AND SVN Build Thread

[JosEPh_II]

Thank you 45* and a to you and yours.

JosEPh

 

[Rezca]

Rev667

• Increased espionage cost for civics/religion switch and to spread anarchy, reduced espionage cost to steal techs
• Cog and galleass minareasize = 20 so that you can't build them on small lakes
• Dualism/monotheism split on tech tree, now they're correctly displayed
• New Minimum City Border option; you can now choose if you want those 8 tiles around the city always owned by that city
• Fixed CustomizableDomesticAdvisor (thank you Sgtslick!)
• Fixed pedia for factory improvement (thank you nionios!)
• Enhanced tech diffusion
• Modern/Transhuman era balancing
• Snow Castle has economy advisor not military
• Fixed prerequisites for Ecological Engineering (as per Vokarya's advice)
• Anti missile battery now correctly goes obsolete with Arcology Shielding, not Arcology (thank you Rezca!)
• Corrected some blockade code (more will follow)
• Bombers from modern era onwards can now do 100% damage (was limited to 50% until now)

I'm still working on balancing the game and on that bug with ships blockades, but since it could take some time, I've delayed it to the next revision.

Happy New Year everyone!

Awesome list of changes and additions

Testing a game with Warlord/Epic/Huge right now (Tech Diffusion ON, even though I typically play with it off - I want to see how it affects gameplay now ) ^^



Have a wonderful NewYears as well~

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Looks like I have a bug with 667, I've just taken a city from the Babylonians, who are more advanced in tech then me.

Its now awarded me about 750K science for the next turn suddenly, about 535x what I was researching at before.

Game is Eternity speed, Gigantic map, High to Low, Random planet generator.

Save is attached, in zip form.

Spoiler :

 

[Rezca]

I think that's just the new Tech Diffusion doing it's thing.

I had a few moments like that in my game, though not as extreme. I'd research a tech before any of the AIs and suddenly my competitor who was also researching it had several turns shaved off it immediately =/ Or maybe he had a natural increase in research. Couldn't tell. Everyone except a few OCC AI's are pretty much neck-to-neck when it comes to research and what technologies they have, with nobody but Asoka having a clear lead (He's got Gunpowder and is getting Metallurgury when no one else has gunpowder)

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I think that's just the new Tech Diffusion doing it's thing.

Correct; it's possible to scale it down, I've explained how in another thread but will do it again later. Anyway this is just what happens when you're too far behind the leading civ that you've met. Of course the same applies to other civs when you are in the lead. It's the only way to have civs stick close together in terms of techs and not having civs with archers when you reach nukes.

Try it for a few games, it should make more harder for everyone to go and raze AI's empires.

 

[Rezca]

Correct; it's possible to scale it down, I've explained how in another thread but will do it again later. Anyway this is just what happens when you're too far behind the leading civ that you've met. Of course the same applies to other civs when you are in the lead. It's the only way to have civs stick close together in terms of techs and not having civs with archers when you reach nukes.

Try it for a few games, it should make more harder for everyone to go and raze AI's empires.

So far I don't see too much wrong with it, except for one single case when Julius and I were both researching 'Perspective' (I wanted the Sistine so I could play with the new/corrected cultural borders) and after I finished researching it his turn count went from around 7 turns left to just one

I don't know if he popped a great person, adjusted something, changed civics, built some buildings, or if it was the fact that Asoka and I both had Perspective and no one else - but after I ended up researching it he got several turns shaved off it immediately

I still managed to get the Sistine, however only because I rushed it with cash - I would have lost it to Asoka by 3 turns (He had Perspective first after all) but while I was checking some stuff in the World Builder I saw he was 5 turns from finishing it and I still had 8 turns - so when I got out I just used the huge stockpile of cash I had to rush it. Cheap I know, but I'm not playing a too terribly of a serious game here


I can't say if the Tech Diffusion in its current state is too strong yet or just right, but I haven't had any serious problems as of now. Julius quickly gaining several free turns on a tech needed for a wonder *I* wanted - and was the reason I was skipping Gunpowder at the time - made me just a bit nervous. I'd really not want to lose out on wonders simply because I got their unlocking tech first and then an industrious civ with marble/stone/whatever got a free pass on the same tech the following turn because of that! (Julius isn't Industrious no, it was just an example ^^)
Basil's just researching Perspective now, some turns after Asoka, Julius, and myself got it - and he only needs eight or so turns on it. *huffs*, it took me almost 30 turns and that was with only Asoka already having it xD I wonder how quickly the bonus adds up when more than one person has the tech? Gunpowder for me is 19 or so turns with only Asoka having it, Perspective was more than 20 when no one had it (Shaved a few turns off when Asoka got it as I was researching)... Hm.

Everyone being in the same era I like though - no more crushing Medieval "empires" with Industrial/Modern armies!

ETA (A little late) That it really only looked like Ceasar got a ton of free turns on Perspective after I researched it. I've found that sometimes my research jumps a few turns at random moments even when it's a tech no one else has, and I don't know why. Something similar could hjave happened with Ceasar?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

How to scale down Tech Diffusion

So far I don't see too much wrong with it, except for one single case when Julius and I were both researching 'Perspective' (I wanted the Sistine so I could play with the new/corrected cultural borders) and after I finished researching it his turn count went from around 7 turns left to just one

I don't know if he popped a great person, adjusted something, changed civics, built some buildings, or if it was the fact that Asoka and I both had Perspective and no one else - but after I ended up researching it he got several turns shaved off it immediately

If you were more or less equal in techs, this was not a tech diffusion effect. Tech diffusion works only if you are at least 10% behind the tech leader.

I can't say if the Tech Diffusion in its current state is too strong yet or just right, but I haven't had any serious problems as of now. Julius quickly gaining several free turns on a tech needed for a wonder *I* wanted - and was the reason I was skipping Gunpowder at the time - made me just a bit nervous. I'd really not want to lose out on wonders simply because I got their unlocking tech first and then an industrious civ with marble/stone/whatever got a free pass on the same tech the following turn because of that! (Julius isn't Industrious no, it was just an example ^^)

Well, losing Wonders happens, that's how life goes
Frankly I've always found too easy to get almost all wonders before the latest revision. AI was able to get mostly some old wonders and those that I didn't want to build. I suppose this is one of the reason s why AI was lagging behind from industrial era onward. Now that AI can keep the pace in terms of techs, they can also build Wonders and often beat me to them. In turns, this leads in exploring new strategies. I was always able to build Christo Redentor, Tour Eiffel and Statue of Liberty. Now it's harder for me to get them all. I think it's better this way.

Everyone being in the same era I like though - no more crushing Medieval "empires" with Industrial/Modern armies!

That's how it's supposed to work! I'm glad you like it.

ETA (A little late) That it really only looked like Ceasar got a ton of free turns on Perspective after I researched it. I've found that sometimes my research jumps a few turns at random moments even when it's a tech no one else has, and I don't know why. Something similar could hjave happened with Ceasar?

It shouldn't but I'll have a look at it.

 

[Rezca]

I found several times techs would drop a few turns randomly, but I think they were ones that other people already had? Crop Rotation was one, but I'm not sure how many others had it. I had 14 turns, and when I got to 10 turns left it dropped to 8 on the following turn. No one else was researching it at the time (Most were researching Astronomy, Gunpowder, or Metallurgury - with the OCC civs trying to research Oil Painting) but I'm almost positive someone else had it regardless. I don't see how it'd drop two turns like that without warning - no cities had grown or starved during that time, and no one was celebrating "We Love the King" either.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I found several times techs would drop a few turns randomly, but I think they were ones that other people already had? Crop Rotation was one, but I'm not sure how many others had it. I had 14 turns, and when I got to 10 turns left it dropped to 8 on the following turn. No one else was researching it at the time (Most were researching Astronomy, Gunpowder, or Metallurgury - with the OCC civs trying to research Oil Painting) but I'm almost positive someone else had it regardless. I don't see how it'd drop two turns like that without warning - no cities had grown or starved during that time, and no one was celebrating "We Love the King" either.

I guess that's just tech diffusion + you being a little behind in techs in comparison to otherc civs. The more you fall behind, the more you get help in teching.

 

[Rezca]

I guess that's just tech diffusion + you being a little behind in techs in comparison to otherc civs. The more you fall behind, the more you get help in teching.

I see ^^

So far it's working just fine, the AI in last actually has all the techs as I do, and is trying to research Oil Painting at 200+ turns estimated left! (He lacks two techs Asoka has, who is the true tech leader right now)

That being said, I'd still need to play a few games to see if I really like it on or off, or if it's too strong for my tastes or not. I'm assuming though that in the next SVN testing phase that if it's enabled it has to be at it's default strength ^^ Would make Noble and up quite a bit more difficult I imagine (Much to my dismay Average player here!)

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I see ^^

So far it's working just fine, the AI in last actually has all the techs as I do, and is trying to research Oil Painting at 200+ turns estimated left! (He lacks two techs Asoka has, who is the true tech leader right now)

That being said, I'd still need to play a few games to see if I really like it on or off, or if it's too strong for my tastes or not. I'm assuming though that in the next SVN testing phase that if it's enabled it has to be at it's default strength ^^ Would make Noble and up quite a bit more difficult I imagine (Much to my dismay Average player here!)

I've always thought that Noble was way too easy, especially after you reach industrial era. Now it's more challenging without being impossible. Once we're done, levels above Monarch will really be hard. No more bragging about "I'm playing with Deity and it's waaay to easy to win".

 

[Rezca]

I've always thought that Noble was way too easy, especially after you reach industrial era. Now it's more challenging without being impossible. Once we're done, levels above Monarch will really be hard. No more bragging about "I'm playing with Deity and it's waaay to easy to win".

Un-modded Beyond the Sword's Noble was always a touch too difficult for me, and it took me some time to work my way off of Chieftan and onto Warlord. In fact, I didn't play Noble for more than two games in a row - and without constant world-buildering - until the Blitz Noble testing games you made a thread for!

I am getting better though, but slowly. Very slowly.

 

[JosEPh_II]

What are the Test parameters for the new version?

Still Noble/Quick/Large? Or new gamespeed?

JosEPh

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

What are the Test parameters for the new version?

Still Noble/Quick/Large? Or new gamespeed?

JosEPh

I'm not sure. Is it better Noble-Quick-Large or Noble-Blitz-Huge? I guess I'm more for the first one.
Anyway I would wait for an ETA for Vokarya's next revision before starting a new test

 

[Rezca]

I'm not sure. Is it better Noble-Quick-Large or Noble-Blitz-Huge? I guess I'm more for the first one.
Anyway I would wait for an ETA for Vokarya's next revision before starting a new test

Noble/Quick/Large gets my vote

Unless folks can pick one or the other and announce which they're testing?


On the new(?) cultural borders option...
Was very happy to see revolts in cities and borders moving again ^^
Only flipped on city (a barbarian one at that) and sent an Incan city into revolt (Razed it later when the Incans declared on me for bribing their capitol ) but it's more than I've ever been able to achieve prior to this change

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Noble/Quick/Large gets my vote

Unless folks can pick one or the other and announce which they're testing?

I'd prefer to stick to a single parameter change, at least for the moment. So I guess we will go with Noble-Quick-Large.

On the new(?) cultural borders option...
Was very happy to see revolts in cities and borders moving again ^^
Only flipped on city (a barbarian one at that) and sent an Incan city into revolt (Razed it later when the Incans declared on me for bribing their capitol ) but it's more than I've ever been able to achieve prior to this change

 

[JosEPh_II]

When I applied the new 667 to my 666 game and the new culture took affect I had a slew of border cities that went down as small as 2 tiles. I've had to crank the culture slider up to 25% to stabilize before I started to lose some of those cities. Man it's been sometime since culture has been this important and it's soooo much better than it was! A major portion of Civ IV gameplay is being restored to it's rightful position of importance impo.

Now if only the C2C team could see how important this is. <sigh>

JosEPh

 

[Rezca]

When I applied the new 667 to my 666 game and the new culture took affect I had a slew of border cities that went down as small as 2 tiles. I've had to crank the culture slider up to 25% to stabilize before I started to lose some of those cities. Man it's been sometime since culture has been this important and it's soooo much better than it was! A major portion of Civ IV gameplay is being restored to it's rightful position of importance impo.

Now if only the C2C team could see how important this is. <sigh>

JosEPh

Indeed - loving the "new" change~ Sistine is an absolute priority for me now, and woe to any AI that gets it before me

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Now if only the C2C team could see how important this is. <sigh>

JosEPh

Well, I really can't understand why they don't make it an option. It's a trivial change, no more than 4 lines of code added. Then anyone can play the game the way he likes it.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I posted in the General Discussion thread in C2C about this change and DH, God-Emporer and alberts2 have posted in response. alberts2 is working on AI and cleanup while Koshling is away. He's posted that he will make it a Game Option. DH wanted to know what it would affect and that it had to be there for a reason. Alberts2 replied that it was originally part of Fixed Borders but C2C does not use that part of FB anymore.

So I think it will be changed there too.

JosEPh