses. As a necessary step in the consolidation of their power, the Russian Mafia formed a coalition with Latin American drug lords based in Mexico to form the Russo-Mexican Alliance. The Russian nuclear capability, though less potent than it was a hundred years ago is controlled by several different crime bosses within the chaotic RMA, both minimizing the threat to world security (because they can't mount a coordinated attack) and maximizing it (because any nut can get his hands on the button and launch a small strike).
South America
.
Mexico, controlled by drug lords allied with the Russian Mafia. This Russo-Mexican Alliance (or RMA) provides what amounts to an aggressive shadow government pressing the "real" government hard in terms of popularity and power.
Other than Mexico, however, South America hasn't changed much since the turn of the century. If anything, the continent is, as a whole, more prosperous than in the past. Though business is booming (much of it illegitimate) South America remains as fragmented in the 2030's as it was a hundred years earlier. Governments turn over regularly, through coup or election, but the average citizen who survived the ravages of disease hardly notices the difference. The poor remain desperately poor, the rich obscenely rich. It's as if government is irrelevant, as if some other force remains consistent though politicians come and go.
Efforts to control the drug trade are all but non-existent (since drugs represent so much of the continent's GNP).
The Second Mexican-American war rages, but south of Mexico, it's business as usual.
Africa
The African continent is beginning to emerge as a place of growth and change.
Disease decimated Africa first and it's had the longest time to emerge from the troubles and begin building itself back up. A new spirit of cooperation, spurred by a much smaller population base no longer able to fight effectively, has all but ended tribal conflicts. Africa is emerging as a new Eden, a center of technology and a new frontier with lots of room for personal and business growth.
Over the last years, many Hong Kong expatriates have moved to Africa, resulting in the establishment of thriving Afro-Asian communities. (Afro-Asian chic is spreading rapidly through the worlds of pop culture and fashion). Though it will never displace Hong Kong, the New Hong Kong section of Lagos, Nigeria, is one of the continent's most active, successful and chaotic cities -- not unlike Casablanca during World War 2.
Aside from a few small pockets of freedom (described as "anarchy" by most), like Lagos, Africa is almost entirely under the supervision of governments.
Asia
Essentially untouched by world events, China has emerged as a world leader, supplanting the United States and Europe as centers of education and industry.
China is a welcome change from the less successful communist experiment in Russia and Eastern Europe. Now, with its centralized government, huge population and near monopoly on advanced human augmentation technology, it is the model of what the world could have become. The global plagues have lowered the population of China somewhat, to the point where many have accused the government of engineering it to lower its ever increasing population levels but those voices were quickly silenced.
Hong Kong, though a part of the Chinese empire, remains more chaotic than one might think. Though repression is extreme, the urge for freedom is strong and thriving black markets keep Hong Kong's tradition of free trade and entrepreneurism alive and well.
India was hit harder than anywhere else in the world by pandemics, particularly antibiotic-resistant strains of tuberculosis, and in desperate need of medical and financial assistance chose absorption into China rather than obliteration from disease. The rest of Southeast Asia was forced to make similar choices, and one by one, like the dominos to which they were once compared by American politicians, they fell to Chinese pressure.
Japan is only now pulling out of a depression that began with the collapse of its economy at the turn of the century. However, the fierce independence of the Japanese allowed them to put off Chinese overtures and resist conspiratorial pressures. Japan remains independent though, sadly, not much of a factor in world affairs. China continues to make overtures, but to no avail. It remains to be seen whether Japan can remain independent and emerge as a world power once again.
Australia is untouched mostly, but it is the scene of some pretty serious tension between a growing aborigine independence group and the English-descended population. Australia has managed to slip under the world's radar and could emerge as a power someday.
The Middle East
What to say, chaos and terrorism is as prevalent as ever. With the collapse of NATO and US power, a successful pan-Arab invasion of Israel in 2039 takes place and Arab control of the region is total. victory did not come cheap however as several WMDs were used by both sides, skyrocketting the casulties.
....
Outer Space
Not as much activity as one might expect.
Government and military space planes make regular flights to two relatively large orbiting space stations (international efforts owned by no single country). The stations are used by scientists and industry. However, the first mega-expensive resort hotel opened recently, a getaway for adventurous travelers with good connections and LOTS of money.
There are enough satellites in orbit that traffic is becoming a problem and accidents hardly make the news anymore.
As far as life on other planets goes, we still haven't encountered any, at least none that can be acknowledged publicly -- rumors continue to abound that we were visited by aliens a century or more ago and the governments of the world are keeping it secret.
The only acknowledged life on other planets is human life -- there's a small, permanent Moon base populated by scientists -- purely experimental stuff -- and a mostly robot-controlled lunar mining facility. And, mankind has explored Mars about as much as we explored the Moon in the 1960's. In other words, it's possible to get there but no one much cares. Far more interesting to most people is the asteroid field between Mars and Jupiter. It's currently mined by robots designed for the purpose, and more big plans for the exploitation of the asteroid field's immense resources exist.
............more to come.
Insane_Panda
Deity
I want Europe, damnit! (in Silver's NES, of course 
)
)
Oruc
Reactionary
This is a funny alt-hist (though completely unrealistic) http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224022
I have Hearts of Iron 1 and I couldnt get anything done, although its not as confusing as Victoria.
I have Hearts of Iron 1 and I couldnt get anything done, although its not as confusing as Victoria.
Symphony D.
Deity
On second thought, Silver, no need for the position. I need to be focusing on my own projects. However, I will get that list for you by Friday or Saturday.
That Hearts of Iron AAR is pretty cool too. Never played it or Victoria, but both look interesting.
That Hearts of Iron AAR is pretty cool too. Never played it or Victoria, but both look interesting.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
HoI and Victoria are excellent games, except for their trade facet, which is utterly terrible. And that ruined the games for me.
Insane_Panda
Deity
I rather like Victoria, and indeed prefer it over HoI.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Symphony D. said:
I did like the concepts and limitations they postulated for oceanic technology, especialy the super coastal cities. The lack of a true internet is pretty amusing as well.
Symphony D.
Deity
I hereby declare that AAR the most screwed up history ever. Germany annexing the entire Soviet Union, only for the DUTCH to breakthrough on the North German Plain with the Allies, and then losing everything but Berlin while Hungary goes on to reconquer basically everything it helped Germany get. This is not to mention the random Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and Hungary beating the snot out of Italy. Utterly insane.
I imagine the AIs went psychotic because of some built in "But I'm supposed to be dead already!" routine, or something, but that whole affair is crazy. I'm not even at the end of it yet... who knows what might happen next. My favorite part is the whole "Nazi Russia" paradox that arises.
[EDIT] AKA Hungary destroys the Soviets, the Axis, and takes on the Allies.
I imagine the AIs went psychotic because of some built in "But I'm supposed to be dead already!" routine, or something, but that whole affair is crazy. I'm not even at the end of it yet... who knows what might happen next. My favorite part is the whole "Nazi Russia" paradox that arises.
[EDIT] AKA Hungary destroys the Soviets, the Axis, and takes on the Allies.
das
Regeneration In Process
OOC: I accidentally lost the first few paragraphs of this installment and had to rewrite them, which is why they are rather substandard.
This is the final 1797 installment. Now that that crucial, eventful year is over, I will probably become somewhat less detailed, though on the general this will be a rather heavily-detailed althist.
IC:
Pichegru's coup d'etat of the 18th Fructidor was the end of the Revolution and of the Republic, and this was apparent to pretty much everyone before he even declared the restoration of monarchy and invited Comte de Lille to come to Paris. On the very day of his victory, conspiracies against him begun to appear, while the various anti-monarchists started riots (easily-dispersed, for the most part) and armed revolts, sometimes even in the countryside though it was ofcourse far more loyal than the more republican cities, especially the Vendee ofcourse where Cadoudal had organized a pretty large Chouan volunteer army. The armed revolts were also quite easily defeated, but time and again begun anew, even as other, more peaceful steps towards consolidation of power were being taken by Charles Pichegru - now no longer a mere general, but a Marechal of France and Prime Minister with dictatorial powers (as both he was declared by Comte de Lille, who himself was now King Louis XVIII - by the way, he ofcourse was but a figurehead and Pichegru the true ruler of France, as Louis would find out a bit later...). For instance, in an official declaration it was made clear that though monarchy would be restored, this didn't mean a rollback to 1788, instead numerous "crucial changes within the French state" would be taken into consideration and not all the conquests of the revolution would be lost. Amnesties were given out to the less odious of the republican politicians as long as they recognized the monarchy. Meanwhile, emigres were returning en masse, though this process had also begun back in 1794.
Several attempts to assassinate Pichegru, Lazre Carnot or Louis XVIII had been foiled. Towards the end of 1797 Pichegru's power was being consolidated. Yet far from all was sunny, the Restoration still had many enemies, and worse of all, it has done quite badly as far as diplomacy went. Though at first the Coalition's leaders seemed only glad to negotiate with the restored monarchy, they were quick to make it clear that all of the French gains in the last few years were to be reversed. Louis XVIII could go for that, but Pichegru couldn't; and as both the Austrians and the British thought France to be too exhausted to fight on for much longer after this political upheaval (and at the same time, ofcourse, knew better than to let it keep even Belgium, as that would potentially strenghthen it way too much for either Britain or Austria to feel safe), they at first continued to press the demands and then broke off the negotiations. The Revolutionary Wars continued without a Revolution, entering their strangest phase yet.
Furthermore, Pichegru's control over those troops on the vital eastern theatres was practically nonexistant. Generals Jourdan and Augereau, commanders of the Army of the Rhine and the Army of Italy respectively, were diehard republicans. They hadn't rebelled at first, and as a matter of fact until late in the year didn't cross the line between loyalty and mutiny, but soon after news of the coup d'etat reached them, they established close contact with Emmanuel Joseph Sieyes, who, after Pichegru's crackdown on the briefly-revived Jacobin Club, became the leader of the Jacobin remnants and thus of the anti-monarchist resistance. The three men plotted a rebellion. Pichegru ofcourse suspected all this, but was too busy consolidating his positions at home and also knew that his enemies were themselves too busy fighting back the Coalition attacks; at the same time, for this very reason he wouldn't have removed them even if he realistically could have - the Marechal-Premier knew better than to repeat the Directory's mistake and didn't have too many good candidates at his disposal to send there, not yet anyway.
Thankfully, the Coalition attacks were running out of steam by then and suffered once again from the underestimation of French strenght and morale (the latter was declining ofcourse, but both Jourdan and Augereau were popular and charismatic enough to inspire their troops to fight on) - also, the British, still semi-paralyzed by the mutinies, were unable to participate. Erzherzog Karl was outmaneuvered and defeated at Zweiburg and Mannheim and fell back northwards, while the Austrian breakthrough in the mountains was neutralized by quick, efficient maneuvering between the strategic positions. After badly defeating the Austrians later in the year in the battle at Chambery, both Jourdan and Augereau felt safe enough to launch a coup d'etat. Just as they begun preparing for their coup, Pichegru's men attempted to arrest them - and were arrested and shot themselves by the loyal soldiers. Somewhat taken aback by all this, the two generals had determined that they hadn't really a choice but to rise up, and so leaving minor garrisons back in the east they set out for Paris with their armies, along the way announcing their intentions to overthrow the traitor Pichegru and restore the Republic.
Inevitably, Jourdan advanced faster and also had a stronger army - the Army of Italy was still badly battered by the earlier defeats, especially the post-Rivoli rout. Busy putting down a pro-Jacobin rebellion, Pichegru sent out a mid-sized army under Jean Baptiste Kleber to intercept Jourdan's Army of the Rhine near the Rheims. Once this happened, after a few insults and rebukes a battle begun - and almost a half of the army defected in battle. Jourdan was quite popular. Pichegru wasn't, and though the troops that defected were ofcourse by far the least reliable of his soldiers, this was still distressing, especially as, ofcourse, Jourdan routed Kleber's remaining loyal forces quite easily.
Pichegru trid to reconcile with his generals, but to no avail. Finally, he raised his forces (his own army, Parisian militias and Cadoudal's royalist volunteers) and gave Jourdan battle just in the outskirts of Paris, at Lognes. The two armies were roughly even in size, only Jourdan's troops were worn out by the marching and generally had lower morale due to this (and the usual problems of morale at the start of a civil war, as this seemed backed then). Pichegru however also had a superior position. He engaged in a steady frontal battle with his enemy, blocking a clever flanking move, while 1/4 of his forces was rapidly advancing from the north in an elaborate and unnoticed manneuver. Finally it struck, and using the panic amongst the neemy troops Pichegru ordered a frontal all-out charge. Jourdan's army was utterly routed and Jourdan himself was captured, but not before inflciting surprisingly heavy casualties on Pichegru's forces despite all of the Marechal's cunning maneuvers.
Though this meant over half the "general's rebellion" over, as the survivors of the Army of the Rhine pledged allegience to the king, Pichegru had to urgently deal with a republican uprising in the northeast, inspired by Jourdan and Sieyes. As it happened, this coincided with a new Austrian offensive that not only retook Mannheim, but also allowed the Erzherzog to take Luxembourg and threaten Reims. Pichegru had to hastily form a new Army of the Rhine, under Edmond Louis Alexis Dubois-Crace and himself march to face Augereau.
The two armies faced each other down on the 27th Brumaire, at Auxerre. Faced each other down, exchanged some artillery fire and then declared truce, while envoys scurried back and forth. At first, Pichegru was confident that he could crush Augereau. But he was persuaded along the way that the price would be simply not worth it, and that civil war must be prevented from escalating at any cost if France is to succesfully defend its natural borders on the Rhine and the Alps. Augereau was quite easy to persuade as well. Sieyes was even easier - the abbe had grown quite desperate and pessimistic, and sought reconciliation with Pichegru, a temporary one at least. Who persuaded them that it would be best to negotiate and helped them work out what became known as the Compromise of Auxerre? He was a fairly dubious character, at one point an emigre in the American United States, now, in 1797, an enigma and a very wealthy man, and in the future, the "Richilieu of the Restoration". Ever since the 18th Fructidor Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Perigord begun entering Pichegru's circle; his advice for negotiations with Jourdan proved useless due to the general's stubbornness, but this time, working through his network of friends and spies, Talleyrand managed to establish contact with Sieyes himself and learned that both he and Augereau will be only glad to negotiate. Ever the pragmaticist, Pichegru had no problems with negotiating with Sieyes, growing tired of having to put down all those revolts and reasonably believing that reconciliation with the abbe would greatly decrease them; as for Augereau, Pichegru sincerely wished to avoid bloodshed, if only because he needed the Army of Italy to fight back the new Austrian attacks there (Augereau himself had clearly decided to negotiate both out of his pessimism about his chances of success now that Jourdan was crushed and out of his patriotism). Talleyrand brought them all together and helped them negotiate a peace treaty of sorts that ended this brief civil war.
First and foremost, Augereau and Sieyes had ofcourse recognized the Restoration and Pichegru's prime ministry, whilst Pichegru, naturally, granted amnesty to them, their followers and the officers of the Army of Italy. Augereau and Sieyes promised not to conspire against Pichegru and the King, whilst Pichegru - both in his own name and in that of the king - guaranteed their safety. But ofcourse things weren't as easy as that. In order to assuage both the abbe and the general public, particularily the moderate-liberal circles that grew influential under the Directory, Pichegru, whilst aware of the King's future protests, had announced a preliminary constitution (drafted up with the help of both Sieyes and Talleyrand) for the restored monarchy that not only set in stone the changes in ownership and a myriad of other reforms that took place since 1789, but also provided for a fairly liberal parliamentary monarchy (clearly inspired by the original 1789 proposals, but on one hand as already said setting in stone some of the changes since then - not including the Revolutionary Calendar and some other radical concepts, however - and on the other somewhat increasing the amount of power available to both the king and his Prime Minister) to come in place after "peace is restored", both domestically and internationally. Indeed, Louis XVIII and the more die-hard reactionaries (and those emigres that now lost the last chance to get back what they have, well, lost) were outraged. But most of them also knew that without Pichegru, they wouldn't have even this sort of a restoration, and furthermore, that to oppose Pichegru would mean to lose what they HAD regained. So the constitution was approved by the king as well a few days later.
The restored monarchy was now beginning to take on a definite shape - a one much less frightening than the White Terror many had expected. Over time, it managed to gain the support of most the population, apart from perhaps the left fringe. The actual restoration of the monarchy obviously appealed to the royalists and the conservatives, as did the end of persecution of the clergy and the emigres, even though neither got their lands and more than token priveleges back. The bourgoise was swayed by promises of law, order and prosperity, as well as by liberal reform. The countryside was mostly conservative and/or tired of wars and revolutions. And pretty much everyone supported the new ideological line of the new Foreign Minister, Talleyrand - that of a mildly-liberal, but mostly untempered nationalism. Talleyrand had formally inaguarateed the war's new stage by announcing France's war aims to be the enforcement of the natural border in the east - the old "Rhin-et-Alpes" doctrine - and the defense of France's territorial integrity and sovereignity within said natural borders. Thus on one hand he secured greater public enthusiasm and easier new conscription within France itself - and outside of it, sympathy of other countries, especially those on fairly cold terms with Britain and Austria. After all, France was no longer the terrifying Revolutionary Hydra, it no longer exported revolution having ran out of it itself; instead, it was yet another great power, with its own clearly-stated reasonable interests and aims (unless you were British or Austrian). There was nothing wrong at all with using it.
With this, and some bribes here, and some persuasion there, Talleyrand scored a great victory early in 1798, bringing the War of the Coalition into a new, decisive phase.
This is the final 1797 installment. Now that that crucial, eventful year is over, I will probably become somewhat less detailed, though on the general this will be a rather heavily-detailed althist.
IC:
Pichegru's coup d'etat of the 18th Fructidor was the end of the Revolution and of the Republic, and this was apparent to pretty much everyone before he even declared the restoration of monarchy and invited Comte de Lille to come to Paris. On the very day of his victory, conspiracies against him begun to appear, while the various anti-monarchists started riots (easily-dispersed, for the most part) and armed revolts, sometimes even in the countryside though it was ofcourse far more loyal than the more republican cities, especially the Vendee ofcourse where Cadoudal had organized a pretty large Chouan volunteer army. The armed revolts were also quite easily defeated, but time and again begun anew, even as other, more peaceful steps towards consolidation of power were being taken by Charles Pichegru - now no longer a mere general, but a Marechal of France and Prime Minister with dictatorial powers (as both he was declared by Comte de Lille, who himself was now King Louis XVIII - by the way, he ofcourse was but a figurehead and Pichegru the true ruler of France, as Louis would find out a bit later...). For instance, in an official declaration it was made clear that though monarchy would be restored, this didn't mean a rollback to 1788, instead numerous "crucial changes within the French state" would be taken into consideration and not all the conquests of the revolution would be lost. Amnesties were given out to the less odious of the republican politicians as long as they recognized the monarchy. Meanwhile, emigres were returning en masse, though this process had also begun back in 1794.
Several attempts to assassinate Pichegru, Lazre Carnot or Louis XVIII had been foiled. Towards the end of 1797 Pichegru's power was being consolidated. Yet far from all was sunny, the Restoration still had many enemies, and worse of all, it has done quite badly as far as diplomacy went. Though at first the Coalition's leaders seemed only glad to negotiate with the restored monarchy, they were quick to make it clear that all of the French gains in the last few years were to be reversed. Louis XVIII could go for that, but Pichegru couldn't; and as both the Austrians and the British thought France to be too exhausted to fight on for much longer after this political upheaval (and at the same time, ofcourse, knew better than to let it keep even Belgium, as that would potentially strenghthen it way too much for either Britain or Austria to feel safe), they at first continued to press the demands and then broke off the negotiations. The Revolutionary Wars continued without a Revolution, entering their strangest phase yet.
Furthermore, Pichegru's control over those troops on the vital eastern theatres was practically nonexistant. Generals Jourdan and Augereau, commanders of the Army of the Rhine and the Army of Italy respectively, were diehard republicans. They hadn't rebelled at first, and as a matter of fact until late in the year didn't cross the line between loyalty and mutiny, but soon after news of the coup d'etat reached them, they established close contact with Emmanuel Joseph Sieyes, who, after Pichegru's crackdown on the briefly-revived Jacobin Club, became the leader of the Jacobin remnants and thus of the anti-monarchist resistance. The three men plotted a rebellion. Pichegru ofcourse suspected all this, but was too busy consolidating his positions at home and also knew that his enemies were themselves too busy fighting back the Coalition attacks; at the same time, for this very reason he wouldn't have removed them even if he realistically could have - the Marechal-Premier knew better than to repeat the Directory's mistake and didn't have too many good candidates at his disposal to send there, not yet anyway.
Thankfully, the Coalition attacks were running out of steam by then and suffered once again from the underestimation of French strenght and morale (the latter was declining ofcourse, but both Jourdan and Augereau were popular and charismatic enough to inspire their troops to fight on) - also, the British, still semi-paralyzed by the mutinies, were unable to participate. Erzherzog Karl was outmaneuvered and defeated at Zweiburg and Mannheim and fell back northwards, while the Austrian breakthrough in the mountains was neutralized by quick, efficient maneuvering between the strategic positions. After badly defeating the Austrians later in the year in the battle at Chambery, both Jourdan and Augereau felt safe enough to launch a coup d'etat. Just as they begun preparing for their coup, Pichegru's men attempted to arrest them - and were arrested and shot themselves by the loyal soldiers. Somewhat taken aback by all this, the two generals had determined that they hadn't really a choice but to rise up, and so leaving minor garrisons back in the east they set out for Paris with their armies, along the way announcing their intentions to overthrow the traitor Pichegru and restore the Republic.
Inevitably, Jourdan advanced faster and also had a stronger army - the Army of Italy was still badly battered by the earlier defeats, especially the post-Rivoli rout. Busy putting down a pro-Jacobin rebellion, Pichegru sent out a mid-sized army under Jean Baptiste Kleber to intercept Jourdan's Army of the Rhine near the Rheims. Once this happened, after a few insults and rebukes a battle begun - and almost a half of the army defected in battle. Jourdan was quite popular. Pichegru wasn't, and though the troops that defected were ofcourse by far the least reliable of his soldiers, this was still distressing, especially as, ofcourse, Jourdan routed Kleber's remaining loyal forces quite easily.
Pichegru trid to reconcile with his generals, but to no avail. Finally, he raised his forces (his own army, Parisian militias and Cadoudal's royalist volunteers) and gave Jourdan battle just in the outskirts of Paris, at Lognes. The two armies were roughly even in size, only Jourdan's troops were worn out by the marching and generally had lower morale due to this (and the usual problems of morale at the start of a civil war, as this seemed backed then). Pichegru however also had a superior position. He engaged in a steady frontal battle with his enemy, blocking a clever flanking move, while 1/4 of his forces was rapidly advancing from the north in an elaborate and unnoticed manneuver. Finally it struck, and using the panic amongst the neemy troops Pichegru ordered a frontal all-out charge. Jourdan's army was utterly routed and Jourdan himself was captured, but not before inflciting surprisingly heavy casualties on Pichegru's forces despite all of the Marechal's cunning maneuvers.
Though this meant over half the "general's rebellion" over, as the survivors of the Army of the Rhine pledged allegience to the king, Pichegru had to urgently deal with a republican uprising in the northeast, inspired by Jourdan and Sieyes. As it happened, this coincided with a new Austrian offensive that not only retook Mannheim, but also allowed the Erzherzog to take Luxembourg and threaten Reims. Pichegru had to hastily form a new Army of the Rhine, under Edmond Louis Alexis Dubois-Crace and himself march to face Augereau.
The two armies faced each other down on the 27th Brumaire, at Auxerre. Faced each other down, exchanged some artillery fire and then declared truce, while envoys scurried back and forth. At first, Pichegru was confident that he could crush Augereau. But he was persuaded along the way that the price would be simply not worth it, and that civil war must be prevented from escalating at any cost if France is to succesfully defend its natural borders on the Rhine and the Alps. Augereau was quite easy to persuade as well. Sieyes was even easier - the abbe had grown quite desperate and pessimistic, and sought reconciliation with Pichegru, a temporary one at least. Who persuaded them that it would be best to negotiate and helped them work out what became known as the Compromise of Auxerre? He was a fairly dubious character, at one point an emigre in the American United States, now, in 1797, an enigma and a very wealthy man, and in the future, the "Richilieu of the Restoration". Ever since the 18th Fructidor Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Perigord begun entering Pichegru's circle; his advice for negotiations with Jourdan proved useless due to the general's stubbornness, but this time, working through his network of friends and spies, Talleyrand managed to establish contact with Sieyes himself and learned that both he and Augereau will be only glad to negotiate. Ever the pragmaticist, Pichegru had no problems with negotiating with Sieyes, growing tired of having to put down all those revolts and reasonably believing that reconciliation with the abbe would greatly decrease them; as for Augereau, Pichegru sincerely wished to avoid bloodshed, if only because he needed the Army of Italy to fight back the new Austrian attacks there (Augereau himself had clearly decided to negotiate both out of his pessimism about his chances of success now that Jourdan was crushed and out of his patriotism). Talleyrand brought them all together and helped them negotiate a peace treaty of sorts that ended this brief civil war.
First and foremost, Augereau and Sieyes had ofcourse recognized the Restoration and Pichegru's prime ministry, whilst Pichegru, naturally, granted amnesty to them, their followers and the officers of the Army of Italy. Augereau and Sieyes promised not to conspire against Pichegru and the King, whilst Pichegru - both in his own name and in that of the king - guaranteed their safety. But ofcourse things weren't as easy as that. In order to assuage both the abbe and the general public, particularily the moderate-liberal circles that grew influential under the Directory, Pichegru, whilst aware of the King's future protests, had announced a preliminary constitution (drafted up with the help of both Sieyes and Talleyrand) for the restored monarchy that not only set in stone the changes in ownership and a myriad of other reforms that took place since 1789, but also provided for a fairly liberal parliamentary monarchy (clearly inspired by the original 1789 proposals, but on one hand as already said setting in stone some of the changes since then - not including the Revolutionary Calendar and some other radical concepts, however - and on the other somewhat increasing the amount of power available to both the king and his Prime Minister) to come in place after "peace is restored", both domestically and internationally. Indeed, Louis XVIII and the more die-hard reactionaries (and those emigres that now lost the last chance to get back what they have, well, lost) were outraged. But most of them also knew that without Pichegru, they wouldn't have even this sort of a restoration, and furthermore, that to oppose Pichegru would mean to lose what they HAD regained. So the constitution was approved by the king as well a few days later.
The restored monarchy was now beginning to take on a definite shape - a one much less frightening than the White Terror many had expected. Over time, it managed to gain the support of most the population, apart from perhaps the left fringe. The actual restoration of the monarchy obviously appealed to the royalists and the conservatives, as did the end of persecution of the clergy and the emigres, even though neither got their lands and more than token priveleges back. The bourgoise was swayed by promises of law, order and prosperity, as well as by liberal reform. The countryside was mostly conservative and/or tired of wars and revolutions. And pretty much everyone supported the new ideological line of the new Foreign Minister, Talleyrand - that of a mildly-liberal, but mostly untempered nationalism. Talleyrand had formally inaguarateed the war's new stage by announcing France's war aims to be the enforcement of the natural border in the east - the old "Rhin-et-Alpes" doctrine - and the defense of France's territorial integrity and sovereignity within said natural borders. Thus on one hand he secured greater public enthusiasm and easier new conscription within France itself - and outside of it, sympathy of other countries, especially those on fairly cold terms with Britain and Austria. After all, France was no longer the terrifying Revolutionary Hydra, it no longer exported revolution having ran out of it itself; instead, it was yet another great power, with its own clearly-stated reasonable interests and aims (unless you were British or Austrian). There was nothing wrong at all with using it.
With this, and some bribes here, and some persuasion there, Talleyrand scored a great victory early in 1798, bringing the War of the Coalition into a new, decisive phase.
das
Regeneration In Process
Unquestionably unrealistic, Cleric.
For some reason I doubt that. How strong was the Russian nuclear power in 1930?
HoI AARs as althist... Odd concept, really. Though occasionally some things happen there that almost make sense and at the same time didn't happen in our world. These, however, are rare. Of much more interest are the various althists that are declared as althists there - the Prussian Moderation AAR, the Kaiserreich mod...
EDIT: Btw, Dis, if you have time - rectify the map in accord with the 20th century timeline. There are some changes there (such as independent Croatia) that aren't properly represented on your map.
For some reason I doubt that. How strong was the Russian nuclear power in 1930?
HoI AARs as althist... Odd concept, really.
Though occasionally some things happen there that almost make sense and at the same time didn't happen in our world. These, however, are rare. Of much more interest are the various althists that are declared as althists there - the Prussian Moderation AAR, the Kaiserreich mod...EDIT: Btw, Dis, if you have time - rectify the map in accord with the 20th century timeline. There are some changes there (such as independent Croatia) that aren't properly represented on your map.
das
Regeneration In Process
Btw, sorry Cuiv, can't think up any good ideas for your map - or rather they are all negated by the actual situation.
Oruc
Reactionary
Symphony D. said:
It is quite crazy yes, but its gripping I think the word is.
The only Alt-hist I know is this really absurd one involving Richard the Lionheart accidently opening a demon portal during the crusades, after he executes lots of muslim prisoners, so he and Saladin team up and take on the foul demons course they win and lots of other stuff happens after this.
Its for a game which is why is so silly.
das
Regeneration In Process
I have heard of that one... Crazy it is indeed.
jalapeno_dude
AKA Panda Judo Eel
Some random POD's I was thinking of last night:
I'm not as knowledgable as some of you, so I'm not going to predict what will happen, just ask questions.
-Some of the western cultures have an idea of zero. No clue here...
-Socrates wimps out, and, instead of accepting execution, flees to Thessaly, as discussed in the Crito. This could obviously have an effect on Alexander the Great...
-Manuel Chrysoloras decides not to come to Florence to teach Greek. This delays the Renaissance for at least a few years--what's the effect of that.
-The US House of Representatives, on January 9, 1794, accepts the petition that all new laws be translated into German. Does this bring the US closer to Germany, and change WWI and II?
-Andrew Johnson is convicted by the Senate after being impeached. Let's say Edmund G. Ross isn't quite as principled as he was. He didn't have a Vice President, so the Radical Republicans take over. How does this effect Reconstruction and Civil Rights?
-Mckinley isn't assassinated. Again, no clue here...
I'm not as knowledgable as some of you, so I'm not going to predict what will happen, just ask questions.
-Some of the western cultures have an idea of zero. No clue here...
-Socrates wimps out, and, instead of accepting execution, flees to Thessaly, as discussed in the Crito. This could obviously have an effect on Alexander the Great...
-Manuel Chrysoloras decides not to come to Florence to teach Greek. This delays the Renaissance for at least a few years--what's the effect of that.
-The US House of Representatives, on January 9, 1794, accepts the petition that all new laws be translated into German. Does this bring the US closer to Germany, and change WWI and II?
-Andrew Johnson is convicted by the Senate after being impeached. Let's say Edmund G. Ross isn't quite as principled as he was. He didn't have a Vice President, so the Radical Republicans take over. How does this effect Reconstruction and Civil Rights?
-Mckinley isn't assassinated. Again, no clue here...
Kentharu
Zebra Commander
Symphony are you going to mod that alt-history? cause id reaaaaaly love to mod it for my first NES. could you put a map up to? maybe a list of nations??
das
Regeneration In Process
They will have the idea of zero if they will actually have an use for it. When the use appeared, so did the zero.
Nah. Socrates was an old, ill man who will now also be conscience-struck because of going against his own philosophy. He would die soon after even if unfound, without any major effects on Greece apart from somewhat greater discreditation of his ideas.
It doesn't delay anything, the Byzantine refugees did influence it greatly, but firstly, there were many others, and secondly, this would only mean that it would develop slightly differently - possibly becoming slightly less Classical-oriented and somewhat more austere.
Not at all. It would only lead to the repeal of this rule upon USA's entry into WWI, or even earlier, as a part of the usual Entente wave of deGermanization, most notably in Britain and Russia ofcourse. In this world though this might be a part of a greater anti-German reaction in USA; American Germans will be heavily discriminated again, possibly even as much as the American Japanese were during WWII.
Well, greater polarization of the country and the South, for one thing. Greater resistance to the government policies in the South. It is possible that there might even be a second rising - or rather a prolonged KKK-lead guerrila campaign. USA will definitely be weakened by greater division. On the other hand, this just might lead to the Evil USA I suggested a while ago.
Hard to say off-hand, really. In truth, apart from some more moderate domestic policies and less show-offish foreign ones, I think that little of real importance would change - unless, ofcourse, Roosevelt still comes to power later on. If his presidency is shifted forward in time by four or eight years, there shall be some interesting results...
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