Berzerker
Deity
It's more accurate to say that Republicans are isolationist when a Democrat is president..
Bingo! I'd add the word "more" though
If Obama wanted to invade Iran we'd probably see plenty of GOP support.
Amusing, an anti war Republican
- Thread starter otago
- Start date
Bingo! I'd add the word "more" though
If Obama wanted to invade Iran we'd probably see plenty of GOP support.The fallout from the Vietnam war in the 70s.
That doesn't make any sense. Yes, it started with a Republican president in office, but it's not as if the Democrats were unilaterally opposed to the war, and it's not like they did anything to end it (LBJ expanded it). Nixon was the one mainly responsible for getting the U.S. out of Vietnam, and he incorporated it in his platform.
You're forgetting what the 70s were like. It didn't really last all that long. But there really was a turn away from all things military by a large number of Democrats. What's often forgotten is that it had played itself out before Carter left office.
I disagree. When was the last time you saw Democrats stand unilaterally (Or as close to it as you can get) opposed to a war or military intervention?
(And, no, the current Afghan and Iraqi wars don't count, since Democrats were just as eager as Republicans to go to war.)
Which part of "it had played itself out before Carter left office" did you not read?
Miles Teg
Nuclear Powered Mentat
Short version? The "nonsense" was actively spread by Republicans looking to be seen as tough on foreign policy. While their are certain traditions within the Republican party that dislike this electoral posturing, they have been and remain a distinct minority,
Long version? It goes back to the Cold War. While during it's early years we had isolationist Republicans (the Taft wing of the party) and pacifist Democrats (The Henry Wallace wing), by the time of Nixon's presidency (and the Southern Strategy, and the hippies), the Republican party firmly scooped out a place for themselves as a party of hawks, both in practice, and to an even greater extent as a meme. This isn't something that got shunted on to them by liberals, it's a label that Republicans actively sought out to improve their electoral chances. Every one likes a man's man and all that.
Democrats meanwhile, have been left out in the cold. They occasionally flirted with a more pacifist ideology popular with some of the base, but when they did, it just didn't work. The problem is that you're trying to view things in terms of "war party vs peace party", as opposed to "eager to use force party vs somewhat reluctant to use force party", which would be a more accurate synopsis of American politics.
We're seeing that today. The last Republican administration for example, represented a battle royale within the party not between hawks and doves, but between realist hawks and idealist hawks. I don't think I have to say who won that battle.
And in case anyone's missed it, the majority response among Republicans hasn't been to castigate Obama from an isolationist, "bring our boys back home" angle, but to harp on the time-lines and preconditions he set up.
Berzerker
Deity
That aint true, the Dems were more divided over invading Iraq and the GOP was accusing critics of all sorts of evils for not supporting Bush's war. And Kennedy/LBJ were in office as Vietnam became a war, not a Repub (unless you wanna include Ike for laying some of the groundwork).
Wasn't it Eisenhower who got out of Korea and Nixon who got out of Vietnam?
Korea had been over for a while and we still left a pretty sizeable force there. Nixon expanded the war in Indochina.
Quackers
The Frog
Well the Korean war was over in July 1953 which was when Eisenhower was in officer so it is safe to say Eisenhower organised it and wanted that ceasefire. A large forcfe remaining is good incase the Commies try to take over the rest of Korea. Nixon had decreasesed troop strength from 543,000 to 0 by 1973. The percieved Republican image as vicious warmongerers couldn't be further from the truth.
PredatorFett
steam user
Dems still don't understand; "Republicans" hold no common ground in Washington, the party itself is as polarized as Congress itself.
Once the Chinese crossed the Yalu, the war was destined to be stalemated at the original line. It was and the remaining fighting was largely a formality until an official ceasefire could be reached.
Eisenhower agreeing to the ceasefire is not some great testament to his love for peace. See: Guatemala
Meh, there was agitating in Pyongyang AND Seoul for unification.
Only because of overwhelming public opinion against the war. Nixon secretly bombed Cambodia (this included the coup of Sihanouk), resumed heavy bombing of South and North Vietnam, and invaded Laos.
Vicious warmonger pretty much ja.
Ecofarm
Deity
I've supported invading Iran for over a year. Do you think there is a republican congressman that supports it? I doubt it.
So wait. People are saying that they do not think there is a general correlation between support for war and support for the GOP? I mean, sure, there are those that support war on both sides, and those that don't support war on both sides, but as a general correlation, I would've thought it obvious. 
Ecofarm
Deity
Support for the war /= hawk. Hawks start wars, thus ending diplomacy. Tons of people are willing to support wars once started, for various reasons... that's mundane.
There are more hawks in the repubs than dems. There are more war supporters in the repubs than the dems.
Only ~4% of dems would pull out now, so let's not say supporting war is a republican thing. Obama just escalated Afghanistan.
Anyway, there are very few hawks.
There are more hawks in the repubs than dems. There are more war supporters in the repubs than the dems.
Only ~4% of dems would pull out now, so let's not say supporting war is a republican thing. Obama just escalated Afghanistan.
Anyway, there are very few hawks.
There are war Democrats and war Republicans. War Democrat here, and while I don't support invading Iran I do support letting Israel bomb it. Let them fly over Iraq maybe "shoot down" one Israeli plane and say oh well we tried to stop them. And let Israel take the fallout for that. Win for all involved.
