Alternate History Thread III

[LittleBoots]

Nah, something better than that. More Science Fiction probably, MOO3 and HALO backstory (or at least what I'm predicting it to be) inspired.

Or just some massive civilization that died out (possibly modernized, possibly ancient) due to some widespread catastrophe that has restarted humanity. Probably going to allow accelerated advancement (read: mildly unrealistic for a while) due to certain vaguely defined elements I've been thinking about, as well as a concession to those who enjoy playing the modern/medieval games. We most likely won't have as much stagnation of the Classical Era (even though I do love it ) and no "dark" ages. The Big Dark Age will have passed with the fall of the massive civilization, the ruins of which may be found and inhabited by certain players, possibly facilitating their advancement.

Interested? Or is it ridiculous?

 

[Azale]

Interesting...you should just sink most of the world and call it Waterworld NES!

This idea, well, it would be similar to a Civ2 or Civ3 game settling around, exploring until you found a village of the past civilization.

Now I'm getting flashbacks to Chrono Trigger, the part where they travel into the future and everything is pretty much bleak and destruction save for a few straggling survivors.

I can't seem to form a cohesive paragraph for my thoughts on it, but I approve. Just as long as it's not damned neanderthals.

 

[LittleBoots]

Heavens no, don't worry about that It probably won't be an earth based map at all, although this might be a problem given my inexperience with maps. I'll probably post in the maps request thread if I decide to go this route. And the backstory will be thought through and hopefully engaging without being too easily discovered.

Although for my first time out I will probably just do Dachs Alt-Hist, if he gets the stats and map done for me

 

[das]

Also, if a Polish-Hungarian union did occur (I still believe it the most likely turn of events) the situation would be even more in favor of Hussite Bohemia surviving.

A strong Hungarian monarchy oriented towards expanding southwards pretty much precludes that, at least until the next dynastic crisis in Poland.

Sounds interesting, Caligula.

I think I'll temporarily stop the daily PoDs; they were becoming somewhat tedious, and I was running out of ideas. Plus the goal of reviving the thread has been achieved anyway. Will probably restart this later or simply do it more haphazardly from now on.

 

[Dachs]

Dachs, will you be working on the stats for the Anatolian Wars Alt-Hist? Thats the one I think I'll do. Either that or a fresh start random map with a secret backstory I've been thinking up, but I'm not yet certain which I want to run. Leaning heavily towards the alt-hist right now.

Now that I know that's what you want, I can do that over spring break (the coming week). I might even be able to get something done by the weekend, although that's extremely doubtful.

I'm going to bring things up to 1930-ish with one big update, then you'll have to roll out a ruleset so I know what kind of stats you want...

 

[LittleBoots]

Depends on what kind of work you want to put in, combined with what kind of work I want to put in. I'd love to run Dis' new rules, but I'm not using programs so that might be aggravating. We'll settle with Stormy's rules, as they seem realistic while relatively easy to utilize. I don't feel bad stealing a ruleset for my first run through.

Don't worry about rushing it. I had originally been planning to wait until the term was over, but if you can get it to me earlier, I'll get it up within a week or two of getting the map/stats.

 

[Azale]

Storms? I don't know, I'm not the biggest fan of his technology rules (1918 infantry takes money to upgrade to 1919, etc.)

 

[LittleBoots]

I will probably rework his technology rules. I'm thinking maybe a vague description of the troops as opposed to a specific technology. Technology can be dealt with more along the lines of dasNES, where players thought up their own advances/technologies they wanted to research and worked towards those. Thoughts?

 

[Israelite9191]

A strong Hungarian monarchy oriented towards expanding southwards pretty much precludes that, at least until the next dynastic crisis in Poland.

Probably right. Although, given the frequency of Polish dynastic crises at this time period, I would see it as likely.

I'll do some more work on this over the weekend and report. I may end up actually writing out the timeline, although I would need significant assistance in many regions.

 

[jalapeno_dude]

I will probably rework his technology rules. I'm thinking maybe a vague description of the troops as opposed to a specific technology. Technology can be dealt with more along the lines of dasNES, where players thought up their own advances/technologies they wanted to research and worked towards those. Thoughts?

Use the JalNES research system! (research costs points and turns, max points spent in research per turn are determined by size and education)

 

[silver 2039]

Anyone have a POD where Christianity and Islam never arose?

 

[Dachs]

Anyone have a POD where Christianity and Islam never arose?

Look at ITNES I.

Not as of right now, no (to my knowledge) - although it'd not be particularly difficult.

 

[silver 2039]

It would be intreasting to preseve the classical civillizations and the polythestic religons....

 

[Disenfrancised]

Look at ITNES I.

Not as of right now, no (to my knowledge) - although it'd not be particularly difficult.

Dunno about that, there are arguments to be made over the scientific method and much else of european society being at least contingent on the Christian world-view, a world without Christianity or Islam would be very different from our current one, and hard to create from our perspective...

 

[silver 2039]

Well I don't want a long term POD, a short term POD where Islam and Christianity are prevented from rising and the world in say about 1000 CE.

 

[Dachs]

Even that sort of gives us a few issues...hmm.

 

[Thlayli]

Well not terribly...you can just extrapolate Mithras, Nordic religions, Zoroastrianism, etc.

Just mess around with Judea a little and you're done...in fact, I think Strategos recently had a timeline dealing with that.

 

[The Strategos]

Anyone have a POD where Christianity and Islam never arose?

Mine.

Part 1
Part 1.5
Part 2

The "Part 1" and "Part 1.5" are actually pretty close to what I think would happen. The later half of "Part 1" and the entirety of "Part 2" are events possible but probably more likely in my head. Right now it is up to 440 CE.

Basically, my main thesis is that without Christianity

1) The Jewish War would not have been as destructive. The Pharisees had never been particularly fond of the rebellion. Without Christianity, they would not have suffered as many defections, leading to a stronger party that could have possibly set their own agenda, which would mean over time an increasing likelihood of negotiation with the Romans. In my scenario, I use the anarchy in Jerusalem as the stage where the Pharisees trade access to Jerusalem to the Romans in exchange for a preservation of the Temple.

2) It is possible that Judaism as a whole would have been stronger as they wouldn’t be concerned with anti-Christian polemics which forced them in OTL to give up the Septuagint and Philo. By maintaining these, they would likely have a broader appeal outside of Palestine, especially if they later gave up the requirement of circumcision.

3) Religious plurality would have dominated, with the latest eastern mystery religions being popular in the cities. Many of the most popular religions would incorporate anti-material world strains which would have lead to either extreme indulgence or extreme denial on the part of their adherents. There would be more focus on religious “tolerance” without much of the religious bickering that occurred post-Constantine.

4) Without the outlet of religious agitation, there is more likely to be more regionalism and personal agitation, leading possibly to a more instable realm or more decentralized realm.

5) Invaders would likely continue to use Roman infrastructure and civil service but would keep their own culture, leading to less cultural assimilation overall (though some leaders would copy the conquered). It is highly unlikely that they would care about Plato or Aristotle, or the like, so if the right conditions are met, there is a good possibility of completely losing Greek and Roman knowledge and art (without the Catholic Church to preserve it). As a result, the “Dark Ages” would be a lot darker and will last a lot longer.

6) Without Christianity, Islam most likely wouldn’t form. The Arabs probably would still create an empire, though without religion holding it together it wouldn’t last long.

etc., etc.

 

[carmen510]

Maybe if Romans began persecution and genocide of Jewish people, then Christianity might not have been born. (Jesus was a follower of Judaism)

Maybe if Judaism never rose? Or perhaps Buddhism?

 

[jeps]

Or, if Alexander Jannaeus (the last king who was a descendant of the Maccabees) was not killed so early, and by the time he died he had named one of his children a successor, they would not have taken their fight to the romans. Had the fight not been taken to the romans, the Hashmonaim would remain in power. They would have been more prone to eliminating the thorn in their side that was Christianity.