Ancestorialism

[Borachio]

the lovably eccentric French far-right

Jean-Marie Le Pen? And now his daughter Marine Le Pen?

You mean lovable as a euphemism, I am sure. I find them deeply troubling.

 

[strijder20]

Congratulation on reading the entire post, including the very next paragraph where I discussed that specific point. But I suppose I shouldn't let what I actually said get in the way of you getting a "funny" quip in.

I am not my ancestors. But my ancestors, their decisions, their actions, helped shape who I am, by making it so a person like me was born in the circumstances I was born in, in the family I was born in, in the culture I was born in.

Having the ancestors I do, who took the actions they did, is therefore a part of who I am.

Ah, but I read your post, and that was not supposed to be funny, I was a bit enervated, actually.
I clearly distantify myself from my ancestors and country. I don't see them as parts of my identity.
You may call individualism dangerous, but don't forget that globalisation is tearing apart the old structures, the social ties to country and ancestry which you speak of.

I see nothing wrong with ancestorialism they the same blood after all.

We all share pretty much the same DNA, if I recall correctly (if it is true that we share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees, then it has to be).

 

[Evie]

Ah, but I read your post, and that was not supposed to be funny, I was a bit enervated, actually.
I clearly distantify myself from my ancestors and country. I don't see them as parts of my identity.
You may call individualism dangerous, but don't forget that globalisation is tearing apart the old structures, the social ties to country and ancestry which you speak of.

And? Globalisation tearing apart the old social ties is a good thing how?

They're not a must have, and I'm all for people having the option not to define themselves by those ties, but I also think they're perfectly legitimate ways of defining oneself, and tearing them apart is not a good thing.

 

[Traitorfish]

Jean-Marie Le Pen? And now his daughter Marine Le Pen?

You mean lovable as a euphemism, I am sure. I find them deeply troubling.

Nah, those guys are pretty vanilla, basically just Nick Griffin with a faint odour of garlic. Doesn't even scratch the service of that great big jambalaya of crazy which is the French far-right.

 

[strijder20]

And? Globalisation tearing apart the old social ties is a good thing how?

They're not a must have, and I'm all for people having the option not to define themselves by those ties, but I also think they're perfectly legitimate ways of defining oneself, and tearing them apart is not a good thing.

I'll leave it in the middle whether it's hard or not, but I believe it's going to happen anyway, so I think it's better to adapt to the new situation rather than trying to preserve the old.

 

[Evie]

That's incredibly fatalistic and deterministic. Old traditions can adopt and adjust to new situations without being completely cast aside.

It's also a self-fulfilling prophecy. You believe that globalisation will destroy all old ties, therefore you sever your old ties and attack those who don't; therefore people sever their old ties. But at the end of the day, there is no necessary progression from "Globalisation" to "destroying social ties", except in the head of a few people who then spread the idea.

Personally, I firmly believe that both old forms of social ties and new forms of social ties can coexist in a global world. I am a member of CivFanatics (a form of tie), law student (another form of tie) at the university of ottawa (another form), who grew up in Beloeil, Québec (yet another), who belongs to certain families (another form of ties). None of them contradict one another, and all those ties (and many others) together add up to who I am. The existence of new methods of forming social ties on a global scale (such as CivFanatics) does not necessitate the end of more local and historical forms of social ties.

 

[Borachio]

Nah, those guys are pretty vanilla, basically just Nick Griffin with a faint odour of garlic. Doesn't even scratch the service of that great big jambalaya of crazy which is the French far-right.

Yes, you're right. And that's what makes me think they are the really sinister bunch. The trouble is they make racism sound reasonable.

Nutters are just nutters. A fringe group, easy to recognize. At least I hope so.

 

[strijder20]

That's incredibly fatalistic and deterministic. Old traditions can adopt and adjust to new situations without being completely cast aside.

Oh, no, I mean that I think it's pretty likely to happen - not that it's bound to happen. And yes, ties as nationality or ancestry won't be completely destroyed at all - not in the near future - but it's an enormous contrast compared to what they meant a century ago.

Yes, you're right. And that's what makes me think they are the really sinister bunch. The trouble is they make racism sound reasonable.

Odd, we've got a party like that in our country too.

 

[King Kalmah]

This can be considered foolish, if the following are true.

You have never lived in what you call your "old country".

Factor in I was about two years old when the "old country" was "opened".My grandparents already had laid down roots here(California),but we always had relatives come over to visit us and the mother tongue was spoken quite extensively.

You have never been able to speak your "mother tongue".

I only learned english due to the fact that it was considered necessary for any kind of "good" life in America.The "old country" didn't have the best economy back when it was "opened" to the west.Plus consider the fact that trying to learn two languages at the same time isn't exactly a good idea...

I will say that before going to school as a child I could probably count to ten and speak a few sentences in my mother tongue(I spent a good deal of my early life with my grandparents)....

If both of these are true, your resolve can still be foolish if you're only moving to the "old country" because it's where you were born, not because of any cultural significance,

I want to move to the "old country" for economic,social,cultural and maybe even to enrich my quality of life.(alot of bad things happened in my youth so I want a new start)

Of course, if you were born in America and grew up speaking English, your "old country" is the USA and your "mother tongue" is English.

No one has ever brought this up.hmm well now that is a good observation...I will get back to you on that....

Help what? This is another thing that bugs me. When "ancestorialists" can't stop talking about wherever they come from. It isn't just an "ancestorialist" thing; even immigrants if they can't shut up about it are annoying, too.

Well if they escaped communism it was most likely Eastern Europe so I thought I was helping you understand why I am here instead of over there....(redistribute the land and make you work elsewhere/draft you in the army I think)

This doesn't make any sense. You say "return". These people would not be "returning" because they're not going to anyplace they've ever been! They're going to foreign land.

Okay you are correct I would not be returning,but consider this...

if my ancestors didn't have to flee I would be over there and not here so it is kind of important/relevant to the discussion.

My family has property over there and if civil war were declared or something weird here in the states it is considered a "back up plan".My grandparents wanted us to have an escape plan since they were running into the unknown and didn't want us to have to do the same(I'm not saying I'm a farmer..I'm as much a farmer as a short order cook is a farmer...but I can learn to love the land and all that good stuff plus if I know the language it won't be all that unknown)...

What good would "carrying the flame" do? All that serves to do is make people feel special and unique for no good reason. It's inflating their ego, which makes them obnoxious if anything.

Now this hit a nerve...you think I'm trying to be an elitist/inflate my ego because my ancestors were born in a Eastern Europe country?

Well yeah you found out alright...sarcasm alert....

my "old country"...excuse me the nation I hope to go to isn't some great land full of magic and cancer free food its as bad as any place,but as good as any place.It has good people and bad people just as America does...

and the same for your "mother tongue".

I wish to learn my "mother tongue" for multiple reasons.My grandma has very bad Dementia and alzheimer's disease.Studies have shown that not only do the people who have the disease remember more when you talk to them in their first learned language,but they also function better mentally when in an environment such as one where every family member can speak to the patient.I kinda feel guilty that I can only speak english with her and she has trouble following me since her english has gradually gotten worse over the years.

I want to be able to speak the language and not look like a complete imbecile when I go abroad.I want to know what I am eating.Paprika is hot.The "old country" likes Salmon,Trout and other fish in many stews(I dislike fish,allergic to shellfish).So yeah health reasons too....Plus what if I meet a cute girl and we can't exchange phone numbers?

I hate people that go over to Asia and they can't even speak the language...then go on to make Americans look like fools because they like anime or they have a distant relative who was a samurai/communist sympathizer who gave Mao some food and water...

So maybe I want to learn the mother tongue to avoid the "Ignorant American" label...

 

[ParkCungHee]

You just are annoyed that I have fili rights because of my ancestors and you don't.